Star Wars - The Force Awakens (SPOILERS Thread)

[TV's Frink]

Anywhere I can read about these projects?

[url]http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?15340-Star-Wars-The-Force-Awakens-Fanedit-Ideas-Thread-(Spoilers)[/URL]

 

[TV's Frink]

 

[TomH1138]

I certainly hope that Snoke doesn't turn out to be Plagueis. Plagueis is dead, and Star Wars has yet to go down the route of "fake-out deaths" that so annoys me in most comic books and other genre works. (Well, I suppose that Anakin could be considered to have had a "fake-out death," but it didn't really feel like that in the reveal.)

 

[theforce]

I certainly hope that Snoke doesn't turn out to be Plagueis. Plagueis is dead, and Star Wars has yet to go down the route of "fake-out deaths" that so annoys me in most comic books and other genre works. (Well, I suppose that Anakin could be considered to have had a "fake-out death," but it didn't really feel like that in the reveal.)

This is my opinion, but for me if Snoke is just Snoke, a character just created for the sake of having a bad who has no connection to episodes 1 to 6, then for me it would water down the series and would show Disney's misinterpretation of the Saga and would just make these sequel trilogies watered down.

Plageuis had the ability to cheat death and create life. This would at least explain the virgin birth of Anakin with the direct result of the creation of the Skywalker line strong in the force.

These sequel trilogies in my mind should have a connaction to the previous trilogies....the third Act always goes back to the past.

Like Randy from scream three says...lol

3. "The past will come back to bite you in the ass. Whatever you think you know about the past, forget it. The past is not at rest! Any sins you think were committed in the past are about to break out and destroy you."

This would support George Lucas nd Richard Marquand's discussion about the 9 episode Saga....I repeat the quote from Marquand in 1983:

‘If you follow the direction, and project into the final trilogy, you realise that you’re going to meet the supreme intellect, and you think how is it possible to create a man who has such profound cunning that he can not only control Darth Vader, but the fate of Luke Skywalker? Control the destiny of the whole galaxy? You’ll be amazed!’

Which Snoke is the "Supreme" Intellect and if it turns out to be plagueis...it would turn out well for me anyway....and it wouldn't be a fake in that sense, because Palpatine did mention he could cheat death....there is the setup left ambiguous. from episode 1...to be revealed in the final trilogy (The Third Act)

But Disney being Disney, will play it safe like they did with The Force Awakens and will not be as bold. I hope I am totally wrong about this statement....but we shall see.

I believe that the Darth Plageuis book is still Canon...but I am not fully sure from the LucasFilm website.

P.S. I didn't really like the midichlorians...I like the force to be mystical...but here is a better explanation of them that sits well with me:

The Jedi thought of the cellular organelles as symbionts, but to Plagueis midi-chlorians were interlopers, running interference for the Force and standing in the way of a being’s ability to contact the Force directly. Through years of experimentation and directed meditation, Plagueis had honed an ability to perceive the actions of midi-chlorians, though not yet the ability to manipulate them...............A common misconception held that midi-chlorians were Force-carrying particles, when in fact they functioned more as translators, interlocutors of the will of the Force.......Even in life, did midi-chlorians behave in a Jedi as they did in a devotee of the dark side?

 

[addiesin]

If he had the ability, why couldn't others have it also? Smoke is Supreme Leader after all, I assume he got to be that for a reason, the obvious one is he must be powerful. I would much prefer him to be someone all new, Rey too. It's Star Wars, not a small southern town.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

If he had the ability, why couldn't others have it also? Smoke is Supreme Leader after all, I assume he got to be that for a reason, the obvious one is he must be powerful. I would much prefer him to be someone all new, Rey too. It's Star Wars, not a small southern town.

^ This. I'm going to be pissed if Snoke turns out to be Plagueis. I'm confident that he isn't, because it seems like such a big (dumb) part of the PT, and that the new team wouldn't want to rehash that. The main objective for the continuation so far seems to have been: reset it back to the basic underlying themes, while giving us another look at the original characters we love (for a short period). Obviously the PT is canon according to Disney, but that doesn't mean they have to adhere to all the nonsense. They simply have to acknowledge the timeline, and I think that is all they are going to do. Nods back to the PT will be subtle and insignificant. Anything outside of the Skywalker family is going to basically be left to history.

 

[TMBTM]

^ This. I'm going to be pissed if Snoke turns out to be Plagueis. I'm confident that he isn't, because it seems like such a big (dumb) part of the PT, and that the new team wouldn't want to rehash that. The main objective for the continuation so far seems to have been: reset it back to the basic underlying themes, while giving us another look at the original characters we love (for a short period). Obviously the PT is canon according to Disney, but that doesn't mean they have to adhere to all the nonsense. They simply have to acknowledge the timeline, and I think that is all they are going to do. Nods back to the PT will be subtle and insignificant. Anything outside of the Skywalker family is going to basically be left to history.

Ah, something we disagree this time
I'd like if Snoke is Plagueis and while I agree that the goal of TFA was to make the fans forget about the PT, I think that the overall saga should have connection in some ways.
From the good guys we have the son of Leia and Han, who is not so "good" for now!, (no need for Rey to be Luke's daughter though), and for the bad guys we can have Plagueis who is waiting somewhere in the "canon room" for the writers to use him. I would find interesting to have someone who was simply mentioned in Episode 3 to be relvealed in Episode 8. It would be like Jabba being talked about in Episode 4 and 5 and revealed in Episode 6 (not counting the SE added scene, of course...)
Let's say that I would find logical if Snoke is Plagueis.

But one thing that could give you a point for Snoke being someone else is that interview of Kasdan where he's saying that he does not care about what is canon or not (so it sounds like he does not want to look back). PLUS there was a video of a panel with JJ, some actors and Kasdan and a question was asked about Plagueis and Kasdan really seemed genuinely lost about what that name was. To the point where JJ had to take the mic and said "Kasdan is playing with you, blah blah blah". and just deviated the conversation on something else. So it could be seen as a way to avoid talking about Plagueis, but I really had the feeling that Kasdan was a bit confused.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

There are plenty of connections to the PT, and I'll bet that those that will be referenced in the Sequel Trilogy will only be those that refer to the Skywalker family (aside from generic mentions of things like the clone wars). That is really all they have to keep. When you boil down the entire saga from George's perspective (regardless of which/when this perspective occurs) it is about the path of Anakin Skywalker and his family. That is being maintained for the sequels. But none of the other silliness has to be kept. The timeline can stay canon, but we can forget about silly things like farting gungans, midichlorians, virgin births, and tiresome politics.

 

[TV's Frink]

Farting Gungans was my college band's second album. It sold poorly.

 

[Q2F]

I'm in agreement with TMBTM. I would like Snoke to be Plagueis since that was one of the few interesting things from the prequels.

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

Hasn't Abrams come out and flatly said Snoke is NOT Plageous (sp?)? I mean I k ow he did that with Khan, but he has also said he mishandled that and would do it differently if he could do it over.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

Farting Gungans was my college band's second album. It sold poorly.

I'd be lying if I said I was never in a band named after something in Star Wars (let's not discuss song titles)

 

[Moe_Syzlak]

Farting Gungans & the Analogchlorians.

(I'll show myself out)

 

[TV's Frink]

I'd be lying if I said I was never in a band named after something in Star Wars (let's not discuss song titles)

That would make a fun thread. Band and song names you are now embarrassed of.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

Band names are rarely good.

 

[theforce]

Hasn't Abrams come out and flatly said Snoke is NOT Plageous (sp?)? I mean I k ow he did that with Khan, but he has also said he mishandled that and would do it differently if he could do it over.

You mean the same JJ Abrahams that lied about no Khan in Star Trek???

The truth is I think it probably would have been smarter just to say upfront ‘This is who it is.’ It was only trying to preserve the fun of it, and it might have given more time to acclimate and accept that’s what the thing was. The truth is because it was so important to the studio that we not angle this thing for existing fans. If we said it was Khan, it would feel like you’ve really got to know what Star Trek is about to see this movie. That would have been limiting. I can understand their argument to try to keep that quiet, but I do wonder if it would have seemed a little bit less like an attempt at deception if we had just come out with it.

http://filmschoolrejects.com/opinio...idea-even-though-he-had-to-lie-about-khan.php


He could be doing it again for Plageius....

 

[TV's Frink]

IIRC he said that was a mistake and he wouldn't do that again. Although he could be Ben Kenobi-ing it...

 

[TomH1138]

This is my opinion, but for me if Snoke is just Snoke, a character just created for the sake of having a bad who has no connection to episodes 1 to 6, then for me it would water down the series and would show Disney's misinterpretation of the Saga and would just make these sequel trilogies watered down.

You make an excellent point, and I think I see your side of it. I certainly don't mind if there is some kind of reveal regarding Snoke -- the fact that we've only seen him as a hologram suggests that there is some mystery to be discovered. It's just Plagueis in particular that I don't want it to turn out to be. If he wasn't really dead after Palpatine attacked him, why did he go into hiding for 60 years? Why didn't he just go find Palpatine and try to kill him as revenge?

The reveal could turn out to be someone we just met in this trilogy, or someone that we'll meet in Ep. VIII -- perhaps a close confidant of the Resistance who's actually secretly undermining them. Then we still get the power of the reveal, and the surprise of the betrayal (if it's handled right), without having to bring back a character from the dead.

As for the comments about

Regarding Marquand's statement from 1983, it sounds like the "supreme intellect" behind everything that was happening was the Emperor, and that reveal has already been made. He does say "final trilogy" instead of "final film of the trilogy," but he refers to someone who can manipulate both Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, and the Emperor was capable of both of those things.

Maybe if I read the whole interview, I would see it differently, but based on the comments I'm reading here, it sounds like Marquand was simply teasing the events of RotJ.

I think that the Darth Plagueis book is wonderful, but sadly, it was written before the Lucasfilm purchase, and like all other books from that period, it's been wiped from the canon. Maybe elements of it will come back, though (the way that the Kiber Crystal got brought into the Clone Wars animated series, for instance).


Which Snoke is the "Supreme" Intellect and if it turns out to be plagueis...it would turn out well for me anyway....and it wouldn't be a fake in that sense, because Palpatine did mention he could cheat death....there is the setup left ambiguous. from episode 1...to be revealed in the final trilogy (The Third Act)

But Disney being Disney, will play it safe like they did with The Force Awakens and will not be as bold. I hope I am totally wrong about this statement....but we shall see.

I believe that the Darth Plageuis book is still Canon...but I am not fully sure from the LucasFilm website.

P.S. I didn't really like the midichlorians...I like the force to be mystical...but here is a better explanation of them that sits well with me:[/QUOTE]

 

[theforce]

You make an excellent point, and I think I see your side of it. I certainly don't mind if there is some kind of reveal regarding Snoke -- the fact that we've only seen him as a hologram suggests that there is some mystery to be discovered. It's just Plagueis in particular that I don't want it to turn out to be. If he wasn't really dead after Palpatine attacked him, why did he go into hiding for 60 years? Why didn't he just go find Palpatine and try to kill him as revenge?

The reveal could turn out to be someone we just met in this trilogy, or someone that we'll meet in Ep. VIII -- perhaps a close confidant of the Resistance who's actually secretly undermining them. Then we still get the power of the reveal, and the surprise of the betrayal (if it's handled right), without having to bring back a character from the dead.

As for the comments about

TomH1138, i like your idea also. That would be interesting too. But I do agree that Snoke should be someone familiar. I just don't like the idea of a random bad guy in Snoke. There should be a tie in to the previous episodes in my opinion. I doesn't have to be plageuis....but it would be cool...because I loved that scene in Episode 3 when Palpatine recounts it

Here is some fan faction that i put in a spoiler tag because its long. Its not my theory. I found this on a Star Wars Forum

Reveal message

If Plagueis thinks that the Force is striking back against him, it does seem to imply that he didn’t create Anakin, true. But for the Force to strike back, he would certainly have to have done something for the Force to strike back against… It’s just logical. Plagueis did something, and he assumes that Anakin was the Force’s retaliation.

Which is really interesting, because it means that Plagueis created a great imbalance in the Force which remains unhealed. To be honest, I think that disturbance is going to play a large role in the ST, one way or another.

I don’t really know where I stand on the Plagueis debate. I have a feeling he won’t be in the film, as much as I think it would be interesting. However, if he were going to be in it… this is how I think it could be done:

[FONT=&amp]Beyond Death[/FONT]
If Plagueis comes back, then I think he will do it by exploiting the very disturbance he caused. That imbalance, the wound, in connection with his life’s work, allows him to travel back from the Netherworld. Why does it happen so many years later? I actually think he came back much earlier, and that Palpatine sensed it.

When Plagueis returned by the wound in the Force, the Dark Side came flooding out with him, such that Sidious could sense the outpouring and believed it to be the source of his power, a partially correct observation, since the rift in the Force is indeed what caused his power to be so great. The source of his power, the disturbance that Plagueis had created.

Possibly the Acolytes of the Beyond are not from beyond the universe, but students of that which lies beyond death, of a direct, uninhibited connection to the raw Force. Conveniently, or perhaps deliberately, channeling through midi-chlorians can become a thing of the past.

[FONT=&amp]Fulfilling the Prophecy[/FONT]
But, if Anakin brought balance to the Force, how is any of this even a consideration? As the Force was damaged, so too was the prophecy, the will of the Force, damaged. To bring the prophecy of the Chosen One to fruition, the Force itself must be repaired. The Chosen One isn’t a single person—it is the chosen vessel of the Force.

This is considerably elegant, because it creates an easy way for the protagonists to prevent Plagueis from returning again, by healing the wound in the Force. It also creates a nice parallel, that the Skywalker line came into being as a response to this disturbance, and that their story is completed over several films by healing it and banishing the being that caused the disruption. A fulfilled saga.

[FONT=&amp]Starkiller Base[/FONT]
All of this gives the returned Plagueis a clear goal: make certain that the Force can never strike back again. This goal includes getting rid of the Skywalker line, and then further wounding the Force to corrupt it permanently. How is that possible, if you know that the Force must strike back? You control that circumstances around which the Force awakens.

Which means, to entrap the ones chosen to oppose you by the Force, you must threaten to greatly exacerbate the damage to the Force. This is the function of Starkiller Base, a Starkiller to kill the Skywalkers, and to so corrupt the Force that it is never able again to strike back.

 

[TMBTM]

Disney Releases ‘The Force Awakens’ Oscar Promo Album with +13 minutes of Previously Unreleased Music

http://www.waltdisneystudiosawards.com/#/star-wars/music