Thor : Love plus Thunder minus Comedy

[tremault]

I like the idea of aether causing the cancer but it could be told much more simply. The Kuleshov Effect.

You start with a flashback montage right? Then it cuts to Jane getting her scan. Instead of ending the montage on Thor peacefully contemplating then going to the scan, end on shots of Jane being taken over by Aether from Thor 2 as part of the montage, with an echoey scream sound or something unsettling sounding, with reverb that continues into the shot of her getting the scan.

You could even maybe replace the baby Thor shots with the quiet contemplation shot and start with that, as if the montage represents his memories or something. This would give space for Jane shots at the end and keep your timing from the beginning while getting rid of the baby. Two birds, one rearrange.

Thanks, some great ideas here. My primary concern there would be losing what I currently have set up. I have thor on the left closing his eyes, then I follow with Jane on the right who then looks to the left to the empty space where Thor was.
I really like the idea of having the aether accentuated like that, leading into Janes MRI shot... but that loses the focus on the love between them. Also, that intro song was meant to accentuate the accumulation of events contributing to Thor's melancholy. The Aether sequence could certainly have a place in there... perhaps it could be carried over in some other way?

 

[tremault]

I think parts of this scene could be an appropriate replacement for the baby thor sequence.

It might be effective to include some shots of the aether at some point in Jane's beginning scenes. I'll just do a quick render of a bit of foreshadowing that I already had in place...

 

[Kal-El]

I like the idea of aether causing the cancer but it could be told much more simply. The Kuleshov Effect.

You start with a flashback montage right? Then it cuts to Jane getting her scan. Instead of ending the montage on Thor peacefully contemplating then going to the scan, end on shots of Jane being taken over by Aether from Thor 2 as part of the montage, with an echoey scream sound or something unsettling sounding, with reverb that continues into the shot of her getting the scan.

You could even maybe replace the baby Thor shots with the quiet contemplation shot and start with that, as if the montage represents his memories or something. This would give space for Jane shots at the end and keep your timing from the beginning while getting rid of the baby. Two birds, one rearrange.

This. Makes perfect sense and should've been my first thought, hahaha Intercutting flashback shots of Jane being infected by the Æther, some shots of her getting her scans, ... . Could work wonders. Good idea

 

[Kal-El]

I think parts of this scene could be an appropriate replacement for the baby thor sequence.

It might be effective to include some shots of the aether at some point in Jane's beginning scenes. I'll just do a quick render of a bit of foreshadowing that I already had in place...

Replacing ugly baby Thor with flashback shots from previous films would go a long way in restoring credibility and actually keeping continuity.

I still don't think flashing eyes or red electricity is the proper way to go. Keep in mind that in most films this usually hints at possession. You're telling the audience that Jane might be possessed by some evil entity (we'd only know it's the Æther if you show flashbacks) and, once she repairs Mjolnir (no way she'd be chosen in this instance) it would set the bar for an evil Mighty Thor. In my opinion, you're threading a fine line where people might get utterly confused at the sudden reappearance of the Æther (as that's what they'd make of it).

It might not be to your liking but I'd take the suggestion of @addiesin in consideration. It's a better option than what you have set up now. I know it might sting because it probably took effort and time to get where you are at this point, but that's the inevitability of editing. You'd hardly be the first person to chuck an entire concept in the bin.

 

[tremault]

What I'm getting here is that you don't think the scenes of the aether would fit anywhere else?

If so, then it's a choice between what is the focus of the movie, the lost love between Thor and Jane, or the personal situation of Jane and what drives her.

I'm not convinced that it has to be a hard choice between the two, as I still believe that I could add the shots of the aether a little later.

(don't worry about the glowing eyes, I take your points and will be removing them)

 

[VERsingthegamez]

I second following addiesins point. If used it can give the build up better.

 

[tremault]

What I'm getting here is that you don't think the scenes of the aether would fit anywhere else?

I'd really like to focus on this question because I feel a little conflicted right now.

I feel my thoughts and questions have validity here and also bear in mind that @lapis molari may be planning an edit focused on Jane.

I really need your support guys, I've presented my concern and presented potential alternative but I feel like I'm getting steamrollered.

 

[addiesin]

What I'm getting here is that you don't think the scenes of the aether would fit anywhere else?

If so, then it's a choice between what is the focus of the movie, the lost love between Thor and Jane, or the personal situation of Jane and what drives her.

I'm not convinced that it has to be a hard choice between the two, as I still believe that I could add the shots of the aether a little later.

(don't worry about the glowing eyes, I take your points and will be removing them)

To me the montage without voiceover feels like a "previously on" segment for all the Thor characters, which isn't a problem, but does imply all the info a viewer will need to know to be caught up for this story is there in that first sequence.

I think that's why people are getting hung up on the idea of re-introducing the Aether sometime later, it would feel like another trip back to the flashback well, so to speak. I think showing it later could work, but structurally that would turn it from setup to payoff, which could be seen as confusing or unnecessary without its own setup. Therein lies the problem, it would be more difficult to convey why the Aether is being shown if not done really quick and early.

Does that make sense? I know it would be a "kill your darlings" moment, so you feel resistance to it naturally, but I do think it would make it easier on yourself in the long run, if explaining the cancer is important to the edit.

Sometimes when someone gives me an idea I think might work but also might eff up my whole project, I'll duplicate the project and go wild chopping up the duplicate, knowing my main project is safe from the experiment in case it goes sour basically freeing me from the restrictions I would place on myself if I were worried about losing work and felt the need to only do things that could be easily undone.

But ultimately I'm just trying to explain things you may have already considered. Definitely do what feels right to you, it's your edit and I'm no authority on anything. No hard feelings if you don't like the idea, I get it.

 

[Fran_Garcia]

I still have not watched Thor: Love and Thunder.

I really think that the Æther being the reason of Jane's cancer is a very good concept.

The Kuleshov Effect could work, but I am not 100% with it.

Maybe you can insert some flashbacks from Thor: The Dark World when she is getting tested in the Scanner or maybe when she is looking to Mjölnir.

I think that the "red eyes" when she is on the computer do not work. It looks like she is "possessed".

 

[tremault]

To me the montage without voiceover feels like a "previously on" segment for all the Thor characters, which isn't a problem, but does imply all the info a viewer will need to know to be caught up for this story is there in that first sequence.

I think that's why people are getting hung up on the idea of re-introducing the Aether sometime later, it would feel like another trip back to the flashback well, so to speak. I think showing it later could work, but structurally that would turn it from setup to payoff, which could be seen as confusing or unnecessary without its own setup. Therein lies the problem, it would be more difficult to convey why the Aether is being shown if not done really quick and early.

Does that make sense? I know it would be a "kill your darlings" moment, so you feel resistance to it naturally, but I do think it would make it easier on yourself in the long run, if explaining the cancer is important to the edit.

Sometimes when someone gives me an idea I think might work but also might eff up my whole project, I'll duplicate the project and go wild chopping up the duplicate, knowing my main project is safe from the experiment in case it goes sour basically freeing me from the restrictions I would place on myself if I were worried about losing work and felt the need to only do things that could be easily undone.

But ultimately I'm just trying to explain things you may have already considered. Definitely do what feels right to you, it's your edit and I'm no authority on anything. No hard feelings if you don't like the idea, I get it.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I've done a little experiment putting the aether clip at the moment where she falls asleep in her lab, but I do feel like it's making it 'all about that' whereas the main reason I wanted to include it was to give an explanation of how mjolnir is 'revived'. Aside from that, I think making it a big plotpoint may instil in the viewer an expectation for it to show it's face later in the movie. it's like foreshadowing without the payoff. I think that is what you're alluding to? having that in there just before the shot of her in the MRI does work as punctuation, it is like... aether *and then* cancer. so the narrative there works. but this is a focus on Jane that I don't necessarily want when looking at the whole balance. as lapis molari said in his topic, my edit is about making a better thor movie rather than making a mighty thor movie.

I really think that the Æther being the reason of Jane's cancer is a very good concept.

Thanks, yes I like it.
So I'm getting a lot of value from the idea of including jane + aether in the 'previously on' sequence as Addiesin eloquently described it
I don't want it at the end though because I do really want to accentuate the relationship over Jane's personal struggle. I do however think it could work to have a clip of Thor helping Jane when she is possessed by the aether.

This could be a philosophical issue right here, whereas I would lean towards the 'being together' aspects of this story, I recognise that many people will favour the 'hero' s journey' aspects. I think I can satisfy both to some degree if I use a clip of both jane and thor and the effects of the aether.


edit:
red eyes are gone.

 

[addiesin]

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I've done a little experiment putting the aether clip at the moment where she falls asleep in her lab, but I do feel like it's making it 'all about that' whereas the main reason I wanted to include it was to give an explanation of how mjolnir is 'revived'. Aside from that, I think making it a big plotpoint may instil in the viewer an expectation for it to show it's face later in the movie. it's like foreshadowing without the payoff. I think that is what you're alluding to? having that in there just before the shot of her in the MRI does work as punctuation, it is like... aether *and then* cancer. so the narrative there works. but this is a focus on Jane that I don't necessarily want when looking at the whole balance. as lapis molari said in his topic, my edit is about making a better thor movie rather than making a mighty thor movie.


Thanks, yes I like it.
So I'm getting a lot of value from the idea of including jane + aether in the 'previously on' sequence as Addiesin eloquently described it
I don't want it at the end though because I do really want to accentuate the relationship over Jane's personal struggle. I do however thing it could work to have a clip of Thor helping Jane when she is posessed by the aether.

This could be a philosophical issue right here, whereas I would lean towards the being together' aspects of this story, I recognise that many people will favour the 'heroes journey' aspects. I think I can satisfy both to some degree if I use a clip of both jane and thor and the effects of the aether.


edit:
red eyes are gone.

Right your thinking makes sense to me, and keep in mind my suggestion has very narrow focus and purpose, "efficiently explain Aether caused cancer". It does not come from a place of consideration for the overall themes of the edit, it's simply an answer to the question "where's the cancer from" and if that question doesn't get asked or if the answer isn't important to the themes of your work, then it's kind of an irrelevant idea anyway.

 

[tremault]

Let's try this

 

[Fran_Garcia]

For me, it is working good.

The question is: Will people relate the Æther flashback with the cancer?

 

[tremault]

For me, it is working good.

The question is: Will people relate the Æther flashback with the cancer?

Honestly, the first time I saw this, I personally thought the aether was the cause of it, but I feel like it's not of import. There is a scene later on that shows she has a family history of cancer (?), so it's either or.

 

[Fran_Garcia]

Honestly, the first time I saw this, I personally thought the aether was the cause of it, but I feel like it's not of import. There is a scene later on that shows she has a family history of cancer, so it's either or.

You are right.

But I think it will work. By adding the Æther flashback people will relate it with the cancer.

And also it is a good addition because it shows that Thor has always cared about Jane.

 

[tremault]

Ok the ending credits. as gutted as I am to lose my montage, this works. It also doesn't bring up armageddon for people and that is important. It doesn't conjure up Armageddon, right?

I think this is the first draft then?

I think I'm satisfied to call this a first draft. I'll render my whole timeline now.

who wants to give it a test view when done?

 

[Editzilla]

Let's try this

Ok the ending credits. as gutted as I am to lose my montage, this works. It also doesn't bring up armageddon for people and that is important. It doesn't conjure up Armageddon, right?

I think this is the first draft then?

I think I'm satisfied to call this a first draft. I'll render my whole timeline now.

who wants to give it a test view when done?

Much better on both. Though if I have to nitpik, maybe have the piano opening to Remember Me playing during the ending scenes? And then have a flash to white after the shot with Love leading to the title right when the guitar kicks in?

Of if that's not possible, have it flash to white right before the title and after the black screen to give a bit more impact to the title screen.

 

[tremault]

Much better on both. Though if I have to nitpik, maybe have the piano opening to Remember Me playing during the ending scenes? And then have a flash to white after the shot with Love leading to the title right when the guitar kicks in?

Of if that's not possible, have it flash to white right before the title and after the black screen to give a bit more impact to the title screen.

It needs time, it's an emotionally heavy scene. flash to white is certainly a possibility. maybe. That title fades in from black so to have the title come from white.... that's tough... although, essentially, it's the same thing in terms of chroma and contrast ratio... so I would merely need to change the luminosity on a curve... ok yes I can try that.
I'll wait until I get some full views though. Draft 1 is awaiting any takers?

 

[VERsingthegamez]

It needs time, it's an emotionally heavy scene. flash to white is certainly a possibility. maybe. That title fades in from black so to have the title come from white.... that's tough... although, essentially, it's the same thing in terms of chroma and contrast ratio... so I would merely need to change the luminosity on a curve... ok yes I can try that.
I'll wait until I get some full views though. Draft 1 is awaiting any takers?

 

[Gieferg]

"Remember me" at the end works good, the song at the opening I do not like (that vocals, ugh...), but that's simply matter of taste I suppose.