Arrow

[steelio2006]

Thoughts on 3.03 - Corto Maltese.

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- It's nice that this season, we get to see Ollie traversing across the world a bit. (via Flashback or this little road trip episode).

- Was fun to see Ollie and team work outside of Starling City. Especially with their makeshift weapons. That part was really awesome to see how they could on the fly come up with weapons.

- It was also nice to see the training that Thea was undergoing. It actually gave hint of what Malcolm had to do when he left Starling City to train. Which in a way, it makes him appear to me like he's a 'Batman with a bow'. Not a bad thing at all.

- And seeing how far Diggle would go in order to protect his family, that's something that is really awesome to see. I could totally sympathize with him. And if I put myself in Diggle's shoes, I'd more than likely do the same thing.

Thoughts on 3.04 - The Magician

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- Good episode.

- It was nice seeing Nyssa again. And to see how far she'd go for her 'beloved'.

- Don't know what to make of Ra's just yet. But all can say is that he left a good impression with his brieft stint at the end of episode. Though, part of me wishes we could have gotten Liam Neeson back in the role (stupid Taken 3 for not allowing him to.)

- The fight between Merlyn vs. Ollie vs. Nyssa. That was pretty epic. And it was entertaining to see each of the characters get their little chance to shine.

 

[bionicbob]

...paraphrasing Ollie, "There is only one other prisoner on the island but he won't be much help".

Season four flashback plot line hint???

 

[TM2YC]

It has long been an irritation to me that this thread isn't about...

...purveyors of cult DVDs/BluRays...

...because it would be more interesting if it was. Just thought I should mention it :-D. Bye.

 

[MusicEd921]

3x15 - Nanda Parbat

I did not enjoy this episode. I think mostly because of the buildup of glowing reviews I had read hours before, but what I saw was a series low in my opinion. I am a diehard fan of this show, but why have a show about Green Arrow when it consistently rips off/adapts Batman story lines? There are a lot of Green Arrow stories to adapt and they could totally make that work for the show. I even think if they wanted to, they could do a flat out TV movie special where they can finally bring to life the SuperMax script that we've heard about for years (and just use other villains to replace the big ones like Joker). I'm not 100% familiar with the Quiver story written by Kevin Smith, but the Longbow Chronicles could be made if they wanted to pick bits and pieces and put it to screen.

Some have said that Thea telling everyone who'll listen that she killed Sara was annoying, but it didn't bother me much and I like that it looks like Laurel will be trained by Nyssa (I just hope it doesn't turn in to a CW romance because that craps all over the love Nyssa had for Sara IMO and it would be just poor writing).

I like Brandon Routh. Part of it is because I feel bad that he got shafted with how Superman Returns played out and that wasn't his fault. ATOM isn't doing it for me. Firestorm is so much more interesting and the chemistry between Ronnie and Stein would carry that show far. Right now, ATOM is turning into Iron Man which I don't have a problem with necessarily, but either do the shrinking stuff or move on to a new character if you want to keep this "grounded in realism" vibe.

A better WTF moment for this show would have been a cliffhanger of Dig getting mortally wounded leaving us viewers hanging and wondering if they would FINALLY bring in the Lazarus Pit.

Season 1 and 2 finales have been great, so maybe the writers are just biding time to kick things into high gear. If someone wants to do an edit of Arrow, plenty of material from Season 3 can go!

I'll be watching Arrow until the end, so excuse me for getting my first big rant about this show out there. I needed to vent a little lol!

Curious of [MENTION=4677]bionicbob[/MENTION] 's thoughts

 

[bionicbob]

Curious of bionicbob 's thoughts

I enjoyed the episode more than you did, but I too had issues with it, though I think they are slightly different than yours....lol.

But first, to address the Batman rip-off issue. While I agree the writers/producers have been borrowing heavily from the Bat mythos, it really does not bother me so long as it is done well. And I think the Arrow creators are doing a fantastic job. Also, this may be the closest we ever get to seeing a live action continuing Batman story/series, even if it is disguised as Green Arrow. For as amazing as the Nolan films were, they were not imo good Batman movies. In many respects, Arrow (which the creators have been honest about as being heavily influenced by the Nolan trilogy) is a better comic book adaptation than any of the six various Batman movies. And since Green Arrow began his life as a Batman rip-off (until he was reinvented by O'Neil and Adams in the 70s), it almost ironic that he is now telling better Batman stories than his big screen counterpart....lol.

While there are many great Green Arrow stories to mine (especially from the Mike Grell era ), the mainstream/tv watching reality is most of GA's stories and villains are not well known or iconic. To drawn the biggest audience interest, you to need to hook the audience with the most interesting villains. And let's face it, in the entire DC pantheon, the Batman and the Flash, have the largest and most exciting assembly of villains in comic book history. Deadshot is a Batman villain, who later gained greater popularity when included in the Suicide Squad. Deathstroke, was primarily the arch villain of the Teen Titans for decades, until he crossed paths with GA in the Identity Crisis.

Also, the Ra's Al Ghul storyline really does not surprise me, since the show writer's have been planting the seeds for it since season one with the reveal of Merlin's origin and then nurturing it with Sara's origin in season two. Honestly, there was only one direction for this story to go. I think for those not familiar with the Batman lore, the twist at the end of the episode with Ra's offer may have come as a surprise. For those of us more intimately familiar with the Batman version of events, I think things will become more interesting in the next few episodes as Ollie wrestles with Ra's offer. As Digg pointed out to Ollie, you can not save Thea's soul at the price of your own. And I think this is theme for season three for most of the characters. While this season may not seem as BIG or EPIC as season two, it does feel more important in terms of defining character as all our heroes are travelling down very dark roads right now, and what choices they make in the coming episodes will determine the fate of their souls.

Things I did not like about the episode was of course Thea.... groan.... But honestly, I think it is the actress more than the writing. Clearly, Thea is drowning in the guilt of killing Sara, and is trying to force others to punish her, though never succeeding -- from telling Laurel and being forgiven to confessing to Nyssa. Thea has always been a damaged soul, and now I suspect she is verging on self-destruction. It will be interesting how the writers deal with this.

Laurel going up against Merlin I thought was a smart scene. Laurel knows she is no match but she attacks him regardless. But unlike Thea, this is not self-destructive but being blinded by grief and anger. Laurel is learning very hard lessons on her hero's journey. Training under Nyssa is a clever way to speed her skill level so she can be more of an equal for season four with the rest of Team Arrow. I think the writer's are smart enough to avoid a Laurel/Nyssa love affair. But then again, this is the CW we are talking about.... lol

As a counter point, I thought the reveal of Roy secretly helping the slain police officer's family was well done. Since Ollie's "death", Roy has evolved into a much more interesting character.

I am still on the fence about the ATOM. I understand why the writer's are avoiding the Shrinking Powered Atom and that the fact originally, right up to the production of season three, Ray was supposed to be Ted Cord aka the Blue Beatle, but until I see an episode with the Atom fully revealed and in action, I will reserve judgement. But I do agree, Firestorm was very fun and well executed on the Flash. Of the two potential spin-offs, both have equal number of risks since neither is top tier character.

Back to Ra's -- I loved the continued references to him being immortal and seeing him in what I assume is the Lazarus Pit taking a hot tub... lol

Question: Since Ollie no longer has a jet, how did he get to Nanda Pardat the first time so quickly? lol

 

[bionicbob]

So the next DC hero spin off series is......

Firestorm AND Atom TOGETHER!!!!

But wait! There's more!!! The new series will be some sort of Team Up show, and will also feature Captain Cold and Caity Lotz, along with three other DC heroes. Though will Lotz be playing Sara ( now that would be a twist... a trip to the lazarus pit?) or an entirely new character?

Details are vague at this early stage, but I think it is a brilliant idea. Neither Atom or Firestorm individually are strong enough characters to support a series themselves imo but as members of some sort of Justice League or Brave & Bold show would be pure awesome sauce. Plus it would differentiate it from the other super heroes shows.

http://screenrant.com/arrow-flash-spinoff-atom-firestorm-captain-cold-canary-brandon-routh/

 

[MusicEd921]

Well [MENTION=4677]bionicbob[/MENTION], you gave me a better outlook on it and I'll back peddle a little by saying maybe it wasn't THAT bad, just a bit disappointing.

I'm still hoping that instead of going the route of every other channel with crossovers that usually has one character go to another show for an episode that they just make time to do a special made for TV movie that brings the TV Justice League together to take on a threat. It could have slight references to each show, but not feel like just a long episode of one show. Avengers carried itself fine without needing to tell Jane's story without Thor or what Pepper was up to when NYC was under siege. Same could happen for TV's Justice League. Bring them together and make it focus on their team up and not what Thea is up to with Iris while the League is coming together.

 

[Gaith]

I would not quite describe Amanda Waller as a super villain. In some ways, she is the Nick Fury of the DC Universe.

... Yeah, this Waller is certainly an extremist.

I'm not fully caught up yet; just watched "Canaries", but damn, now that we've seen her threaten to overdose Thea, we can certainly understand why she said to Ollie that he wanted to see her dead back at the end of last season - it sounded hyperbolic at the time, but not anymore. I'm glad the show hasn't forgotten what a creep she is, nor Merlyn, either, after a few hints that the Queens might be warming up to him a bit.

And a heartbreaking scene with - Captain? Commissioner? - I forget - Lance and Laurel there. Eesh.

Uh... Pretty in Pink, if you're pushing Ollie away these days, maybe not quite so much with the visions of the Promised Land? Not that I'm complaining, but... :-D

 

[Mark Moore]

Sheesh, a bunch of rude comments about Lotz in that article. I hope they bring Sara back to life (or use time-travel to undo her death).

 

[addiesin]

Sheesh, a bunch of rude comments about Lotz in that article. I hope they bring Sara back to life (or use time-travel to undo her death).

Or maybe everyone will finally realize Lotz was never Sara, and that she switched with Jacqueline MacInnes Wood after the boat accident.

 

[Gaith]

Things I did not like about the episode was of course Thea.... groan.... But honestly, I think it is the actress more than the writing.

Aw, I like Thea! I wish I had a little sister like that I could be an awesome big brother to, though I admit I could do without all the crazy drama and her banging skeezy DJ assassins.

But first, to address the Batman rip-off issue. While I agree the writers/producers have been borrowing heavily from the Bat mythos, it really does not bother me so long as it is done well. And I think the Arrow creators are doing a fantastic job. Also, this may be the closest we ever get to seeing a live action continuing Batman story/series, even if it is disguised as Green Arrow [...] And since Green Arrow began his life as a Batman rip-off (until he was reinvented by O'Neil and Adams in the 70s), it almost ironic that he is now telling better Batman stories than his big screen counterpart....lol.

And Batman was a Zorro ripoff, so it's not like he didn't have it coming. ;-)

To me, Arrow's Ollie is far more interesting than Bruce Wayne ever has been. Maybe it's just me, but I can never quite get over why a super-rich kid can't build a healthy life even after the unimaginable trauma of seeing his parents murdered. Doesn't he have family, or extended family that could take him in? If not, can't another elite Gotham family with children adopt him? I don't care if he's as cuddly as Michael Caine, a butler who calls you "Master Wayne" and "Sir" is not an acceptable parental substitute for a young boy, so Alfred should not be his primary caregiver. Also, if we understand his parents' murder to the moment at which Bruce becomes Batman, even if only at an emotional level, to me, that means that he never actually became a real man or adult; he's just a permanently emotionally stunted man-child. Ergo, IMHO, if Batman is treated as a serious character at all (i.e., outside of goofy 1960s shows), he should be an unstable and quasi-deranged half-psychotic at the least - as the Nolan films suggest, he escalates Gotham's villains by pushing them to ever-greater extremes, but to me, this makes Gordon/the police the heroes of the story, and Batman a chaotic anti-hero who can never be trusted, even if he means well and occasionally does help as well as hinder and aggravate.

Now, Arrow's Ollie, on the other hand, did have a chance to grow up before his inciting incident, and he became a lousy cad, and the fact that that haunts him, and he has to live with (and take shelter in) its repercussions, is to me far more dramatically interesting than Bruce's stunted man-child. When Bale's Bruce poses as a playboy, it's an empty gag for me because it's a completely phony act, whereas when Ollie hides behind playboy excuses in S1 especially, it's actually kinda poignant, because he has to hide how much he's grown. Also, the fact that he has a mother (for a while) and a little sister post-Incident makes him far more interesting and sympathetic than an orphan with a crush on his childhood neighbor and a butler (even as cuddly a butler as Caine). Finally, I care about Ollie because I can actually picture him slowly rebuilding a normal, post-hero life, or at least a healthy and open one, whereas when Bale/Bruce retires at the end of TDKR, I gave exactly zero craps because his character was a complete blank who I don't even think I'd enjoy having a beer with, whereas having a beer with Ollie sounds awesome.



... Now, as for the show at present, I'm digging it; S3 has really picked up. That said, Ollie's insistence on not killing is pretty weird when he happily brings his heat-packing buddy Diggle along. Uh... happily bringing a sidekick who kills people is totally a form of killing, dude!

As for the whole potential second spinoff series, I'm strictly meh on Firestorm, and though I love Sara Lance, I kinda hope she stays dead (this time), because we've had enough resurrections already and her second death has had a lot of meaning that'd be messed with if she actually came back. (That said, I keep an open mind, because I and Cenk Uygur are the co-fairest men in America.) I'm fine with the Arrow-verse keeping to two shows, the darker Arrow and lighter Flash; I don't need any more. Heck, I didn't exactly need Flash either, but it's been cool enough so far.

And I really hope Flash's General Wade isn't dead, because Clancy Brown is the man, and I want more of him. Is there a reason the new Army general from the Arrow flashbacks wasn't him? Too expensive, scheduling didn't work, future plans for the new character? Because I'd love to see Brown pop up on Arrow also, and become a recurring anti-heroes force across both/all shows.

Welp, I guess that's all I've got for now...

 

[bionicbob]

It looks like things are going to get a lot worse for Team Arrow before the season is done..... EPIC!!!

 

[bionicbob]

And just when you think this show can not get any darker..... wow!

 

[Gaith]

Two more eps left this season... Thought last week's was pretty meh, mostly setup for the climax, and I was seriously confused by Ra's speech about the rival League at the beginning; I thought he was going to sic Ollie on them right away. When Ollie seems willing to execute Nyssa and Ra's says he's eliminated all his rivals, I guess he wasn't counting this Dark guy as a legitimate rival, whereas he had intended for Nyssa to be his heir at one point, but again, I was confused.

Good to see the Alpha-Omega virus coming back in the present, but the all-action flashbacks did indeed get tiresome here. On the other hand, I appreciated finally getting several Felicity/Thea scenes, with the former taking on a distinctly sisterly/sister-in-law tone in that last one.

And now, since it's been a while, here's some of the latest and greatest from the depraved denizens of The AV Club:

 

[bionicbob]

I am guessing the rival Raz spoke of will be H.I.V.E., which has been teased since season one, and will be the Big Bad next season.

While I agree that this last episode, and the season in general, has been uneven in terms of the bigger arc, I have enjoyed the greater/darker character exploration. But I must admit, the way this last episode was done, I am uncertain if Ollie is just playing along with Raz with a secret game plan yet to be revealed or if he is actually brainwashed? I am assuming it is the former, as Ollie has continually displayed he is master strategist.

My bigger question is what are the writers going to do with Captian Lance? It is hard to imagine he will redeem himself and if he did, would I as a viewer buy the flip flop? Not to mention the Starlng City public?

Cool to see Katana is full costume in this trailer.....

 

[Gaith]

Oh, next season's big bad is definitely HIVE; Rha's even called them a hive during his speech in his wrecked hometown. (So, the League hated Merlyn for trying to destroy the Glades, but murdering your whole hometown is a sacred rite of passage for each new Rha's? Okayyyy...) And I highly doubt Ollie's faking compliance, but who knows.

 

[emphatic]

I'm growing more annoyed with the females on this show with every episode. I really miss Smallville's awesome girls.

 

[bionicbob]

So it was a Long Con after all..... Though the price Ollie will have to pay for his deception will be interesting.

The writers were juggling a lot plot lines in this key episode before next week's season finale, and I don't know if they were very successful on all of them.... The Thea/Roy subplot is now resolved, with Thea inheriting the Red Suit and based on the posted Trailer below, she will officially become Speedy -- though will she actually survive the finale, is another story?

The introduction of Katana and closure of the Maeso/Tatsu had some nice emotional weight to it. Though Ollie sending Katana to convince Team Arrow of his true motives really does not make much sense and Diggle pointed it out. It seems to be more a forced plot device by the writers.

ATOM brought some much needed fun to episode, he seems to be filling the role of Felicity right now... lol. Another not so subtle hint that Ray is working on a "small" idea for the suit.... maybe I am wrong, but maybe the Atom will be able to shrink in the newest spin-off series? After seeing the incredible CGI Grodd on Flash, and the flying Atom sequences, I think they could pull it off on a tv budget.

The Wedding lacked punch for me. Again it feels like the writers are jamming too much into these last couple of episodes and thus their full impact is getting lost in the clutter of story lines. It would have been more interesting and powerful if Ollie had joined the League around ep 13 or 14, have him appear to be evil longer and have the wedding earlier, to really sell the idea and explore the dynamic with Nyssa imo.

Felicty, my usual fave character, the one person who always believes in and speaks up for Ollie no matter what, has been reduced to shattered mess and I don't like it. I get what the writers are trying to do but still it does not sit right with me. ....oh, and did Ray just sign over part of the company to Felicty? Does that mean the return of Queen Consolidated? Had Ray abandoned his "STAR CITY" plans?

No Captain Lance two eps in a row? Very curious how they are going to resolve his storyline and his relationship with Ollie? And how will Arrow return to protect the city? Will Roy's name be cleared?

Here's the teaser for the finale, there are some spoilers....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3275570149&feature= iv&src_vid=JdqRSaL5Y-M&v=iGw0McDZR0M[/video]

 

[bionicbob]

Been mulling over the season 3 final all night, trying to decide what my final feelings on it are.... lol.

Much like the entire season, this final was very uneven.

THE UGLY:
A bio weapon is threatening MILLIONS of lives, but the Flash says "sorry, too busy to help, gotta go talk to a bad guy who is securely locked away in prison and not going anywhere". TERRIBLE WRITING by the producers. They made the Flash look like a self-involved douche bag lol. They should have just forgone the shared universe cameo or came up with a better reason for the Flash not helping (oh look, Central City is in trouble too.. gotta go...)

THE BAD:
The final showdown between Ollie and Ra's was very underwhelming. The concept was good but the execution was poor. Ollie was totally defeated and then he just suddenly overcomes Ra's? They needed some sort of moment to sell Ollie's sudden motivation... have him flashback and hear Felicity's speech about "fighting to live" or an extreme close of Ollie's determined face with appropriate music... I dunno, but it seemed very poorly choreographed and edited imo.

Captain Lance devolved back to season one. Again, I wonder how they plan on redeeming him?

THE GOOD:

The conflict between Diggle and Ollie felt real and I am happy it was not resolved.

Speedy!

Miniaturization and then BOOM! Of course Ray is not dead and it looks like we may get an Atom shrinking hero after all!

THE AWESOME:
"The city is in danger, it must be May" --- laughed so hard I had tears!!!!!!



Overall, an average to good episode but for a Final it should have been much stronger. I enjoyed the happy ending/series ending type of feel. Hopefully, this is the next step for Ollie to evolve into the GREEN Arrow next season. I am mixed on the twist of Merlyn becoming the new Ra's, (but I don't think Ra's is really dead anyway) though in retrospect it makes complete sense. Though why Ollie would keep his promise to Merlyn, other than the fact he does not want to be saddled with the responsibility with an army of murderers...?

Upon further complementation, I think the weakness of this season was Ra's and his world never being fully developed enough. You never truly got into his head the way we did with Merlyn or Slade. Everyone talks about what a boogeyman Ra's is, but as a viewer we really never got to see Ra's being truly evil, performing acts of darkness.... everything he did was in reaction to Ollie. We never got to see him as a Monster. And we never got a clear understanding why he wanted Ollie to replace him at this particular moment, other than some prophecy. Maybe the producers did not know how to write a character who is clearly more powerful than Ollie? Or the producers are stretched too thin with their other shows to give Arrow the proper attention it requires.

In the end, I still enjoyed this season but compared to the near perfect season two, this year felt unfocused at times. But I remain hopeful and look forward to season four.

 

[bionicbob]

A nice season three summary poster....

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