Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS WITHIN)

[Gaith]

Aye, good article. No, I don't think Rose was sidelined as a sop to the bigots and trolls - she's a mechanic who dislikes fighting in a story about fighting with several other mechanic heroes; what was the movie supposed to do with her, show her leading a veterans' PTSD support group? I actually would have gladly taken that over yet another pointless incursion to an Imperial ship, but that's not the kind of storyteller Abrams is. As for the complaints about her not being in many promos, there would have been just as many complaints had the previews deceptively portrayed her as having a large role. IMO, the problem with analyzing everything as a binary refutation of or pandering to the bigots and trolls is that it plays into their trollery by imbuing them with a perception of power that simply isn't supported by evidence. Or: when one wrestles with a pig, you both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Other thoughts:

- I'm glad the absurd guess that Rey would re-brand the Jedi as "Skywalkers" turned out to be wrong. A group that kept the peace for a "thousand generations" should be renamed after a family of two mass murderers and a deserter? No, thanks. TRoS is a stupid title, though, especially once one's seen the actual flick.

- Oscar Isaac is a bona fide movie star, and I'd like to see a movie about him doing swashbuckling adventuring, Star Wars or not. Hell, he could be Indiana Jones for a movie, or, better yet, a friend/contemporary/peer of Indy's. His comic/dashing moments in this flick are simply great.

- For all the talk of closing a "nine-movie saga," as much as Abrams clearly jettisoned as much of the PT as he could in TFA, I expected much more PT from this Episode. I fully expected Ewan McGregor to make an on-screen, and not just voice, appearance. This all turned out to be largely BS, however, with only an oblique PT reference or two, and no mention whatsoever of the Chosen One/Balance to the Force prophecy. This was for all intents and purposes the close of a six-movie saga, not a nine-movie one.

- Just what the hell was that multi-part hyperspace jump sequence at the beginning, other than a pointless, blatant lift from GotG Vol. 2?

- Revisiting my brainstorming ideas at the top of this thread, what's interesting is that I got about half of what I wanted, or I got several things I wanted halfway. We got some quests for ancient relics, but they were never really important anyway. We got Lando, and he didn't die, but he didn't seem to have a family or overtly happy ending like I wanted. We more or less got a real ending, with Rey walking off into the sunset, but not quite in the way I meant. And Ben was redeemed, which I didn't want, but... meh.

 

[TV's Frink]

Rose was in the final battle though.

But barely.

So....?

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

I will give them the benefit of the doubt that the cut Rose scenes were meant to strengthen Leia’s role. But other than that (or intentionally sidelining her) I have no idea why they wouldn’t have used Rose in place of Jannah. I mean other than Jannah saying she’s also a former stormtrooper there’s nothing she does in the movie that couldn’t have been done by Rose, thereby keeping the extraneous characters a bit more limited and creating more tie in between movies which was sorely needed.

 

[TomH1138]

Why does it matter who gave Chewie the medal, or even what medal it was?

The Rebels made an error by not giving him one.  Maz fixed it.

That doesn't seem incredibly random to you? Addressing this situation in a fan edit or a canon comic (both of which have already been done) makes sense. But paying this off without even a proper setup earlier in the movie (as to why this should happen here and now) felt really off to me.

 

[TomH1138]

OK, I ended up writing 3 ½ pages, but much of what I was going to say has already been covered by other people, so I’ll just stick to points that I think are unique.

Why are you using spoiler tags in this thread?  The thread clearly says spoilers within.  I think it can be safely assumed that anyone reading this thread either has already seen the movie or doesn't care about having it spoiled for them.

Oops, I forgot. Force of habit -- I've been dinged more than once for forgetting to post spoiler tags.

 

[Gaith]

 

I will give them the benefit of the doubt that the cut Rose scenes were meant to strengthen Leia’s role. But other than that (or intentionally sidelining her) I have no idea why they wouldn’t have used Rose in place of Jannah. I mean other than Jannah saying she’s also a former stormtrooper there’s nothing she does in the movie that couldn’t have been done by Rose, thereby keeping the extraneous characters a bit more limited and creating more tie in between movies which was sorely needed.

That's a valid argument, but it also blurs the line between legitimate artistic choice and real-world score keeping. Myself, I thought Rose was a lame character whose interception of Finn was completely ridiculous, and I'd rather see more of Jannah, who, judging by on-screen evidence, is a more impressive leader, not to mention warrior. That said, for real-world score-keeping reasons, I do hope KMT gets another shot at something cool, Rose Tico or otherwise.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

 

I will give them the benefit of the doubt that the cut Rose scenes were meant to strengthen Leia’s role. But other than that (or intentionally sidelining her) I have no idea why they wouldn’t have used Rose in place of Jannah. I mean other than Jannah saying she’s also a former stormtrooper there’s nothing she does in the movie that couldn’t have been done by Rose, thereby keeping the extraneous characters a bit more limited and creating more tie in between movies which was sorely needed.

That's a valid argument, but it also blurs the line between legitimate artistic choice and real-world score keeping. Myself, I thought Rose was a lame character whose interception of Finn was completely ridiculous, and I'd rather see more of Jannah, who, judging by on-screen evidence, is a more impressive leader, not to mention warrior. That said, for real-world score-keeping reasons, I do hope KMT gets another shot at something cool, Rose Tico or otherwise.

In my own TLJ edit Rose is reduced to a background rebel never mentioned by name. So I agree with you about how she was used in TLJ. That said, nothing her character did would preclude her from doing “impressive leader” or “warrior” stuff Jannah did, particularly given the elapsed time between movies. So, to me, creating a new character rather than giving that role to Rose only serves to underscore the point.

 

[TV's Frink]

Why does it matter who gave Chewie the medal, or even what medal it was?

The Rebels made an error by not giving him one.  Maz fixed it.

That doesn't seem incredibly random to you? Addressing this situation in a fan edit or a canon comic (both of which have already been done) makes sense. But paying this off without even a proper setup earlier in the movie (as to why this should happen here and now) felt really off to me.

Yeah it's a little random.  Do I care?  No.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

 

[TV's Frink]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

 

[Gaith]

A better question is, why is Maz even in this movie at all? Did she get bored of fighting trade unionists and/or running restaurants? And, if anyone should have given Han's medal to Chewie, why not Lando? Oh, because then Maz wouldn't have had anything to do. Wait, why is Maz in this mo-

 

[Canon Editor]

Has anyone heard about the Reddit leaks?
As skeptical as one may be, most of this seems too credible to not be true. Personally, the main evidence we have is the cast reacting all “ugh?” in interviews such as this.

It feels as if they realised they didn’t work on the movie they thought they were working on.

Here is the Reddit leak:

https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/_/fcu2ot5

 

[TV's Frink]

I have yet to see anything on reddit that "seems too credible to not be true."

 

[Zamros]

"This post confirms my biases so I'm going to take it as 100% fact" ~the entire comments section

There's some stuff in there that seems plausible, some stuff that is definitely true but only because it's a thing that happens with every film production ever (like the original cut being far longer), and a fair amount that is a biiiit of a reach.

I don't trust John Campea when he "leaks" shite from movie sets, I trust rando redditors a lot less.

EDIT: wow those comments are full of the exact kind of toxicity I remember from reddit; racism, sexism, homophobia, the whole shebang

 

[Zamros]

I will say that the following quote would make for a very interesting fanedit idea:

• Rey not only healed Kylo's face scar but she killed Kylo when she healed Ben. Kylo ceased to exist when Rey healed him. My source mentioned that some people assume it was Han Solo who healed him but that isn’t true and that wasn't Han Solo. That was Leia using her own memories as well as Ben's to create a physical manifestation of his own thoughts to nudge him towards what he needed to do. That was her own way of communicating that with him. And it wasn't possible without her dying in the process. She made the ultimate sacrifice for her son and this flew over people's heads with the Disney cut.

 

[Gaith]

Even if a lot of that reddit thread is true - and I'm perfectly willing to believe the Force ghosts were intended to be seen and not just heard, as well as that Abrams (who is paid obscene amounts of money to produce corporate-approved pablum) got his undies in a twist over studio interference - so what? We'd still have had the same bull**** plot about Sith daggers and 3PO's memory and "wayfinders" and a massive armada of secret Star Destroyers, right?

Whether one loves or hates The Last Jedi, I think we can all agree that Johnson wiped the slate clean, giving Episode IX the potential to go in a wholly new direction. Now, reasonable people can disagree over whether that's a wise narrative choice for a penultimate Chapter 8 out of 9 (or really 5 out of 6, because clearly neither Johnson nor Abrams give two s***s about the prequels), and reasonable people can disagree over whether Abrams should have come come up with an entirely new plot, rather than played the old hits once more. Myself, as much as I dislike TLJ and TFA, I do wish Abrams had risen to Johnson's challenge and made Ep. IX something new and unexpected - but, if Disney/LFL had wanted something new, they wouldn't have asked Abrams to come back at all.

So, maybe Abrams did shoot more scenes with Rey and Rose, and Kylo, and maybe he did want Poe and Finn to kiss, and maybe he did want to do a 3-hour movie in which to fit all these scenes, but the underlying point is that, in the broad strokes, he made the kind of movie that was ultimately released, because that's what he does, and that's why he was hired. Do I believe he might have found the process difficult? Sure, maybe. Do I believe Disney re-edited a bold and original vision on his part into something safe and obvious? Not for a second!

...

Also, a funny remark about Rose Tico (regardless of what one thinks of the character) quoted by Mr. Sunday Movies: "It's a shame Kelly Marie Tran died after the filming of The Last Jedi, but good on Abrams for using as much deleted footage of her as possible."

 

[TMBTM]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

Side note:
Maz is not giving Chewie "a medal". She's giving him Han Solo's medal that Leia was holding when she died.
So, sure, the hardcore fans all say "Chewie finally gets a medal!" but it's not like this medal is some kind of a reward or something. It's more of a legacy thing.

 

[Nic]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

Side note:
Maz is not giving Chewie "a medal". She's giving him Han Solo's medal that Leia was holding when she died.
So, sure, the hardcore fans all say "Chewie finally gets a medal!" but it's not like this medal is some kind of a reward or something. It's more of a legacy thing.

I never got ANY indication that's what was going on whatsoever.

 

[TM2YC]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

Side note:
Maz is not giving Chewie "a medal". She's giving him Han Solo's medal that Leia was holding when she died.

Oh yeah that makes sense.

It's best not to think about the whole droid thing, that way madness lies. It never made sense in the SW universe and never will.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

I mean giving the Wookiee a medal is kind of a hollow gesture when we still have droids—who have shown sentience, ability to feel pain and emotion—still kept in indentured servitude. Come on Maz, you’re better than that!

Side note:
Maz is not giving Chewie "a medal". She's giving him Han Solo's medal that Leia was holding when she died.

Oh yeah that makes sense.

It's best not to think about the whole droid thing, that way madness lies. It never made sense in the SW universe and never will.
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