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Warbler said:
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Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS WITHIN)
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TomH1138
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Zamros said:
I would think it would be her overall connectivity to the Force, not her rank within the Order, that would allow her to come back as a Force "ghost"/voice.
Then again, I don't know what her actual line was. If she said, "Rey, be a Jedi like me," then yeah, that would be weird.
Zamros
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Warbler said:
In the movie itself they described it as a transfer of life force from one being to another. Luke couldn't force heal himself because that's not how force healing works. Why not Yoda? Luke was focused on other stuff, by the time he returned to Yoda he was already dying, hard to transfer life force when there isn't much left.
Palpatine didn't want to force heal Anakin, the entire point of the vader suit is to keep him in constant pain in order to strengthen his connection to the dark side.
Anakin seemed pretty done at that point, I don't think he wanted to live anymore, even if Luke did.
matrixgrindhouse
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Regarding Force healing: my interpretation is that it's simply not something that the characters we've seen in the other movies knew about. Rey had been studying the sacred Jedi texts from that island for the better part of a year - who knows what lost mysteries of the Force were contained within that tome? It's been a staple of the Old Republic video games, for whatever little place in canon they still hold, and those are set thousands of years before the movies. It's not unreasonable to imagine some arts were lost to time, only to be rediscovered in the original manuscript later. Even Yoda admitted that he wasn't terribly enthused about reading that material. Likewise, Kylo's sudden knowledge of the technique likely stems from his bond with Rey. This explanation at least makes enough sense to me to cover all potential "why didn't they just use that before"? plot holes.
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Warbler said:
- Because Luke, like the audience, does not know that's a power that could eventualy be real.
- I'm not sure a Sith can really Force heal someone else but in the case of Vader, the Emperor wanted Anakin to suffer (cause it keeps the dark side alive) and simply be someone else than Anakin Skywalker.
- There are also the fact that, even in real life, people are not always doing the "logical thing"at the moment they could. So I'm always having a hard time considering those kind of questions ("why din't that character do that instead") as real plot holes. A plot hole, to me, is not a character not making something he could; it would more be a character making something he can't.
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That's not even a plot hole, that's a character hole.
Warbler
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A couple of questions on lightsabers. How is that Luke's old lightsaber is working again in TROS? I thought was destroyed at the end of TLJ? Also whatever became of Luke 2nd Lightsaber, the green one he used in ROTJ? Why Rey bury Luke and Leia's lightsabers? Couldn't she use them, with training other Jedis?
matrixgrindhouse
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Warbler said:
Rey had the remnants of Anakin's blue saber at the end of TLJ, including the Kyber crystal. That, coupled with the sacred Jedi texts, and Leia's guidance, allowed her to repair it. I think there's a new black horizontal band in the middle to indicate the repair, but I could be mistaken.
Luke's green saber is MIA. We saw it twice in flashbacks, once when training Leia, and when Luke's moment of instinct told him to
Rey buried the Skywalker family saber along with Leia's at the Lars homestead to show respect to her two mentors. Having become one with the Force, there were no bodies to bury or cremate. It's also her way of making peace with the past. Their struggle, the struggle against Palpatine that had been waged for decades if not longer, had come to an end. She has her own saber now, a yellow one. Since she has the materials and know-how to forge her own, one can only assume that if and when she trains a new generation of Jedi, they, too, will be taught to make their own.
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well this is the dumbest explanation for cutting an actor out of a movie ever: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/star-wars-screenwriter-claims-kelly-193231864.html
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My two cents: TRoS is not a good movie. The writing is clumsy, the narrative is haphazard, and most of the emotional beats fall flat. It does the one thing I most asked it not to do - redeem Ben Solo. As a season/series finale sort of movie, it doesn't hold a candle to Return of the King, Endgame, or even Return of the Jedi.
BUT, while I harrumphed and rolled my eyes lots of times, unlike the previous two Episodes, I wasn't actively bored and contemptuous of the goings-on. Yes, many things still make no sense at all (Kylo figuring out Rey was at Burning Man and getting there in an hour or two, tops), and yes, Fisher's scenes were weird and off-putting, but... Ben's redemption kinda worked for me. Not the Ben/Rey kiss - blergh - but at least this movie had a compelling antagonist in Palps, even if his humongous armada was completely absurd even by ST standards. (Why hadn't it been used before? Who was gonna crew it?!)
As I expected, we still got zero explanation for why Ben was so tempted by the Dark Side that he became a school shooter beyond "Palpatine's behind it all!", and when he and Rey had their saber duel, I was trying to figure out why they were even fighting, since Rey needed him to tell her where Planet Icicle was, and he'd pretty much admitted his love for her. But, as far as non-answers go, I guess "Palpatine's behind it all!" is as good as it gets. As RLM observed of RotS, at least this movie gives us a truly hissable villain who takes tangible delight in being evil in Palps, unlike boring ol' cranky Snoke.
In conclusion, I've long ago banished the PT from my head canon, and consider this ST a confused, slapdash failure. TRoS is a mediocre movie, which makes it the best of the three by default, but that's nothing worth celebrating, especially when this finale is just as much of a JJ-ified rehash of RotJ as we all expected it would be, complete with a mostly pointless first third. Star Wars movies are dead; long live Star Wars movies and Disney+ shows. Now, where's our Doctor Aphra flick?!
TFA: C-
TLJ: C (adjusted from my original grade of C+)
TRoS: C+
BUT, while I harrumphed and rolled my eyes lots of times, unlike the previous two Episodes, I wasn't actively bored and contemptuous of the goings-on. Yes, many things still make no sense at all (Kylo figuring out Rey was at Burning Man and getting there in an hour or two, tops), and yes, Fisher's scenes were weird and off-putting, but... Ben's redemption kinda worked for me. Not the Ben/Rey kiss - blergh - but at least this movie had a compelling antagonist in Palps, even if his humongous armada was completely absurd even by ST standards. (Why hadn't it been used before? Who was gonna crew it?!)
As I expected, we still got zero explanation for why Ben was so tempted by the Dark Side that he became a school shooter beyond "Palpatine's behind it all!", and when he and Rey had their saber duel, I was trying to figure out why they were even fighting, since Rey needed him to tell her where Planet Icicle was, and he'd pretty much admitted his love for her. But, as far as non-answers go, I guess "Palpatine's behind it all!" is as good as it gets. As RLM observed of RotS, at least this movie gives us a truly hissable villain who takes tangible delight in being evil in Palps, unlike boring ol' cranky Snoke.
In conclusion, I've long ago banished the PT from my head canon, and consider this ST a confused, slapdash failure. TRoS is a mediocre movie, which makes it the best of the three by default, but that's nothing worth celebrating, especially when this finale is just as much of a JJ-ified rehash of RotJ as we all expected it would be, complete with a mostly pointless first third. Star Wars movies are dead; long live Star Wars movies and Disney+ shows. Now, where's our Doctor Aphra flick?!
TFA: C-
TLJ: C (adjusted from my original grade of C+)
TRoS: C+
Zamros
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wilhelm scream said:
"The last thing we were doing was deliberately trying to sideline Rose."
Soooo they just accidentally sidelined her instead... brilliant.
And yeah, I don't believe this spin for a moment. Disney has a long history of this kinda crap.
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Zamros said:
Well this is the same man who wrote Batman Vs Superman.
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wilhelm scream said:
Who the heck looks at "Batman vs Superman" and "Justice League" and goes "Yeah totally that guy knows how to write a good script." ???
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Siliconmaster said:
The same people who thought it was a good idea to make a trilogy without planning it in advance and hire directors who had conflicting visions.
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Gaith said:
Really unnecessary man.
TomH1138
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Siliconmaster said:
Maybe Terry Rossio has skills in other areas. Avika Goldsman recovered from writing Batman and Robin to win an Oscar for A Beautiful Mind. Still, I'm baffled that the filmmakers said, "Our fan base is extremely divided right now. Someone who worked on the self-imploded DC film universe can fix that gap."
Lawrence Kasdan's deft writing skills were sorely missed in this movie.
TomH1138
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OK, I ended up writing 3 ½ pages, but much of what I was going to say has already been covered by other people, so I’ll just stick to points that I think are unique.
...You know what, as it is, this is still pretty long. I guess I'll post a Part 2.
--This wasn’t a make-or-break moment for me, but I wish we had gotten the 20th Century Fox logo at the beginning, now that Disney owns the rights.
--So after being secret for so long, why did the Emperor broadcast himself across the galaxy? And if Vader could call to Luke across the galaxy, why can’t the Emperor just call to Kylo Ren? It seems like getting Kylo’s attention was his only end goal.
--I’m surprised that others were unhappy with how Carrie Fisher’s footage was used in this movie. I thought it was pretty seamless, in addition to being respectful. And instead of just a pointless cameo, her story was used to move the plot forward (the emotional impact of her passing, as felt in the Force, was a key moment in Kylo/Ben’s turn). And kudos to Disney for managing to keep Harrison Ford’s cameo a secret!
--Since C-3PO is probably my favorite character, I’m thrilled with the way he was handled in this movie. He’s finally useful to the plot of a Star Wars movie for the first time since 1983! Not only does he move the plot forward, but he makes a selfless decision (“Taking one last look at my friends”), even though we all knew he’d get his memory back in the end. He even translates another alien’s language (this protocol droid hasn’t translated for anyone but R2-D2 in decades). His comic relief is also legitimately funny this time.
--It was said that John Williams was going to incorporate all the major themes from the previous movies into this one, but I didn’t really hear very much, except for the Imperial Theme once or twice, and the Force theme over and over again. My son also heard some of “Battle of the Heroes” in Rey’s training. Granted, I don’t want themes shoehorned in where they don’t belong, but it was a marketing gaffe to tell us to expect all these themes if they weren’t going to be there. At any rate, I enjoyed the new dark chorus that we hear during the Emperor’s scenes.
--Did it anyone else find it weird that the big alien with tentacles coming out of his head (who’s apparently named Klaud) was featured in early promotional art, and then showed up in the early moments of the film as if everyone already knew who he was...and then he vanished until the final celebration? I wonder if he was a casualty of the editing room. That said, I was worried that he’d be the new Jar-Jar, so at least that didn’t happen. But none of the new aliens introduced in these films made an impression on me.
--We made it through an entire trilogy without knowing where Coruscant is or what happened to it. There was a big city-like planet that got blown up in The Force Awakens. Why didn’t the filmmakers just have that be Coruscant? They had no plans for it otherwise, and that would have made the destruction more impactful on the audience.
--Rather than making Finn into another Force-sensitive person, I think it would have been much more interesting if Finn knew which ship to go after in the big battle because, as a former Stormtrooper, he has inner working knowledge of Imperial strategy. That’s a crucial part of his personality that was completely forgotten about, and would have been more interesting than just “I feel it.”
--So after being secret for so long, why did the Emperor broadcast himself across the galaxy? And if Vader could call to Luke across the galaxy, why can’t the Emperor just call to Kylo Ren? It seems like getting Kylo’s attention was his only end goal.
--I’m surprised that others were unhappy with how Carrie Fisher’s footage was used in this movie. I thought it was pretty seamless, in addition to being respectful. And instead of just a pointless cameo, her story was used to move the plot forward (the emotional impact of her passing, as felt in the Force, was a key moment in Kylo/Ben’s turn). And kudos to Disney for managing to keep Harrison Ford’s cameo a secret!
--Since C-3PO is probably my favorite character, I’m thrilled with the way he was handled in this movie. He’s finally useful to the plot of a Star Wars movie for the first time since 1983! Not only does he move the plot forward, but he makes a selfless decision (“Taking one last look at my friends”), even though we all knew he’d get his memory back in the end. He even translates another alien’s language (this protocol droid hasn’t translated for anyone but R2-D2 in decades). His comic relief is also legitimately funny this time.
--It was said that John Williams was going to incorporate all the major themes from the previous movies into this one, but I didn’t really hear very much, except for the Imperial Theme once or twice, and the Force theme over and over again. My son also heard some of “Battle of the Heroes” in Rey’s training. Granted, I don’t want themes shoehorned in where they don’t belong, but it was a marketing gaffe to tell us to expect all these themes if they weren’t going to be there. At any rate, I enjoyed the new dark chorus that we hear during the Emperor’s scenes.
--Did it anyone else find it weird that the big alien with tentacles coming out of his head (who’s apparently named Klaud) was featured in early promotional art, and then showed up in the early moments of the film as if everyone already knew who he was...and then he vanished until the final celebration? I wonder if he was a casualty of the editing room. That said, I was worried that he’d be the new Jar-Jar, so at least that didn’t happen. But none of the new aliens introduced in these films made an impression on me.
--We made it through an entire trilogy without knowing where Coruscant is or what happened to it. There was a big city-like planet that got blown up in The Force Awakens. Why didn’t the filmmakers just have that be Coruscant? They had no plans for it otherwise, and that would have made the destruction more impactful on the audience.
--Rather than making Finn into another Force-sensitive person, I think it would have been much more interesting if Finn knew which ship to go after in the big battle because, as a former Stormtrooper, he has inner working knowledge of Imperial strategy. That’s a crucial part of his personality that was completely forgotten about, and would have been more interesting than just “I feel it.”
...You know what, as it is, this is still pretty long. I guess I'll post a Part 2.
TomH1138
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And on we go...
Anyway, on to final overall thoughts. The sequel trilogy really needed to have one clear vision all the way through, whether it be JJ Abrams’ or Rian Johnson’s or Lawrence Kasdan’s or someone to just see it from beginning to end. As it is, we wound up with a weird mishmash, even though it was kind of a fun ride.
Ironically, the spinoffs are working much better so far, perhaps because they don’t have the entire Weight of the Saga hanging on them. They can just relax and be Star Wars. Rogue One, Solo (to a degree) and The Mandalorian have succeeded more in saying, “Here’s something that you already love, but with a fresh spin on it.”
--At first I thought not enough explanation was given as to why Palpatine was back, other than a vague reference to Revenge of the Sith. But then I remembered that the popular fan theory that Padme didn’t die of a broken heart, but because Palpatine sucked out her life force to save Anakin’s life. This is what Darth Plagueis had taught him. And what does the Emperor do in the climax of this movie? He tries to suck out Rey’s life force in order to keep himself alive. I bet he had been doing similar things over the last 30 years. (That being said, I wonder if the filmmakers would have bothered to bring Palps back if Snoke hadn’t been killed in TLJ.)
--It was an absurd piece of fan service to bring Warwick Davis as Wicket the Ewok back for a wordless cameo. (I think it would have made more sense narratively to have the broken piece of the Death Star on the moon of Endor, and have Wicket be the guide that leads the group there. This would have also been a chance to have someone finally saw “Ewok” onscreen in a Star Wars movie.) The only thing that made the cameo slightly better was learning later that the younger Ewok with him is Davis’ own son.
--Speaking of absurd fan service, why does Chewie get his medal now of all times? And why does Maz Kanata have it, of all people? How many other random things does she have? “Hey, anyone interested in the carbonite slab that Han Solo used to be frozen in? I just had it laying around!”
--My son pointed out that, in the Clone Wars series, there are Jedi Sentinel Guards with yellow lightsabers whose only job is to protect important things from the past and keep the memory alive. In the end, Rey has a yellow lightsaber and protects Luke and Leia’s Jedi artifacts. Nice touch.
--It was an absurd piece of fan service to bring Warwick Davis as Wicket the Ewok back for a wordless cameo. (I think it would have made more sense narratively to have the broken piece of the Death Star on the moon of Endor, and have Wicket be the guide that leads the group there. This would have also been a chance to have someone finally saw “Ewok” onscreen in a Star Wars movie.) The only thing that made the cameo slightly better was learning later that the younger Ewok with him is Davis’ own son.
--Speaking of absurd fan service, why does Chewie get his medal now of all times? And why does Maz Kanata have it, of all people? How many other random things does she have? “Hey, anyone interested in the carbonite slab that Han Solo used to be frozen in? I just had it laying around!”
--My son pointed out that, in the Clone Wars series, there are Jedi Sentinel Guards with yellow lightsabers whose only job is to protect important things from the past and keep the memory alive. In the end, Rey has a yellow lightsaber and protects Luke and Leia’s Jedi artifacts. Nice touch.
Anyway, on to final overall thoughts. The sequel trilogy really needed to have one clear vision all the way through, whether it be JJ Abrams’ or Rian Johnson’s or Lawrence Kasdan’s or someone to just see it from beginning to end. As it is, we wound up with a weird mishmash, even though it was kind of a fun ride.
Ironically, the spinoffs are working much better so far, perhaps because they don’t have the entire Weight of the Saga hanging on them. They can just relax and be Star Wars. Rogue One, Solo (to a degree) and The Mandalorian have succeeded more in saying, “Here’s something that you already love, but with a fresh spin on it.”