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Star Wars - The Force Awakens (SPOILERS Thread)

addiesin said:
it's also being used incorrectly. The Mary Sue definition doesn't even apply to Rey. People using the term are stretching it to fit their needs instead of going by what it actually means.
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but bro:

Gaith said:
Terms change over time.
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Right, like in this case the term "over time" has changed to "as soon as there is a misunderstanding on Twitter".
 
This thread really got derailed, Wow.
Thanks for your comments Gaith - always interesting to hear why someone disliked a movie everyone else liked. Thanks for risking the wrath of the forum. :)
 
dangermouse said:
This thread really got derailed, Wow.
Thanks for your comments Gaith - always interesting to hear why someone disliked a movie everyone else liked. Thanks for risking the wrath of the forum. :)
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To be fair, I don't think anyone has a problem with the fact that he disliked the movie. The discussion was over the use of the "Mary Sue" argument.
 
I disagree with part of that, I don't think the thread has derailed. A large amount of people have latched on to the Mary Sue term to describe a main character in this film, and I think that merits discussion and is still on topic. Edit: yeah, what ThrowgnCpr said.

But yes, thank you Gaith for elaborating on your opinion. Some of your ideas surely could have worked, and I appreciate that you chose the word could instead of should. I had a very similar reaction to The Dark Knight Rises (a story for another thread), and find it very interesting when something in a big budget franchise with mainstream appeal just doesn't work for someone, at least when they can articulate why. And you've definitely been able to do that.

I still disagree (that the film was disappointing), but respectfully rather than with animosity.
 
ThrowgnCpr said:
To be fair, I don't think anyone has a problem with the fact that he disliked the movie.
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Yep. I merely predicted it.
 
TMBTM said:
During the OT we learned about the Force at the same time as Luke. But you can't repeat that learning phase again over movies 7, 8 and 9. To keep the story interesting and moving forward you need a powerfull character right now.
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As I understand it, a lot of people loved Creed despite it repeating the learning/training phase of boxing from the first six Rocky movies. ;)

I think Landis made a solid point about Rey being conveniently hyper-powered for ADD plot purposes, and I'm not much invested in circular semantic arguments. As I've said, I wish we'd spent more time with Rey, and that she'd gotten more development and complexity, and I'd have happily cut Finn out of the story to make room for her. Nor do I object to her being more powerful than Luke after adequate plot buildup, but I don't think this movie gave us that.


... Moving on, I was confused about Ren's reverence for Vader. Surely by the time he was deemed old enough to train as a Jedi, he'd been told how Luke rescued his pappy to the light side, so what's with appealing to his memory as the ultimate avatar of darkness? I highly doubt he'll learn the truth about Vader's redemption in a big, dramatic moment, because the audience would just be going "no duh". I expect there'll be some explanation, but, sitting there in the theater, it was tempting to read it as another instance of fan service being placed above in-universe coherence.
 
Gaith said:
I think Landis made a solid point about Rey being conveniently hyper-powered for ADD plot purposes
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giphy.gif
 
Gaith said:
... Moving on, I was confused about Ren's reverence for Vader. Surely by the time he was deemed old enough to train as a Jedi, he'd been told how Luke rescued his pappy to the light side, so what's with appealing to his memory as the ultimate avatar of darkness? I highly doubt he'll learn the truth about Vader's redemption in a big, dramatic moment, because the audience would just be going "no duh". I expect there'll be some explanation, but, sitting there in the theater, it was tempting to read it as another instance of fan service being placed above in-universe coherence.
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I was a bit concerned by this for a moment but now I think he knows how Vader turned to the light in the end. It would be odd for Luke to not tell him.
I believe (another theory) that the "I'll finish what you started; Nothing will stand in OUR way" is Kylo Ren talking DIRECTLY to the ghost of Vader. Because he's saying "Show me AGAIN, Grandfather". So "in OUR way" is, to me, not in refference to him and the First Order, but to him and Vader.
"Show me again the ways of the dark side, like you did before, grand Father, and one day i'll finish what you started and we will rule the galaxy".
Basicaly if a Force ghost of Vader appeared to him saying "I was weak at the end and now I hope you'll be stronger than me", then it could make sens.
Of course Anakin's Force ghost could be a trick used by Snoke to make Kylo Ren fall into the dark side. It could be Snoke in disguise.
Head explodes....
 
Yessss I too have a strong feeling that Snoke was playing Ren there.
If Anakin's ghost really is giving Ren lectures on 'How to be evil 101', it sort of takes away from that emotional characteristic of both Vader AND the end of Return of the Jedi.
Much like Sidious tricked Anakin into turning to the dark side of The Force, what if it was Snoke who's pulling all the strings.
My goosebumps are getting goosebumps...
 
Damn, I just came back from reading the IMDB reviews for TFA... there's a LOT of hate around this movie.
The quote that made me laugh the most, for various reasons: "C3PO should've died".
 
TMBTM said:
Damn, I just came back from reading the IMDB reviews for TFA... there's a LOT of hate around this movie.
The quote that made me laugh the most, for various reasons: "C3PO should've died".
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hahaha. Honestly, if there is one thing that continues to bug me about TFA, it's C3PO. He was very unnecessary and his lines felt contrived and unfunny.
 
ThrowgnCpr said:
hahaha. Honestly, if there is one thing that continues to bug me about TFA, it's C3PO. He was very unnecessary and his lines felt contrived and unfunny.
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You summed up my feelings on 3PO for all three prequels.
 
ThrowgnCpr said:
hahaha. Honestly, if there is one thing that continues to bug me about TFA, it's C3PO. He was very unnecessary and his lines felt contrived and unfunny.
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I really laughed at his "You probably don't recognize me because of the red arm".
You put some 3PO pictures in papers with a red arm, you let the fans wondering why for months, then you just throw that line without further explanation. Some people may be upset by that, but it really made me laugh out loud.
That said, yes, the character itself serves no purpose, much like in the prequels, as Q2 said. (other than being a Star Wars iconic figure)
 
I laughed hard at that for the same reason, probably harder than I should have laughed.
 
That's actually my favorite line of the movie, but I'm weird like that. Always loved 3PO and felt he was pretty in character here.
 
I liked how antiquated and weird he seemed in the more up to date looking settings. He seems impractical in his own universe, and I enjoyed that.
 
The red arm line was cute, but talking about things in the movie I liked, I laughed aloud when Ren was cutting up the empty interrogation chair and the two random troopers patrolling by decided to back up and patrol the way they'd came. That was one of the best gags in the whole franchise, and for that moment and a good minute or two afterward, I was a very happy camper. :p
 
A very well written review and analysis of The Force Awakens and how it fits into the Star Wars saga formula.
[video=youtube_share;YbaliPyihCY]
 
Regarding C-3P0: He does have some function in this movie, which is to provide the exposition about R2-D2 not working. That's not a lot, and someone else certainly could have given that information, but it's still more than the prequels, where he literally has nothing to do for 3 movies.

And the "red arm" line was indeed funny. It's nice for Threepio to get an intentional laugh again.

The problem is that he's an interpreter droid, and the filmmakers refuse to put him in any situations where he's actually translating anything. In any case in TFA (or the prequels) where someone speaks another language, we get subtitles and the other characters can already understand them anyway.
 
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