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Star Wars - The Force Awakens (SPOILERS Thread)

emphatic said:
Rewatched last night in 2D. It seems to me that lots of stuff is very blurry, could they have processed 3D footage into 2D?

This is a bit random but... I watched TFA first in 2D and just happened to notice that Rey was eating a piece of Romanesco Broccoli at Maz's castle. It stood out because it's such a wierd alien looking unusual vegetable (To this Brit anyway) and is bright green (Probably why it was chosen for the movie).

verduras_romanescu_big.jpg


But when I saw the iMAX 3D version this little detail and other parts of the frame had been heavily artificially blurred to add "depth" to the shot, so it was just a green smudge.

So the 2D version is definitely not simply a flattened copy of the 3D version (iMAX at least).
 
So... uh... I get to be the bad guy here, then? Like, the baddest? I admit I didn't quite expect that.

I finally saw TFA last night, and I thought it was garbage. Very well-made garbage, but garbage nonetheless.

Full disclosure: I had not been excited for the movie, hadn't been looking forward to it. I loved SW as a kid as much as any red-blooded boy (though my primary allegiance was always to Trek), and wanted a continuation of RotJ as soon as I first saw it. Then, while still a boy, I discovered the Thrawn Trilogy, and it was perfect: Han and Leia got together, the New Republic survived a fiendishly clever upstart challenge from the remnants of the Empire, and Luke even got a potential romantic interest. And then came the prequels, which of course bugged the hell out of me for a thousand reasons.

Now, I know that by the time Disney acquired the franchise, it was too late to adapt the Thrawn Trilogy, not that they'd comfortably fit into 2-hour, 3-act movies anyhow. I knew the new Episodes would be their own thing... and I didn't really care about them one way or the other. How many star wars can one century of galactic history bear? At some point, all these wars stop becoming fun and start becoming depressing. (I bailed on Smallville the series for similar reasons: by the third season, all the high school students and small-town folk becoming Kyrptonite-infected and getting hurt and dying just became ghoulish.) How many times are we going to gaga for lightsaber twirling and quirky droids and light side/dark side soap operatics? And then I saw the movie. And, despite its lightning-fast pace (barely if at all slower than either of the nuTreks), I was bored for long stretches. Another Skywalker son seduced by the Dark Side? Different generation, same crap? Another Sith lord? Another Death Star? Another... pretty much everything in the whole movie?


revel911 said:
I feel justified having hearing JJ in that  interview with Lawerence say that "to move forward, we had to start  backwards." And I get that, he needed to rebuild new audiences and  regain an old audience with themes we knew, to start with themes we  didn't.
Well, then, surely that's the problem right there. That quote,  and JJ's mindset, which is at the very core of TFA, is pure chicken-fried bullsh*t. Like hell, Disney needed to "regain an old audience" - it's frickin' Star Wars; all any fans asked for was a good movie for the first time since Empire! (The Throne Room sequence of RotJ is genuinely great, but the rest of that movie is just plain not good.)


As a friend of mine wrote on FB:
I felt gutted afterward. It was a JJ Abrams movie walking around in a Star Wars skin - the spirit of the real thing was nowhere to be seen. It  had some good moments, some good new characters. But I keep coming back  to the way there was no space between  people, no grey area where you're not sure who you can trust. It took  Han and Luke a whole film to trust each other, you never quite trust  Lando, and the jury is totally out on how much good was left in Vader.  That never-being-quite-sure about where people stand is crucial to the  realistic depiction of a universe in which the good guys are the  outgunned-but-scrappy guerillas up against a much more corporate force.  But in this piece of nonsense, Bo and Finn know each other for two  seconds and are immediately bosom buddies. Princess Leia is like, "Oh,  you're an ex Stormtrooper, brainwashed from birth? Come on in for a  hug!" What the fu**? And also, Bo treats his droid like a golden  retriever - but that weird tension between a droid's artificial nature  and the way our characters long to treat them as human was a  prescient,  meaningful part of the originals.




So now every time I watch RotJ - which admittedly is less than often - I'll know that for our Big Three, a whole lot of misery lies ahead. And that's before Han gets murdered by his own son.

The hell?

...


...


For comparison, I love the MCU. I'm a bit nervous that Phase III - and by extension, the first uber-Phase of the first three Phases - looks to be heading toward a Power Rangers-style battle over some Skittles-colored gems, but at least we're going somewhere, and it's been a great ride so far. Heck, I'm nervous about Cap and Tony and the others having a Civil War, but I have to hand it to Marvel Studios; it's a gutsy move. But for TFA to basically fridge the New Republic (or whatever they're calling it) and reset everything to pretty much the start of ANH just feels horribly lazy, commercially cynical, and narratively pointless. I may still enjoy low-calorie entertainment in the form of superhero movies, but that doesn't mean I want slightly remixed versions of the same damn Skywalker saga over and over my whole damn life.

(This applies to my childhood primary love of Trek, too, by the way - I still have doubts that there's much left for the franchise to do after Admiral Janeway used time travel to make Voyager the Batmobile and dick-kick the Borg. Sure, we've gone back in time and along a somewhat different path since then, but the Dominion and Borg and Romulans and all that are still out there, right? Beyond may be good and it may not be, but we're still playing around in a fundamentally known universe, yeah?)


Look, I'll happily take steaming craps on dreck like Transformers and GI Joe all day long, but I get no pleasure from beating up on my old childhood friend Star Wars; I really don't. And for all those who enjoyed TFA and can't wait for Rogue One or the next season of Rebels or Episode VIII or that movie about Young Han Solo who'll grow up to be a failed father, a failed husband and whose own son will murder him... more power to ya, I guess. I'm one of those who freakin' loved Jurassic World, so I'm not going to pretend I've evolved to some higher plane of existence or anything. I wasn't looking forward to TFA, and not only enjoyed it far, far less than Ant-Man, but thought it straight up sucked, and that's okay. (My mother, who I saw the movie with, was even more revolted, and while she thought Furious 7 was unbelievably childish when I took her to that last year, she unequivocally said she enjoyed that much more.) Again, while I see lots of us here have similar quibbles and annoyances with this movie, I am a bit surprised to find myself apparently alone in the "I don't even care, can't Star Wars and Terminator both just die already" camp, but, hey, that's okay too. And hell, maybe the next Episode won't be crap - at least it's got a non-hack director. Maybe Rogue One will be a compelling and fun story that doesn't piss all over some of my favorite childhood heroes. I'll see 'em all eventually, I'm sure, if not necessarily in theaters. May the Force be ever with us all.

But I'm glad my kid self didn't have this movie to watch right after RotJ, is my parting thought. Because, bleah. The big three deserved... if not happily ever after, at least something better than all this.  :-(

Grade: C-
 
Gaith said:
I finally saw TFA last night, and I thought it was garbage. Very well-made garbage, but garbage nonetheless.

So... uh... I get to be the bad guy here, then? Like, the baddest? I admit I didn't quite expect that.

Whereas I fully expected it.
 
Also, your friend on FB couldn't even get Poe's name right (fucking it up *twice*).
 
TV's Frink said:
Also, your friend on FB couldn't even get Poe's name right (fucking it up *twice*).
So she doesn't follow movie news the way we do, didn't study the cast listing closely, and didn't remember the exact name amidst all the other brand-new stuff coming at her. So the heck what? Doesn't mean she doesn't recognize a soulless rehash when she sees one.
 
I don't know what you expected, Gaith. I went in thinking "please don't be like the prequels" and came out very pleased because it was not, and I can't know but can assume that's what the vast majority of audiences also experienced. Nobody lives happily ever after and no story is devoid of conflict. After the sour taste of the prequels, of course they were going to bring back Han, Leia, and Luke. And of course there would be conflict in their lives that is integral to the story. Because if there wasn't, it'd be really similar to episodes 1 and 2 and the studio is NOT going to let that happen again (although the jury's still out on possible Han Solo and/or Boba Fett prequels).

So yeah, there were a few flaws but they were extremely minor and didn't damage the enjoyment of the film in my opinion. Your friend saying she was gutted makes me literally laugh out loud. That's ridiculous. Anyway, I know we don't interact much on the forum, the two of us, but I felt a strong need to disagree with you to hopefully find out why you feel so negatively.
 
Gaith said:
So she doesn't follow movie news the way we do, didn't study the cast listing closely

Neither does my wife.

and didn't remember the exact name amidst all the other brand-new stuff coming at her.

My wife did.
 
addiesin said:
I don't know what you expected, Gaith. [...] I felt a strong need to disagree with you to hopefully find out why you feel so negatively.
To be honest, I got pretty much what I expected, hence my lack of enthusiasm going in. Star Wars is too huge for a pop culture guy like me to ignore when a new Episode comes out, so I had to see it eventually out of curiosity alone... let the buyer beware, huh? :oops:

As to why I was so annoyed, they could very easily have structured a story in which Leia was a New Republic political leader, and Han a senior military commander, and their relationship solid, and Luke running a still new but promising new Jedi academy. They could have used elements of Zahn's books, like Thrawn and the Katana Fleet. Or, instead of apparently keeping to the awful Rule of Two, they could have had a whole bunch of Sith baddies. Like, a dormant Sith sleeper cell awakens, and starts causing terrorist attacks along the Outer Rim.

Or, there could have been some new invasion from outside the galaxy or something. Or they could have done something entirely different and new, and done a story about a low-level injustice in a backwater planet of the Outer Rim, and give us a ground-level protagonist praying for a Jedi intervention in time, but knowing it's a big galaxy, only so many new Jedi, and the odds not in their favor. Maybe even a Force-sensitive protagonist. And, lo! At the last moment, Luke and a few of his trainees do show up, and help her right a small-scale yet still very nefarious wrong! And she is invited to join his academy! And Senator Leia Organa presents her with a medal of valor! Credits! I would have liked that.

Instead, they did the simplest, easiest thing: hit the reset button, and rehash ANH. Like I said, it's a well-made flick, albeit paced too fast for my liking, and took the safest financial path, so if I were a Disney shareholder I wouldn't be complaining. But I felt pandered to and underestimated at the same time. ;-)
 
At first I drafted the beginnings of a big, long, classically L8wrtr response to this, but then I came to my senses.

Instead I'll settle for a much more simple response.

Whatever dude.
 
L8wrtr said:
At first I drafted the beginnings of a big, long, classically L8wrtr response to this, but then I came to my senses.

Instead I'll settle for a much more simple response.

Whatever dude.

Who are you and where's the L8wrtr we know and love?
 
L8wrtr said:
At first I drafted the beginnings of a big, long, classically L8wrtr response to this, but then I came to my senses.

Instead I'll settle for a much more simple response.

Whatever dude.
But I want to read it and upvote it.
 
I still have issues with Death Star, trench, cantina, father/son bridge scene (mostly because I felt it was not needed to make all those scenes look so much like the OT for them to work)... BUT the movie is at its core what I wanted it to be.

Even before the title of episode 7 was known, what I wanted was:

- The Force at the center of the plot. And I guessed the Force would be in the title. Bingo.
- The beginning of the movie should be a star destroyer coming from behind the camera, like in ANH, only to be revealed that it is a wreck from an ancient war. (Almost) bingo! it's just that it's not on the opening shot.
- I wanted Han and Leia not being together anymore. Han probably drunk in a bar somewhere and being forced to work for Leia again. (Almost) Bingo!
- I didn't want kids of the main characters involved, but all in all I'm pleased with the way it was done. They said the main saga is the story of the Skywalker family anyway, so there's no way around it. I just hope Rey is something else.
- I wanted a movie driven by characters in action. Bingo.
- I wanted John Williams's music. Bingo.
- I wanted more practical effects. Bingo.
- I didn't want to have that feeling I had after each prequel's movies. You know, that feeling of "Well, it was not as good as the OT but I think Lucas have a plan for it to make it work at the end.". That feeling of rationalizing something you're not a fan of, because you still have a bit of faith in what comes next instead of just judging what you just saw. Nothing like that with TFA.
- My biggest fear was the new cast. I really hoped they were good. As soon as a saw Ridley in few shots in the second teaser I knew she was great. Bingo.
- i wanted a movie that felt like a real sequel of ROTJ (as much as possible after a 30 years gap). Bingo (IMO).
- I wanted a Han Solo that was not just a cameo in one or two scenes. It ends up that it is almost HIS movie. Bingo.
- I wanted to see Luke and to know what he was doing 30 years later. Well, I guess it's a kind of a bingo...? But I'm glad that Episode 8 should be HIS episode in the same way 7 was Han Solo's. (I just hope they will not kill Luke and Leia in each of the following movies or it would be really depressing, lol)
- Even BB8 made R2D2 looks like an afterthought.
- Even my girlfriend who really didn't want to see the movie (because she's not a fan of the world at all) said that she was not bored, and even entertained.
 
TMBTM said:
- I wanted Han and Leia not being together anymore. Han probably drunk in a bar somewhere and being forced to work for Leia again. (Almost) Bingo!
You did? I neither expected nor wanted that myself... ;-)


TMBTM said:
- I wanted to see Luke and to know what he was doing 30 years later. Well, I guess it's a kind of a bingo...? But I'm glad that Episode 8 should be HIS episode in the same way 7 was Han Solo's. (I just hope they will not kill Luke and Leia in each of the following movies or it would be really depressing, lol)
And Leia being the daughter of one of galactic history's mass murderers, only to watch her son become a school shooter and aspiring mass murderer isn't really depressing all by itself? That's some Greek tragedy-level affliction right there! :oops:

(And when she told Han to "bring our son home"... I was all, with what, woman?! A mobile cell loaded with ysalamiri? And/or several Jedi Masters to subdue him?! Best-case scenario is he got completely mind-raped by some Sith before turning on his family and peers, and is therefore not at all to blame, but pretty much any other scenario means he's already a complete Sith monster, and thus far beyond any non Force user's reach.)



A good discussion from Screen Junkies... Landis, who liked it more than I did, makes some good points, though in 40 minutes, no one really addresses the fact that after RotJ, our Big Three will be more miserable than they could possibly have imagined:

 
I saw that video the other day. I like Max Landis's passion, but I absolutely do not agree with Rey being what he calls a "Marie Sue". (a character that can do no wrong for plot convenience)

- Rey knows how to fight because if not she would die, living this life style on Jakku.
- Rey knows how to pilot the Falcon because she knows the ship. Probably worked on it before for Unkar Plutt. And as a scavenger, she knows every piece of machinery.
- Rey trying to control Daniel Craig's mind is the result of her resisting to Kylo's mental rape the scene before. She found out that she also can read his mind ("You're afraid of not being as strong as Vader!" or something like that). So she tries it again to escape. And it works because... well, because "There has been an awakening" in the vision scene.
I think something is happening to her that is not exactly what happened to Luke. I think she's stronger with the Force than anyone. That's why she was left on Jakku and that's why Luke is not looking happy when she arrives at the end (my theory). He knows she is possibly a bigger danger than Kylo Ren if she learns more of the Force. And even if maybe he does not know her after all, he feel it.
- At the end during the lightsaber's fight, when Kylo tries to tell her to learn the dark side of the Force, she marks a pause, eyes closed, and says "The Force"... Like if she have a special relation with the Force, right?

Rey is awesome because she is awesome.
Calling her a "Marie Sue" is like Calling Bruce Willis in Unbreakable a Marie Sue...
 
TMBTM said:
I absolutely do not agree with Rey being what he calls a "Marie Sue".

One reviewer made this comment and everyone latched onto it. I suspect those that claim she's a Mary Sue don't even know what it means.
 
Max Landis is a moron.

And Mary Sue is an offensive term because it's not applied equally to men.
 
Gaith said:
You did? I neither expected nor wanted that myself... ;-)

Yeah, having Han and Leia not being "together" was, in my mind a way to still have the same kind of relation/chimestry they had during the OT. Leia could have been married to a politician asshole that Han would not like. That kind of thing.
So it's not how it is played in TFA, but I like the result anyway. They were happy, something happened that separated them but they still love each other. I think it's a perfect way to see our heroes again.
EDIT: And it gives them a nice little story with the few amount of screentime they have together.
 
TM2YC said:
So the 2D version is definitely not simply a flattened copy of the 3D version (iMAX at least).

Actually you've got that backwards. The move was filmed in 2D non-IMAX size and resolution. So the 3D IMAX version is a highly modified enlarged artificially rendered 3D version of the 2D original. I haven't seen it in 3D but my guess is the 3D probably looks better on non-IMAX screen.

I hate IMAX unless it is filmed with IMAX cameras. Same for 3D usually, though there are some exceptional examples of post production 3D rendering.

Depending on the 3D technology at the theater you were at, angle to the screen can cause blurriness too.
 
I too would like to hear [MENTION=8664]L8wrtr[/MENTION] rant! :)

TFA was much more enjoyable for me the 2nd time I watched it. I was able to be a little less critical and appreciate the good aspects.
 
Sorry to be picky but...

geminigod said:
Actually you've got that backwards.

Have I? In what sense?

geminigod said:
The move was filmed in 2D non-IMAX size and resolution.

I never said it wasn't (Although parts were shot with iMAX cameras)

geminigod said:
So the 3D IMAX version is a highly modified enlarged artificially rendered 3D version of the 2D original.

I never said it wasn't.

geminigod said:
I haven't seen it in 3D but my guess is the 3D probably looks better on non-IMAX screen.

I have only seen TFA in 2D or iMAX-3D. But from previous experiences, the iMAX-3D system has always looked superior to my eyes than the other general multiplex systems.

geminigod said:
Depending on the 3D technology at the theater you were at, angle to the screen can cause blurriness too.

It was the best in the UK (I believe?) and I made sure to also have the best seats.
 
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