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haha, Arrow's arch nemesis: catching a cold
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Arrow
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bionicbob said:But this season the producers had to give Green Arrow sleeves due to the cold/wet Vancouver weather.... Ollie's gotten soft. LOL
We can blame Felicity for that.....
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You know Barry messed with the timeline when an Arrow episode (5x01) was better than a Flash episode (3x01).
It was great to see Arrow capture a bit of the feel from season 1, though it still felt a little counter productive that he went right back to killing so quickly. I loved the brutality that Arrow had, but the killing didn't bother me until he made it a point to stop. I guess that will be his arc this season.
The flashbacks were intriguing and I am excited to see where it goes and how it progresses. Felicity was less annoying and was more in line with how she used to be. I really, REALLY hope they don't fall back into Olicity, but that is a rant for a later time.
Arrow jumping out of a building, shooting an arrow to latch onto a helicopter and then fighting with Church inside.....WOW! Over the top comic booky action that I thoroughly enjoyed.
We're off to a great start so far (which Arrow typically does, so we'll see)!
It was great to see Arrow capture a bit of the feel from season 1, though it still felt a little counter productive that he went right back to killing so quickly. I loved the brutality that Arrow had, but the killing didn't bother me until he made it a point to stop. I guess that will be his arc this season.
The flashbacks were intriguing and I am excited to see where it goes and how it progresses. Felicity was less annoying and was more in line with how she used to be. I really, REALLY hope they don't fall back into Olicity, but that is a rant for a later time.
Arrow jumping out of a building, shooting an arrow to latch onto a helicopter and then fighting with Church inside.....WOW! Over the top comic booky action that I thoroughly enjoyed.
We're off to a great start so far (which Arrow typically does, so we'll see)!
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While I found the season 5 premiere of Arrow to be very enjoyable, it still felt like a show in trouble to me.
What I liked:
ACTION!!! This episode clearly reestablished Arrow as the King of TV Stunt Action. Unlike Daredevil's second season of monotonous over long fight choreography, Arrow's fight scenes remain dynamic, daring and thrilling!
Bromance! The call between Ollie and Diggle was pitch perfect.
Flashback! Well, surprise, surprise!!! The flashback storyline about Ollie in Russia was very intriguing and left me wanting for more. Plus, it was good acting by Amell, showing Ollie at a different phase in his life. Oh, the wig looks good too! lol.
Mayor Handsome! I hope we see more of this, though I doubt we will ever get into Ollie's political side the way the comic books do.
What I am at this moment indifferent about:
So Curtis gets mugged, and that makes him a candidate to become a masked vigilante? It would have worked better if the scene had played out longer, so the audience could be shocked more by the brutality of the attack and understand his trauma better.
So the big reveal of Laurel's request of Ollie was to not let the legacy of the Black Canary die? While a nice emotional character beat, why all the mystery built around this scene? It felt anti-climatic.
Charon Church is a great villain but isn't this just a retread of the Brickwell story arc from season 3???
What I disliked:
So Ollie is a full blown killer again. I mean he killed a lot of people this episode! HUGE!!!
This back and forth of whether to be hero that the city needs requires killing has been going on since season 2. It is starting to feel very tiresome. And how does this honour Laurel's legacy???? Didn't Ollie spend an entire episode trying to stop Laurel from becoming a killer in season 3? It is the same reason I HATE the episode "Canary Cry" from season four. 99% a fantastic, emotional episode about saying goodbye to Laurel and remembering what she stood for, and then in the last five minutes of the show, Ollie says he needs to kill Dhark for Laurel....wtf!!! Tommy dies, Ollie is like I need to be a better hero and not kill anymore. Laurel dies, it's Death Wish Time.
Obviously, based upon the whole "I can't let anyone know my secret" homage scene to the series pilot, and what producers have teased, this killer plot will connect to both the concept Ollie needs a team to keep him on the right path, and that a mistake he made in the past causes his newest Big Bad to emerge. Maybe Ollie killed the wrong person?
The second thing that I really hated even more, and this too goes back to the episode Canary Cry, the whole outing of Laurel's identity to the public. It's just dumb. It opens the door to revealing all of Team Arrow's identities to the world if anyone does a few minutes of google search. Plus, it puts all the cases Laurel prosecuted as a DA in jeopardy, not to mention Captain Lance's cases.
So for me, a great action packed episode though very flawed. 8 out of 10.
On to next week...
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuCn9Px7fO4[/video]
What I liked:
ACTION!!! This episode clearly reestablished Arrow as the King of TV Stunt Action. Unlike Daredevil's second season of monotonous over long fight choreography, Arrow's fight scenes remain dynamic, daring and thrilling!
Bromance! The call between Ollie and Diggle was pitch perfect.
Flashback! Well, surprise, surprise!!! The flashback storyline about Ollie in Russia was very intriguing and left me wanting for more. Plus, it was good acting by Amell, showing Ollie at a different phase in his life. Oh, the wig looks good too! lol.
Mayor Handsome! I hope we see more of this, though I doubt we will ever get into Ollie's political side the way the comic books do.
What I am at this moment indifferent about:
So Curtis gets mugged, and that makes him a candidate to become a masked vigilante? It would have worked better if the scene had played out longer, so the audience could be shocked more by the brutality of the attack and understand his trauma better.
So the big reveal of Laurel's request of Ollie was to not let the legacy of the Black Canary die? While a nice emotional character beat, why all the mystery built around this scene? It felt anti-climatic.
Charon Church is a great villain but isn't this just a retread of the Brickwell story arc from season 3???
What I disliked:
So Ollie is a full blown killer again. I mean he killed a lot of people this episode! HUGE!!!
This back and forth of whether to be hero that the city needs requires killing has been going on since season 2. It is starting to feel very tiresome. And how does this honour Laurel's legacy???? Didn't Ollie spend an entire episode trying to stop Laurel from becoming a killer in season 3? It is the same reason I HATE the episode "Canary Cry" from season four. 99% a fantastic, emotional episode about saying goodbye to Laurel and remembering what she stood for, and then in the last five minutes of the show, Ollie says he needs to kill Dhark for Laurel....wtf!!! Tommy dies, Ollie is like I need to be a better hero and not kill anymore. Laurel dies, it's Death Wish Time.
Obviously, based upon the whole "I can't let anyone know my secret" homage scene to the series pilot, and what producers have teased, this killer plot will connect to both the concept Ollie needs a team to keep him on the right path, and that a mistake he made in the past causes his newest Big Bad to emerge. Maybe Ollie killed the wrong person?
The second thing that I really hated even more, and this too goes back to the episode Canary Cry, the whole outing of Laurel's identity to the public. It's just dumb. It opens the door to revealing all of Team Arrow's identities to the world if anyone does a few minutes of google search. Plus, it puts all the cases Laurel prosecuted as a DA in jeopardy, not to mention Captain Lance's cases.
So for me, a great action packed episode though very flawed. 8 out of 10.
On to next week...
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuCn9Px7fO4[/video]
Nic
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With a new season of Arrow premiering yesterday, this felt like as good a time as any to give brief thoughts on the rest of the series (since I managed to catch up on the whole series last summer and fall before season 4):
Season 1: A mess of a first season that was salvaged by a surprisingly gripping origin story told in flashbacks. Given how this season and the first season of The Flash have similar elements (shadowy parental/mentor figure, reveal of the big bad held of until episode 9, audience lead to believe the best friend is the villain, only for it to be revealed that the villain is actually related to them, bad guy's master plan revealed near the tail end of the season, best friend ends up dying as a result of the villains plan), it's telling just how much that show makes season 1 feel uneven. It just felt like it took forever for the main story to get going, preferring to move most of the development until after Felicity joined the team.
As for the "killer Batman with a bow" angle of the character, it rubbed me the wrong way since the show never really addressed why Oliver felt doing so was okay. That may sound strange, but given how (A) the MCU's Punisher kills people and clearly isn't made out to be a "cool" (i.e., he does awesome things, but there's a lacking sense of irony to the character that makes you feel that this person could exist in some form of reality) and (B) we as a culture love to clarify exactly why characters like Batman don't kill and aggressively question why Superman kills (or at least question why him killing is supposed to be a big deal in Man of Steel), it's odd that the show doesn't bring up why Oliver kills so many people in the show and is still supposed to be viewed as the good guy. While this problem is highlighted by many things (he gives the rich and powerful a chance to repent but kills the middle class security workers they employ, Deadshot killing for money is bad but Oliver killing people as a result of "the mission" is "necessary," Diggle being appalled that his former commanding officer has turned to a life of crime but cuts this random idiot millionaire-turned vigilante so much slack) it comes to a head near the end when he finds out what the big bad plan is that he decides that his father's list is a chance to save Star(ling) City in a way that comes across very much like a criminally-insane person declaring a Holy War on those he deems evil. It really says something that near the end, Tommy Merlyn is simultaneously the show's most boring character (he's basically Oliver without the trauma) as well as my second favorite character (he sees Oliver the same way I see Oliver).
Still, Roy Harper was a delight, and episode 18, "Salvation," is my favorite episode of the season, since it has Roy finding self worth and sets-him off on the path to becoming a hero in his own right. And if there's one thing positive I can say about Oliver, it's that part of his arc IS learning how to reconnect with his family and learning to make friends with people that he can rely on, unlike how Batman (or at least, Burton and Nolan's Batman, the one's most people seem to unanimously like) only ever seems to rely on Alfred and not finding his humanity, or how Daredevil just pushes and pushes the one's he's close with away in favor of "the mission." Moira, Diggle, and Felicity also managed to stand out as bright spots, but that's about it. Were it not for the flashbacks, this would be the show's worst season.
Season 2: Talked about season 1 so much, hopefully I can keep the other season short. Perfect season premiere with Oliver coming out of exile and taking up a "no killing" rule to honor Tommy went a long way in redeeming his character for me. On top of that, this season still contains Arrow's strongest season-long story arc to date. Last season's flashbacks, this season's flashbacks, and every calculation Slade makes from his intro in the present onward do such a good job at making him Oliver's most dangerous foe, that the show-runners seem to have unintentionally shot themselves in the foot given how it doesn't seem any other season measure's up to it. It's an intimate story between these two men that it would be difficult to recreate. Aside from that, Sara Lance/Black Canary re-imagined as a League of Assassins member works really well for the world and story that's being created, and her relationship with Nyssa al Ghul was a good twist that I don't think anyone saw coming. The only parts of the season I didn't like were Brother Blood (the actor doesn't look like someone with the last name Blood), Isabel Rochev (I know her backstory comes from the comics, and I'm sure it sucked there too), and the show still pushing the idea that "torture=reliable information" (doing away with that mindset is one of the few good things that came out of season 3). And, of course, the introduction to Barry Allen! Best season!
Season 3: Killing off a beloved fan favorite, taking forever to figure out who murdered her, flashbacks that don't really tie into the main storyline immediately, the main characters refusing to communicate with each other when talking to each other would solve problems much faster, trying to turn a villain into a hero despite past actions making that development impossible to swallow, and temporarily turning our hero into a villain only to not really do it/not spend enough time on that revelation. These are some of the many, many problems with season 3. How good would it have been if after the mid-season break, Oliver did come back, but as Al Sah-Him instead of the Arrow, instructed with bringing in Malcolm Merlyn for punishment, and everyone else trying to bring Oliver back with the help of new hero, Ray Palmer/The Atom? In fact, how good would it have been if this were the last season, and Oliver did become the new Ra's al Ghul, but became the hero again, enforce his "no killing" rule on the League, and did some reforming and restructuring to turn the League of Assassins into a League of Justice? Still, "The Climb" was a gripping mid-season cliffhanger, Roy Harper's sendoff, while sad, was well executed, and Ray Palmer as The Atom is a pretty decent trade off (even if the writers of Legends of Tomorrow tend to treat him as a joke rather than an actual character like he was here). Easily the show's worse season.
Season 4:This was a season that started off REALLY well (introducing magic into the Arrowverse, bringing Sara back, giving Roy his shrinking powers, and unfortunately went downhill once Felicity became paralyzed...and then not paralyzed again, making the plot point meaningless. While Laurel was the most obvious/safe pick for who would end up in the coffin (she's the only person you could remove from the show without drastically changing character dynamics), the episode she did die was flat out horrible. Honestly, Oliver's insistence on killing Dhark as revenge for Laurel would be a much better reason for Felicity to break things off with him ("I thought I could get you back into this and things could be better, but I was wrong, instead of giving back his ring to him when he's SAYING GOODBYE TO HIS CHILD!!! Or better yet, have Felicity's "I realized that some part of you will always be that loner on the Lian Yu" monologue BEFORE the next big break between airing, not AFTER. The flashbacks, aside from introducing Constantine, have even less to do with this season than season 3's, and season 3's flashbacks were already pretty weak. That season at least had Maseo, who seemed like an attempt to create that since of intimacy with Oliver that Slade had.
At the very least, what Damien Dhark lacked in intimacy with Oliver he made up for with being boatloads of fun. Still, like @"bionicbob" said, it's telling that Slade was able to accomplish much more with a small army of super soldiers than Dhark could with NUKES. That, and the season remembered that Malcolm Merlyn IS a villain, and "Taken" was an awesome episode, with a live-action Vixen and one of Stephen Amell's best monologues as he says goodbye to his son (you know, before Felicity barged in). And while the execution was not as good as the second seasons', I will say that this season's structure and overall arch (trying to approach an old job with a more positive outlook, but reality butting heads with that idealism and diriving you back to old, bad habits, creating a schism in your world view) was fairly functional. Despite ups and downs, it's probably my favorite season after 2.
Now that I'm all caught up, Season 5 premiere...not as good as Season 2-4's, but it's a good start. There was a lot of good action throughout the episode, and it's nice to know that while the series seems to be headed back to "grounded territory," it still has room for things like a Parachute Arrow. My thoughts on the flashbacks and Oliver killing are almost the reverse of @"bionicbob"'s. While it's good that unlike seasons 3 and 4 this flashback actually has a character longtime viewers are familiar with Anatoli Kynazevy/KGBeast, what exactly is the tension of this story-line. As weak as they are, season 3's flashback's show Oliver's transformation into a person who is willing to torture someone just for the sake of it, season 4's flashbacks put Oliver into a situation where he has to kill a friend that he has grown fond of through struggle. Since we already know that Oliver speaks Russian and has developed ties with the Russian mob, what new information/outcome should we expect from season 5's flashbacks? Personally, I think the writers might be able to tie this into...
...Oliver willing to kill people again if the situation calls for it. Tommy's death caused him to take up a "no killing" rule, Laurel's death made him question it (I'm writing off Ra's death since it was kinda justified, as he literally would have kept attacking Star City unless Oliver did something about. Oliver also prayed for Ra's soul upon killing him, so it carries a little more weight than a regular murder). This season seems to be taking a page from the first two by introducing the main big bad at the beginning and telling the audience who he is at the mid-season finale. Now, if I had to guess who this "Black Arrow" is? Tommy Merlyn.
Here me out. Flashpoint is going to play out over all four of the CW's shows for the big crossover event of the winter. I imagine that for Arrow, Barry's mucking about with the timeline is going to bring back a character we all thought was dead but turns out not to be, much like Jason Todd/Red Hood from Batman. As to how he survived, this is how I would tie in the flashback story-line for this season; Konstantine Kovar, the main bad guy for the flashback story-line, is also going to be the main bad guy for the main story-line. He's going to survive whatever Oliver throws at him, go into hiding, and start gathering information on Oliver like Slade did. It will be revealed that he stole Tommys' corpse, pumped it full of Mirakuru, and begin conditioning his super soldier to hate Oliver Queen and to destroy him. So, not only would "Black Arrow" be a ripoff of Red Hood, but he'd be a ripoff of Winter Soldier, too!
In all seriousness though, I think this would be a good direction to take things. Having Tommy coming back as the driving antagonistic force with Kovar as his boss would provide a great moral conflict for Oliver: killing Kovar would solve everything, not allowing him to become as dangerous as Dhark did, but can he bring himself to kill Tommy? Would he try to save him? Will this convince Thea to come back to Team Arrow? Would Oliver, and us as the audience, finally get an answer as to whether killing is the only way to stop people like Malcolm Merlyn, Slade Wilson, Ra's al Ghul, and Damien Dhark?
Only time will tell.
Season 1: A mess of a first season that was salvaged by a surprisingly gripping origin story told in flashbacks. Given how this season and the first season of The Flash have similar elements (shadowy parental/mentor figure, reveal of the big bad held of until episode 9, audience lead to believe the best friend is the villain, only for it to be revealed that the villain is actually related to them, bad guy's master plan revealed near the tail end of the season, best friend ends up dying as a result of the villains plan), it's telling just how much that show makes season 1 feel uneven. It just felt like it took forever for the main story to get going, preferring to move most of the development until after Felicity joined the team.
As for the "killer Batman with a bow" angle of the character, it rubbed me the wrong way since the show never really addressed why Oliver felt doing so was okay. That may sound strange, but given how (A) the MCU's Punisher kills people and clearly isn't made out to be a "cool" (i.e., he does awesome things, but there's a lacking sense of irony to the character that makes you feel that this person could exist in some form of reality) and (B) we as a culture love to clarify exactly why characters like Batman don't kill and aggressively question why Superman kills (or at least question why him killing is supposed to be a big deal in Man of Steel), it's odd that the show doesn't bring up why Oliver kills so many people in the show and is still supposed to be viewed as the good guy. While this problem is highlighted by many things (he gives the rich and powerful a chance to repent but kills the middle class security workers they employ, Deadshot killing for money is bad but Oliver killing people as a result of "the mission" is "necessary," Diggle being appalled that his former commanding officer has turned to a life of crime but cuts this random idiot millionaire-turned vigilante so much slack) it comes to a head near the end when he finds out what the big bad plan is that he decides that his father's list is a chance to save Star(ling) City in a way that comes across very much like a criminally-insane person declaring a Holy War on those he deems evil. It really says something that near the end, Tommy Merlyn is simultaneously the show's most boring character (he's basically Oliver without the trauma) as well as my second favorite character (he sees Oliver the same way I see Oliver).
Still, Roy Harper was a delight, and episode 18, "Salvation," is my favorite episode of the season, since it has Roy finding self worth and sets-him off on the path to becoming a hero in his own right. And if there's one thing positive I can say about Oliver, it's that part of his arc IS learning how to reconnect with his family and learning to make friends with people that he can rely on, unlike how Batman (or at least, Burton and Nolan's Batman, the one's most people seem to unanimously like) only ever seems to rely on Alfred and not finding his humanity, or how Daredevil just pushes and pushes the one's he's close with away in favor of "the mission." Moira, Diggle, and Felicity also managed to stand out as bright spots, but that's about it. Were it not for the flashbacks, this would be the show's worst season.
Season 2: Talked about season 1 so much, hopefully I can keep the other season short. Perfect season premiere with Oliver coming out of exile and taking up a "no killing" rule to honor Tommy went a long way in redeeming his character for me. On top of that, this season still contains Arrow's strongest season-long story arc to date. Last season's flashbacks, this season's flashbacks, and every calculation Slade makes from his intro in the present onward do such a good job at making him Oliver's most dangerous foe, that the show-runners seem to have unintentionally shot themselves in the foot given how it doesn't seem any other season measure's up to it. It's an intimate story between these two men that it would be difficult to recreate. Aside from that, Sara Lance/Black Canary re-imagined as a League of Assassins member works really well for the world and story that's being created, and her relationship with Nyssa al Ghul was a good twist that I don't think anyone saw coming. The only parts of the season I didn't like were Brother Blood (the actor doesn't look like someone with the last name Blood), Isabel Rochev (I know her backstory comes from the comics, and I'm sure it sucked there too), and the show still pushing the idea that "torture=reliable information" (doing away with that mindset is one of the few good things that came out of season 3). And, of course, the introduction to Barry Allen! Best season!
Season 3: Killing off a beloved fan favorite, taking forever to figure out who murdered her, flashbacks that don't really tie into the main storyline immediately, the main characters refusing to communicate with each other when talking to each other would solve problems much faster, trying to turn a villain into a hero despite past actions making that development impossible to swallow, and temporarily turning our hero into a villain only to not really do it/not spend enough time on that revelation. These are some of the many, many problems with season 3. How good would it have been if after the mid-season break, Oliver did come back, but as Al Sah-Him instead of the Arrow, instructed with bringing in Malcolm Merlyn for punishment, and everyone else trying to bring Oliver back with the help of new hero, Ray Palmer/The Atom? In fact, how good would it have been if this were the last season, and Oliver did become the new Ra's al Ghul, but became the hero again, enforce his "no killing" rule on the League, and did some reforming and restructuring to turn the League of Assassins into a League of Justice? Still, "The Climb" was a gripping mid-season cliffhanger, Roy Harper's sendoff, while sad, was well executed, and Ray Palmer as The Atom is a pretty decent trade off (even if the writers of Legends of Tomorrow tend to treat him as a joke rather than an actual character like he was here). Easily the show's worse season.
Season 4:This was a season that started off REALLY well (introducing magic into the Arrowverse, bringing Sara back, giving Roy his shrinking powers, and unfortunately went downhill once Felicity became paralyzed...and then not paralyzed again, making the plot point meaningless. While Laurel was the most obvious/safe pick for who would end up in the coffin (she's the only person you could remove from the show without drastically changing character dynamics), the episode she did die was flat out horrible. Honestly, Oliver's insistence on killing Dhark as revenge for Laurel would be a much better reason for Felicity to break things off with him ("I thought I could get you back into this and things could be better, but I was wrong, instead of giving back his ring to him when he's SAYING GOODBYE TO HIS CHILD!!! Or better yet, have Felicity's "I realized that some part of you will always be that loner on the Lian Yu" monologue BEFORE the next big break between airing, not AFTER. The flashbacks, aside from introducing Constantine, have even less to do with this season than season 3's, and season 3's flashbacks were already pretty weak. That season at least had Maseo, who seemed like an attempt to create that since of intimacy with Oliver that Slade had.
At the very least, what Damien Dhark lacked in intimacy with Oliver he made up for with being boatloads of fun. Still, like @"bionicbob" said, it's telling that Slade was able to accomplish much more with a small army of super soldiers than Dhark could with NUKES. That, and the season remembered that Malcolm Merlyn IS a villain, and "Taken" was an awesome episode, with a live-action Vixen and one of Stephen Amell's best monologues as he says goodbye to his son (you know, before Felicity barged in). And while the execution was not as good as the second seasons', I will say that this season's structure and overall arch (trying to approach an old job with a more positive outlook, but reality butting heads with that idealism and diriving you back to old, bad habits, creating a schism in your world view) was fairly functional. Despite ups and downs, it's probably my favorite season after 2.
Now that I'm all caught up, Season 5 premiere...not as good as Season 2-4's, but it's a good start. There was a lot of good action throughout the episode, and it's nice to know that while the series seems to be headed back to "grounded territory," it still has room for things like a Parachute Arrow. My thoughts on the flashbacks and Oliver killing are almost the reverse of @"bionicbob"'s. While it's good that unlike seasons 3 and 4 this flashback actually has a character longtime viewers are familiar with Anatoli Kynazevy/KGBeast, what exactly is the tension of this story-line. As weak as they are, season 3's flashback's show Oliver's transformation into a person who is willing to torture someone just for the sake of it, season 4's flashbacks put Oliver into a situation where he has to kill a friend that he has grown fond of through struggle. Since we already know that Oliver speaks Russian and has developed ties with the Russian mob, what new information/outcome should we expect from season 5's flashbacks? Personally, I think the writers might be able to tie this into...
...Oliver willing to kill people again if the situation calls for it. Tommy's death caused him to take up a "no killing" rule, Laurel's death made him question it (I'm writing off Ra's death since it was kinda justified, as he literally would have kept attacking Star City unless Oliver did something about. Oliver also prayed for Ra's soul upon killing him, so it carries a little more weight than a regular murder). This season seems to be taking a page from the first two by introducing the main big bad at the beginning and telling the audience who he is at the mid-season finale. Now, if I had to guess who this "Black Arrow" is? Tommy Merlyn.
Here me out. Flashpoint is going to play out over all four of the CW's shows for the big crossover event of the winter. I imagine that for Arrow, Barry's mucking about with the timeline is going to bring back a character we all thought was dead but turns out not to be, much like Jason Todd/Red Hood from Batman. As to how he survived, this is how I would tie in the flashback story-line for this season; Konstantine Kovar, the main bad guy for the flashback story-line, is also going to be the main bad guy for the main story-line. He's going to survive whatever Oliver throws at him, go into hiding, and start gathering information on Oliver like Slade did. It will be revealed that he stole Tommys' corpse, pumped it full of Mirakuru, and begin conditioning his super soldier to hate Oliver Queen and to destroy him. So, not only would "Black Arrow" be a ripoff of Red Hood, but he'd be a ripoff of Winter Soldier, too!
In all seriousness though, I think this would be a good direction to take things. Having Tommy coming back as the driving antagonistic force with Kovar as his boss would provide a great moral conflict for Oliver: killing Kovar would solve everything, not allowing him to become as dangerous as Dhark did, but can he bring himself to kill Tommy? Would he try to save him? Will this convince Thea to come back to Team Arrow? Would Oliver, and us as the audience, finally get an answer as to whether killing is the only way to stop people like Malcolm Merlyn, Slade Wilson, Ra's al Ghul, and Damien Dhark?
Only time will tell.
Nic
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Episisode 2...on the one hand, I don't want to get excited because season 4 also started off rather strong and then got wonky near the end, but on the other hand? Yeah, color me excited for this season. As I said last week, the show understands making Oliver Queen just as important as Green Arrow, maybe even more since he has to learn to be gentler and more trusting of the new recruits. Essentially, this is roughly the 5 episodes Oliver spent training Roy streamlined into one episode. The fact that the episode takes time to address the consequences of Genesis Day with Ragman is also a nice touch (never have I been more pleased to have been lied to, i.e., showrunners saying there'd be no magic this season, but there is).
Also, is it me, or has Stephen Amell's acting gotten a lot better? Or rather, does the new status quo give him more chances to show off his range, since this is new territory for the character that's being explored (as he's always been fine in the flashbacks)? Either way, it's a very refreshing aspect of this season. Also, despite not being part of the team anymore, it's good to see Thea still having an important role on the show (even if that role is "Felicity, but for mayoral duties). Now to see where this plot thread with Diggle goes.
So, it turns out "Black Arrow" is actually Prometheus...who I am mainly familiar with from the awful miniseries "Cry for Justice," where (among other things) he killed a lot of heroes offscreen "just because," cuts of Roy Harper's arm, destroys Star City, kills Roy Harper's daughter as a result of said city destruction (again, "just cause"), and is generally just built up as a Gary Stu no one can stop...only for Green Arrow to just shoot him in the head...yeah. Turning out to be Tommy would be a MASSIVE step up from that.
Also, is it me, or has Stephen Amell's acting gotten a lot better? Or rather, does the new status quo give him more chances to show off his range, since this is new territory for the character that's being explored (as he's always been fine in the flashbacks)? Either way, it's a very refreshing aspect of this season. Also, despite not being part of the team anymore, it's good to see Thea still having an important role on the show (even if that role is "Felicity, but for mayoral duties). Now to see where this plot thread with Diggle goes.
So, it turns out "Black Arrow" is actually Prometheus...who I am mainly familiar with from the awful miniseries "Cry for Justice," where (among other things) he killed a lot of heroes offscreen "just because," cuts of Roy Harper's arm, destroys Star City, kills Roy Harper's daughter as a result of said city destruction (again, "just cause"), and is generally just built up as a Gary Stu no one can stop...only for Green Arrow to just shoot him in the head...yeah. Turning out to be Tommy would be a MASSIVE step up from that.
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Tonight's episode is not only the second part of the INVASION crossover, but it is also Arrow's 100th episode! Apparently several past dead characters will return ( Mom and Pop Queen, Laurel and maybe Tommy...) in what I assume will be the Dominator's attempt to control Ollie's mind to creating an alternate reality to gain information? Sort of like Arrow's own Flashpoint.
Thus far, I am enjoying season five very much. It is no where near season two levels of greatness, but has been pretty solid and entertaining so far. But then again, I found the first halves of seasons 3 and 4 very strong too, and both shows then had story/character arc issues when they returned after their winter finales.
Team Arrow 2.0 has added a fresh dynamic, which for the most part works. I really like Ragman... creepy.
The debate of what is acceptable for a vigilante was interesting and how Ollie draws the line.
The Artemis twist seemed to come out of left field, unless I missed some road signs earlier? But is she really a double agent? How is she connected to Prometheus?
And of course, who is Prometheus? He better not turn out to be the cop Felicity is dating, though there are no other candidates so far. Unless the online theory that it is Tommy due to Flashpoint?
Anyway, part one of Invasion (I am not including the Supergirl episode) was pretty awesome, filled with comic book style goodness! The biggest for me, the HALL OF FREAKING JUSTICE!!!!! lol If anything it felt a bit rushed and too jammed packed. But most of the characters got a brief moment to shine with some nice one liners lol. The emphasis was mostly on Barry and Ollie, which it should be as they are the Superman and Batman of this universe. Loved Ollie's unflinching support and belief in Barry, even after the Flashpoint reveal. The team leader scene was hilarious and spot on. I was laughing so hard during the training sequence, as all the heroes throw their best at Supergirl and she just floats their smiling unaffected...lol. And of course, just like in every comic book team up in the history of comic books, you had to have a mind control scene and have the heroes fight each other. The Dominators themselves look very creepy and it was interesting to learn they exist in Kara's universe too. Looking forward to part two tonight!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFq5yYBRqKw[/video]
Thus far, I am enjoying season five very much. It is no where near season two levels of greatness, but has been pretty solid and entertaining so far. But then again, I found the first halves of seasons 3 and 4 very strong too, and both shows then had story/character arc issues when they returned after their winter finales.
Team Arrow 2.0 has added a fresh dynamic, which for the most part works. I really like Ragman... creepy.
The debate of what is acceptable for a vigilante was interesting and how Ollie draws the line.
The Artemis twist seemed to come out of left field, unless I missed some road signs earlier? But is she really a double agent? How is she connected to Prometheus?
And of course, who is Prometheus? He better not turn out to be the cop Felicity is dating, though there are no other candidates so far. Unless the online theory that it is Tommy due to Flashpoint?
Anyway, part one of Invasion (I am not including the Supergirl episode) was pretty awesome, filled with comic book style goodness! The biggest for me, the HALL OF FREAKING JUSTICE!!!!! lol If anything it felt a bit rushed and too jammed packed. But most of the characters got a brief moment to shine with some nice one liners lol. The emphasis was mostly on Barry and Ollie, which it should be as they are the Superman and Batman of this universe. Loved Ollie's unflinching support and belief in Barry, even after the Flashpoint reveal. The team leader scene was hilarious and spot on. I was laughing so hard during the training sequence, as all the heroes throw their best at Supergirl and she just floats their smiling unaffected...lol. And of course, just like in every comic book team up in the history of comic books, you had to have a mind control scene and have the heroes fight each other. The Dominators themselves look very creepy and it was interesting to learn they exist in Kara's universe too. Looking forward to part two tonight!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFq5yYBRqKw[/video]
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Hhhmmmmm...... as a 100th episode and tribute to the history of the series, I found the episode very enjoyable even if the plot device was wholly unoriginal and lacked any real surprises. But there were some genuine emotional character moments that elevated this episode and made it worth watching. If the characters actually grow from this experience in future episodes rather it just being an anniversary gimmick, then the episode will gain more weight in retrospect.
As the third part of the big promotional HEROES VS ALIENS event, the story pretty much stopped cold. There was really no development of any significance, and even appearances by Supergirl and Flash were minimal.
So for long time Arrow watchers, I think this episode was rewarding, but I do not think it would win over any new viewers who tuned it just for the big crossover, super hero team up.
Tomorrow night the Invasion concludes....
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVoQ3H5-GUk[/video]
As the third part of the big promotional HEROES VS ALIENS event, the story pretty much stopped cold. There was really no development of any significance, and even appearances by Supergirl and Flash were minimal.
So for long time Arrow watchers, I think this episode was rewarding, but I do not think it would win over any new viewers who tuned it just for the big crossover, super hero team up.
Tomorrow night the Invasion concludes....
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVoQ3H5-GUk[/video]
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Random thoughts regarding Prometheus...
This week will be Arrow's Winter Finale episode, will it reveal Prometheus' true identity?
I hope not.
While I doubt this would ever happen, I was thinking it would be cool if they NEVER reveal who Prometheus is.... the Arrow writers has attempted a few times to create to their own Joker for Arrow, they tried twice with Vertigo but have never really succeeded. I suppose some would argue Malcolm Merlin is Arrow's arch foe, but I don't know if he has really achieved ultimate villain status. But it could be cool to have a villain who knows all your secrets but you never know his.... you never see his face or learn his true motivations. The ultimate boogy man. I think that could be a fun fresh concept if developed correctly. But as I said, I doubt that will happen.
Another interesting twist would be to reveal Prometheus is really Ted Grant aka Wildcat. We have never seen or had mention of the character after the street battle with Brick. When we last saw him he was laying seriously injured on the street in Black Canary's arms. Then poof! Never heard of again! Not even a throw away line to say he died or left the city. So weird. But that could be an awesome plot device. Horribly damaged by the fight, and never receiving any aid from Team Arrow afterwards, Grant goes off the rails, and blames Ollie for all his woes and returns to extract revenge. But again, I doubt that will happen either.
I really hope they don't go the Flashpoint route and somehow make it Tommy Merlyn. It just feels too easy and obvious. Of course, if well executed it could be great. It would really challenge Ollie mentally and emotionally to have to fight his best friend.
I dunno.... as I said, just sharing random thoughts....
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOo5bFRO1Jg[/video]
This week will be Arrow's Winter Finale episode, will it reveal Prometheus' true identity?
I hope not.
While I doubt this would ever happen, I was thinking it would be cool if they NEVER reveal who Prometheus is.... the Arrow writers has attempted a few times to create to their own Joker for Arrow, they tried twice with Vertigo but have never really succeeded. I suppose some would argue Malcolm Merlin is Arrow's arch foe, but I don't know if he has really achieved ultimate villain status. But it could be cool to have a villain who knows all your secrets but you never know his.... you never see his face or learn his true motivations. The ultimate boogy man. I think that could be a fun fresh concept if developed correctly. But as I said, I doubt that will happen.
Another interesting twist would be to reveal Prometheus is really Ted Grant aka Wildcat. We have never seen or had mention of the character after the street battle with Brick. When we last saw him he was laying seriously injured on the street in Black Canary's arms. Then poof! Never heard of again! Not even a throw away line to say he died or left the city. So weird. But that could be an awesome plot device. Horribly damaged by the fight, and never receiving any aid from Team Arrow afterwards, Grant goes off the rails, and blames Ollie for all his woes and returns to extract revenge. But again, I doubt that will happen either.
I really hope they don't go the Flashpoint route and somehow make it Tommy Merlyn. It just feels too easy and obvious. Of course, if well executed it could be great. It would really challenge Ollie mentally and emotionally to have to fight his best friend.
I dunno.... as I said, just sharing random thoughts....
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOo5bFRO1Jg[/video]
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A very strong Winter Finale!
Prometheus revealed but still a complete mystery -- love that approach!
We get a payoff to Ollie returning to his killing ways as the consequences of his past return.
Some very real drama as Curtis's spouse learns of his secret life and reacts as most real people would.
Hhmmmm.... Susan Williams drinks Russian alcohol.... is she connected to Bratva? Is this how the flashbacks will connect to the present day storyline? Or is she an agent of Prometheus too? Or both?!?!
Ollie mentions a woman trained him in Russia. We know my favourite genre actress Lexa Doig is joining the cast as Talia, same person? Will this explain why Raz was so interested in Ollie in season three?
And that final Laurel reveal!!! Let the speculation begin!
nitpicks--- the episode would have been stronger if the flashbacks had connected back to an actual season one episode rather than the writers creating a "lost" mission.
Also, since detective Billy Malone never evolved past one dimensional expendable cop/boyfriend his fate lacked some weight.
Still, probably the most powerful/best episode so far of season five!
Prometheus revealed but still a complete mystery -- love that approach!
We get a payoff to Ollie returning to his killing ways as the consequences of his past return.
Some very real drama as Curtis's spouse learns of his secret life and reacts as most real people would.
Hhmmmm.... Susan Williams drinks Russian alcohol.... is she connected to Bratva? Is this how the flashbacks will connect to the present day storyline? Or is she an agent of Prometheus too? Or both?!?!
Ollie mentions a woman trained him in Russia. We know my favourite genre actress Lexa Doig is joining the cast as Talia, same person? Will this explain why Raz was so interested in Ollie in season three?
And that final Laurel reveal!!! Let the speculation begin!
nitpicks--- the episode would have been stronger if the flashbacks had connected back to an actual season one episode rather than the writers creating a "lost" mission.
Also, since detective Billy Malone never evolved past one dimensional expendable cop/boyfriend his fate lacked some weight.
Still, probably the most powerful/best episode so far of season five!
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So over all I am still loving season 5.
Team Arrow 2.0 has really helped the show imo. I love the dynamic between Wilddog and Terrific. I thought the introduction of the new Black Canary worked mostly well, and having it tie back to comic continuity was a nice touch for fans. Thus far, Prometheus has worked as interesting boogeyman. Though every time I hear Michael Dorn's voice, I think Prometheus should be using a klingon bat'leth...LOL. Vigilante has also been a nice introduction.
Now we come to last week's big episode -- "Spectre of the Gun"
Arrow tackles current social issues head on -- Gun Violence.
In summary, a regular disgruntled joe walks into city hall with a bag full of weapons and opens fire -- killing many, seriously wounding even more.
It is a horrific event that sadly highlights the news far too often in reality.
So it was interesting to see this show tackle it since it's own policy about gun violence is a mess. Oliver says he does not want to kill anymore but still does when provoked. Heck, when they went to Russia, Ollie traded his bow and arrows for bullets and killed lots of bad guys.
Ollie say he wants his team to be better than him. But he allows Spartan and Wild Dog to use guns to dispense justice on a weekly basis. So unless they are using rubber bullets (which as far as I know has never been established onscreen), they are both killing bad guys every week.
With all that said, I was excited to see this show get political. Though also nervous it would play like an old after school special.
I think the actual show fell somewhere in the middle. In the 1970s comics, Green Arrow is famous for his political liberal leftist views. On the show, the character is now Mayor of Star City, but the show has cleverly avoided any reference to Ollie's political leanings. Is he a Democrat? Republican? Independent? No one knows. And even with this episode, with the issue of gun control made front and centre, the writer's keep Ollie walking the fence while his team mates argue all the pros and cons on behalf of the audience. And in the end, the writers played it safe, with Ollie passing some sort of city ordinance called the Freedom Gun act or some such nonsense, without offering any explanation as to what it is.
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. I give kudos to the producers for actually tackling the subject even if I feel they wimped out by not taking an actual stand either way. But what most impressed me, is how well the subject worked on the show and I would love to see more it. This is the grounded, gritty side of the Arrowverse shows, and I think it would benefit by tackling more real world topical social events on a regular basis. It has certainly helped Supergirl elevate itself during season two thus far. And in this new age of "Law and Order", Arrow is the perfect vehicle to explore many current issues through a comic book lens.
Team Arrow 2.0 has really helped the show imo. I love the dynamic between Wilddog and Terrific. I thought the introduction of the new Black Canary worked mostly well, and having it tie back to comic continuity was a nice touch for fans. Thus far, Prometheus has worked as interesting boogeyman. Though every time I hear Michael Dorn's voice, I think Prometheus should be using a klingon bat'leth...LOL. Vigilante has also been a nice introduction.
Now we come to last week's big episode -- "Spectre of the Gun"
Arrow tackles current social issues head on -- Gun Violence.
In summary, a regular disgruntled joe walks into city hall with a bag full of weapons and opens fire -- killing many, seriously wounding even more.
It is a horrific event that sadly highlights the news far too often in reality.
So it was interesting to see this show tackle it since it's own policy about gun violence is a mess. Oliver says he does not want to kill anymore but still does when provoked. Heck, when they went to Russia, Ollie traded his bow and arrows for bullets and killed lots of bad guys.
Ollie say he wants his team to be better than him. But he allows Spartan and Wild Dog to use guns to dispense justice on a weekly basis. So unless they are using rubber bullets (which as far as I know has never been established onscreen), they are both killing bad guys every week.
With all that said, I was excited to see this show get political. Though also nervous it would play like an old after school special.
I think the actual show fell somewhere in the middle. In the 1970s comics, Green Arrow is famous for his political liberal leftist views. On the show, the character is now Mayor of Star City, but the show has cleverly avoided any reference to Ollie's political leanings. Is he a Democrat? Republican? Independent? No one knows. And even with this episode, with the issue of gun control made front and centre, the writer's keep Ollie walking the fence while his team mates argue all the pros and cons on behalf of the audience. And in the end, the writers played it safe, with Ollie passing some sort of city ordinance called the Freedom Gun act or some such nonsense, without offering any explanation as to what it is.
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. I give kudos to the producers for actually tackling the subject even if I feel they wimped out by not taking an actual stand either way. But what most impressed me, is how well the subject worked on the show and I would love to see more it. This is the grounded, gritty side of the Arrowverse shows, and I think it would benefit by tackling more real world topical social events on a regular basis. It has certainly helped Supergirl elevate itself during season two thus far. And in this new age of "Law and Order", Arrow is the perfect vehicle to explore many current issues through a comic book lens.
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*********** MAJOR SPOILERS WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Prometheus revealed!!!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVsau-2f8dk[/video]
Ok, I did not see that coming. Sneaky producers, cleverly manipulating and misdirecting my comic book expectations. Well played.
But then, who the heck is Vigliante???? There are no other new characters this season other than Susan Williams. Unless it is someone from the Russia subplot? Or maybe there is another twist coming, the same way the producers played with the Jay Garrick reveal over on the Flash? Maybe Prometheus is impersonating Chase?
Regardless, Arrow is deep into second half season run, and still going incredibly strong.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TBCgU7OnJo[/video]
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Prometheus revealed!!!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVsau-2f8dk[/video]
Ok, I did not see that coming. Sneaky producers, cleverly manipulating and misdirecting my comic book expectations. Well played.
But then, who the heck is Vigliante???? There are no other new characters this season other than Susan Williams. Unless it is someone from the Russia subplot? Or maybe there is another twist coming, the same way the producers played with the Jay Garrick reveal over on the Flash? Maybe Prometheus is impersonating Chase?
Regardless, Arrow is deep into second half season run, and still going incredibly strong.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TBCgU7OnJo[/video]
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Maybe Dorian Chase is actually the Vigilante? It's interesting that Prometheus didn't outright kill him when he could've easily done so, plus they seemed evenly matched during their fight at first.
Nic
Well-known member
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So far, I've really been enjoying season 5 of the show, even if Prometheus didn't turn out to be who I thought he was. But then "Kapiushon" aired last week and very nearly fixed a lot of the problems I had with the previous seasons. I still don't think I'd go back to some of them wholesale (Season 1's story really feels meandering when it's not doing the flashbacks), but if Anatoly's "someday, Oliver, you're going to wake up and not like the person you see in the mirror" line were said way back in season 1 (I know Tommy said it once, but this line was stronger here), it would have felt far less awkward cheering on a protagonist who we're supposed to view in a clear cut way like Batman, but felt far closer to The Punisher (the Netflix one, who the show acknowledges is not a good guy).
Even then, this episode makes me wonder if every weak writing choice made (Season 2 Oliver still torturing people while trying to be more heroic, giving Merlyn the benefit of the doubt when he really shouldn't) was intentional. Even Team Arrow putting Dhark's idol back together when they should have broken it into many pieces (or sent it to ARGUS) works because of this episode, because you realize, on some level, Oliver wanted to use the idol on some level so that he could live forever, killing whoever he wanted under the guise of protecting Star City...and that's when you realize that Laurel's dead because of Oliver's greed. And lest anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke that the writers didn't turn out to be the villain of his own story, let me remind you, in this season *Oliver Queen is an American politician who has ties with Russia.*
Also, it makes me want to get back to Thea's story this season, because despite having no more bloodlust and retiring from being Speedy, she was adamant in protecting Oliver's political campaign by any means necessary, usually the means that end up destroying people's lives before she realized what she was doing was wrong and walked away. Makes you wonder is sadism runs in the Queen family.
Even then, this episode makes me wonder if every weak writing choice made (Season 2 Oliver still torturing people while trying to be more heroic, giving Merlyn the benefit of the doubt when he really shouldn't) was intentional. Even Team Arrow putting Dhark's idol back together when they should have broken it into many pieces (or sent it to ARGUS) works because of this episode, because you realize, on some level, Oliver wanted to use the idol on some level so that he could live forever, killing whoever he wanted under the guise of protecting Star City...and that's when you realize that Laurel's dead because of Oliver's greed. And lest anyone thinks I'm blowing smoke that the writers didn't turn out to be the villain of his own story, let me remind you, in this season *Oliver Queen is an American politician who has ties with Russia.*
Also, it makes me want to get back to Thea's story this season, because despite having no more bloodlust and retiring from being Speedy, she was adamant in protecting Oliver's political campaign by any means necessary, usually the means that end up destroying people's lives before she realized what she was doing was wrong and walked away. Makes you wonder is sadism runs in the Queen family.
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Two eps to go!!!
Its official! Arrow has broken it's second half season series curse. Season five has been solid and entertaining. I mean the Russia flashbacks were still the weakest element for me, but mostly because it was so under developed. Particularly the Talia subplot. If she is Ollie final great teacher, when did she have time to actually teach him? She was in only like two episodes...lol. In fact, that is the big weakest for the entire 5 season flashback origin arc.... Ollie just seems to magically develop skills over night from martial arts fighting, archery and learning new languages. You got a bit of taste of it here and there in season one and two but by season four, Ollie seemed to be full on Ninja-SEAL lol.
Anyway, loving main series and can't wait to see how it all wraps up...
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbGBv97l0o[/video]
Its official! Arrow has broken it's second half season series curse. Season five has been solid and entertaining. I mean the Russia flashbacks were still the weakest element for me, but mostly because it was so under developed. Particularly the Talia subplot. If she is Ollie final great teacher, when did she have time to actually teach him? She was in only like two episodes...lol. In fact, that is the big weakest for the entire 5 season flashback origin arc.... Ollie just seems to magically develop skills over night from martial arts fighting, archery and learning new languages. You got a bit of taste of it here and there in season one and two but by season four, Ollie seemed to be full on Ninja-SEAL lol.
Anyway, loving main series and can't wait to see how it all wraps up...
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vbGBv97l0o[/video]
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Nic said:bionicbob said:
1. What does this have to do with Arrow?
2. Please tell me MacFarlane's character name is Redenbacher.
Clicked wrong thread LOL. Gone back and fixed. Never use internet in morning before first coffee kicks in.
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Arrow has truly redeemed itself this season!
One episode to go!!!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_l1gGzJJGE[/video]
Watching the trailer, the final showdown seems to be in some ruins. Could this be the mysterious temple on the Island that was briefly seen way back in season two???
One episode to go!!!
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_l1gGzJJGE[/video]
Watching the trailer, the final showdown seems to be in some ruins. Could this be the mysterious temple on the Island that was briefly seen way back in season two???
