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Star Wars - The Force Awakens (SPOILERS Thread)

TM2YC said:
It also occured to me that Rey is pretty much the exact same character as Anakin was in TPM... only well written and well acted ;-).

This. All the reviews are saying Rey plays Luke Skywalker's role in the new movie. But Luke was pretty much George Lucas as a teen in Modesto, California. He played with his hot rods, he hung out with his friends, he dreamed about leaving the sticks and doing something big with his life in the big wide world.

Child Anakin was in some kind of benign servitude situation, Rey was in an even more desperate situation & living like a refugee. Both of them were ultra competent with all machines, and emotion-wise they were totally self contained. Luke was like a friendly innocent puppy, Anakin and Rey were like friendly but canny alley cats. Luke has to learn Force powers the hard way, Anakin and Rey just have to be awakened to their powers.

It's not all that simple, though. The motive that launched Luke's journey was revenge, the motive that launched Rey's journey was mercy and heroism (not selling BB-8, saving Fin multiple times). As for Anakin... well his character was so poorly written we don't know what motive launched his journey but I guess it was obedience and a desire for adventure.
 
You know, it never occurred to me that they would be so lazy as to have the plot based around a rag-tag bunch of Rebels who destroy a Death Star-type thing for a third time. I mean, yeah, it was good fun and all. And it was certainly better than the prequels. But what the hell? Is that all that happens in this universe? Bad guys build planets that blow up other planets and the good guys blow them up? Lather, rinse, repeat?
 
Adabisi said:
plot based around a rag-tag bunch of Rebels who destroy a Death Star-type thing

I'd disagree with the words "based around". The word "featured" would be more appropriate IMHO. Afterall, the Starkiller base threat doesn't feature until a long time into the movie and it's not even the motivation that Finn has to rescue his friend (Unlike in SW and ROTJ where destroying it is the goal of mostly everyone from the start). I'd probably agree that the movie would have been better with something different/new but it did serve the simple purpose of reseting the good guys back to the underdogs.
 
Brumous said:
)As for Anakin... well his character was so poorly written we don't know what motive launched his journey but I guess it was obedience and a desire for adventure.

Sex. "Just being around her again is... Intoxicating." That says it all.
 
Adabisi said:
You know, it never occurred to me that they would be so lazy as to have the plot based around a rag-tag bunch of Rebels who destroy a Death Star-type thing for a third time. I mean, yeah, it was good fun and all. And it was certainly better than the prequels. But what the hell? Is that all that happens in this universe? Bad guys build planets that blow up other planets and the good guys blow them up? Lather, rinse, repeat?

In my wait for teh movie, I hated the idea, but seeing it in implementation and hearing the rebels almost make fun of the New Order for not even coming with a new idea .... I loved it.
 
TM2YC said:
It also occured to me that Rey is pretty much the exact same character as Anakin was in TPM... only well written and well acted ;-).
Agreed. Imagine if Anakin had been left to his own devices on Tatooine and grown up there. Pilot, yes, great with tech, yes, handy in a scrap, yes, and playing with the force sub-consciously for her entire life.
 
revel911 said:
In my wait for teh movie, I hated the idea, but seeing it in implementation and hearing the rebels almost make fun of the New Order for not even coming with a new idea .... I loved it.

True.
Well, I did not "love" a third death star, at all, and a simple base with an army in construction would have been better, just because you would not think "AGAIN?"; BUT it's true that's it is turned in a way where you feel the filmakers are telling the audience "yes, we DARE making a third death star and have fun with it. We are not ashamed of our love for SW and we are going to pay homage until the end!".

The third Death Star is really just the tip of Iceberg in matter of reference and homages. It was the thing that was too much for many people even though it turns out that this StarKiller base is not as big of a deal as the original death Stars (in terms of plot I mean.) , what's important is what happens with the characters on the ground (Like in ROTJ you could say...) so it's all right. But like Adabisi said, it's chocking they dared using a third time the same trick. They knew everyone would point the finger on this and yet they still did it.
But the more I think about it the more I'm glad they threw all the references and homages possible on this first movie, so I hope the other two would probably have more originality in the script. At least that's what most people will think and so I hope that's what they planned.
It is true that the only thing that prevented me to like this movie as much as the original trilogy is that the script is pretty much what I thought George Lucas could have come with in his early drafts that he sold to Disney and that they did not use (or so they said). But at the same time I was just pleased to witness true Star Wars again and it gives me hope for Episode 8. So it's mission accomplished.

EDIT: oh and I liked that the base sucked the energy of the stars to use their power. That was a good original idea.
 
Q2 said:
Sex. "Just being around her again is... Intoxicating." That says it all.

To clarify what I was saying, I was only talking about child Anakin in TPM. There's no similarity at all between Ep 2/3 Anakin and Rey.

revel911 said:
In my wait for teh movie, I hated the idea, but seeing it in implementation and hearing the rebels almost make fun of the New Order for not even coming with a new idea .... I loved it.

It does sort of ring true to the real world... big bureaucracies are stuck in repeating the same dumb ideas over and over and have problems learning from mistakes. Snoke had a lot of contractor pals who had to get paid, ya know.
 
Brumous said:
To clarify what I was saying, I was only talking about child Anakin in TPM. There's no similarity at all between Ep 2/3 Anakin and Rey.

Well, if we're focusing just on TPM then the movie isn't about Anakin at all. You don't introduce the main protagonist halfway into a movie.
 
Okay. Great thoughts from everyone. I disagreed with very little of what was said here, and even those thoughts were well-written and eloquent. The two I probably agreed with the most were Zarius and TMBTM .

Now, random thoughts of my own:

--I don’t mind Lucasfilm throwing out the EU, a lot of which wasn’t very good and which would have weighed the new stories down unnecessarily. But why the decision to remake A New Hope point for point? Why open up the entire playing field just to do a rehash? It’s the same problem with Star Trek into Darkness: “We can finally tell new stories with these iconic characters, but let’s just do a rerun instead.” There’s nothing as interesting here as (some aspects of) the Thrawn trilogy, or the Yuuzhan Vong, or the Knights of the Old Republic story.

--When Han was killed, part of my reaction was less heartbreak than, “Oh. So that is why Harrison Ford agreed to do this, so that he could finally get the death scene he wanted in Return of the Jedi.” I figured that one OT character had to go, in order to increase the dramatic stakes. (If every classic character is safe, then there’s no sense of urgency or conflict.) That in itself is good and smart. But when it happened, part of me was simply mentally checking off a box in my head – “Yep, there it is” – rather than being fully engaged in the story.

--That being said, I really wanted to see Kylo Ren taken down and sorely defeated after that, which I got. The audience (including me) was cheering as he was getting his butt kicked in the lightsaber scene. Han’s death did accomplish what it was supposed to accomplish, turning Kylo Ren into a credible threat.

--And yet, another good point, this villain wasn’t killed off before the end of the film, the way Darth Maul was wasted in Ep. I.

--Speaking of Kylo Ren, he wasn’t much of a threat until that last scene. The way he tore up machines and inanimate objects instead of people made him more laughable than frightening (although it was a great moment when he was tearing up that machine and the stormtroopers just backed away slowly).

--People seem to think that Rey is Anakin, and I can see the connections, but to me, Kylo Ren is the new Anakin: the hothead who can’t control his temper and is tempted by the Dark Side. The story seems to be a deliberate reversal of Anakin’s journey: Instead of someone who falls to the Dark Side and is eventually redeemed, Kylo Ren is already part of the Dark Side, but his internal struggles seem to be giving way to the darkness. Killing his own father seemed to be what he needed to do to cement his path (which is why he thanks Han in that moment).

--Back to Han. What a magnificient character arc. When the movies started, this Solo was indeed a loner who only thought of himself and was very skeptical of the larger unseen world. Now, he accepts the proofs that he’s seen of the Force, and ultimately, he dies selflessly as he tries to save his son.

--And how nice is it that we’ll see the character again in a standalone movie in a few years? Originally I assumed the story would be about his younger days before joining the Rebellion, but now I think it’ll be about the post-Return of the Jedi gap, finding out exactly what happened between him, Leia, Luke and their son Ben.

--Maybe we’ll see more of the Knights of Ren to understand the reason for their existence, but for now, I see no reason why they couldn’t simply be called Sith or Dark Jedi. It seems to be just another name for the same thing.

--Since the Republic is supposed to be the ruling power, it seemed very strange that we never saw any signs of them actually being in control. The Resistance is this little thing being done in hiding. Why do they have to hide if they’re in charge? The First Order seemed to be far more in charge with that big assambly they had. It’s like the determine to remake A New Hope was so strong that characters were just being forced into positions that made no sense with the history we were given.

--I was so excited when I heard new (or re-recorded) Luke Skywalker dialogue in the previews, and I was very disappointed to find out that he actually has nothing to say in the movie at all. Indeed, I relate more to Luke Skywalker than any other character, and I looked forward to seeing him the most. And now, after waiting so long ... I still have to wait until Ep. VIII to see what I came to this movie for in the first place. Ugh.

--Threepio is better used here than he was in the prequels. He has some genuinely funny moments, and he gives some important plot exposition. Still, this protocol droid who repeatedly reminds us that he’s fluent in over six million forms of communication doesn’t translate any languages here other than the droids. Granted, he doesn’t really do that function much in the OT, either. Return of the Jedi is the only place where he’s really called on to do that. But it just seems weird that a translator droid is so rarely used for that function. Still, his use here was better than the prequels, where it was nothing, nothing and more nothing.

--I liked the reuse of certain iconic themes from John Williams, but none of the new themes stood out or were memorable. Where was this movie’s “Duel of the Fates”?

--Ian Chiang continues to do the visual design for these movies, as he did for the prequels, and I continue to not like those designs. He’s clearly very talented, but his designs just don’t feel Star Wars-y enough for me. Other than BB-8, which bears a heavy Ralph McQuarrie influence, I don’t want to collect any action figures based on the new characters.

--I was surprised that the Death Star (whoops, “Starkiller Base”) was blown up so quickly in this one. I didn’t want to see it, but if it’s going to be used, I would think they would not repeat the mistakes of the OT and save its destruction for the final episode. I hope the filmmakers have something better in mind than just another Starkiller Base.

--I still have no idea what the title “The Force Awakens” means. Why does Rey using the Force awaken it anymore than any other Force users over the years?

--BTW, if Luke trained a whole bunch of Jedi post-RotJ, where are the rest of them? Hopefully, further installments will enlighten us about this.

--The CGI was terrible on Andy Serkis’ character, and Snoke is an unmemorable name.

--Respected actor Max von Sydow gave a surprisingly wooden performance, as did Domhnall Gleeson as the generic Imperial general.

--The most positive thing I can say about the movie: In the car on the way to see the film, my teenage stepson said that he wasn’t that into Star Wars, but on the way out, he said that this was his favorite film ever and that he wanted to get into Star Wars as much I do. So for that, I thank JJ Abrams and crew!

Here are my ratings, including the earlier films for comparison purposes:

The original Star Wars trilogy: 5 stars out of 5 for each

The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones: 2 stars each

Revenge of the Sith: 2.5 stars

The Force Awakens: 3.5 stars
 
Into Darkness was on tv last night and I decided to watch a bit of it. It's funny how similar the nods and winks are to TFA. It's not Spock that sacrifices himself, it's Kirk. It's not a Death Star, it a Starkiller. It's not Tatooine, it's Jakku. Abrams was absolutely eviscerated for Into Darkness, but most are willing to forgive it with TFA. I wonder if that has more to do with the differences in the respective franchises or in the overall execution.
 
jerick said:
One of the most interesting things about the new movie to me at least is the character of Finn. He doesn't fit any of the hero tropes, he's not particularly good at anything or strong as a person or brave. He is both flawed and weak but also endearing

(Update: Oops, I thought you meant Ren when you said Finn. Haha. Finn was not as well developed as Ren, but the following arguments really hold true for both characters.)

Yes! I am so glad to hear somebody else say this. I loved his more nuanced character. He was by far the most 3 dimensional and interesting character in this movie.

Maybe I am just getting old. Don't get me wrong, I love all the old Star Wars serial tropes and super evil sith baddies. However, I would argue that a big reason Star Wars has been so enduring is that it is also very philosophically instructive. It explores how to be a good human being and how good people can fall from grace. Lucas's prequels missed the mark here a bit IMO.

I would love to see a bit more realistic character development in this regard than Lucas was able to provide in the prequels, and Finn so far is a good start. There is no doubt in my mind that SW movies can be thoughtful movies for teens and adults while still being hella fun for kids. Why is Empire the best? This is why Empire is the best.
 
I think it plays better the second time. I'd rank it as comfortably the third best SW movie.

The only aspect that bugged me was the map, and specifically why Artoo woke up at the end, which is not explained at all - and given that the map was the macguffin of the movie it needed an explanation.

From an EW article about the movie Abrams does explain it, sort of, but it's not very satisfactory:

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”



Surely having Luke wake Artoo up would have made more sense. After he sensed Han's death Luke decided he needed to be found and set things right.
 
Why all the R2 criticism?? What is wrong with the idea that R2 was programmed to wake up once the other part of the map was discovered? Alternatively, Luke has been keeping tabs on everything via force sense or otherwise and decided it was time to be discovered so he wakes up R2. Either makes perfect sense to me and is a cool story idea.

There are many unbelievable things in this movie. R2 was not at all one of them for me.
 
How come nobody is criticizing Abrams breaking one of the only rules in the Star Wars universe not once but twice! Whatever happened to the whole "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops boy!"

Though I shouldn't be surprised after he destroyed the entire Star Trek Universe with his lazy plot device of interplanetary transporter technology. What is the F#$%@ point of Star Trek if there is no longer any need for starships!!!!
 
geminigod said:
Why all the R2 criticism?? What is wrong with the idea that R2 was programmed to wake up once the other part of the map was discovered? Alternatively, Luke has been keeping tabs on everything via force sense or otherwise and decided it was time to be discovered so he wakes up R2. Either makes perfect sense to me and is a cool story idea.

There are many unbelievable things in this movie. R2 was not at all one of them for me.

I can't speak for others but I'm not complaining about Artoo, I'm complaining about how the map storyline was resolved by Artoo. The map is the central macguffin of the movie, it's superficially the driving force of the whole film... and it gets resolved without any proper explanation when Artoo wakes up from a long coma, somehow or other. I understand that JJ likes to keep his films moving but this is another example of him sacrificing story coherence for pacing.

I don't think it's an unreasonable criticism.
 
geminigod said:
Why all the R2 criticism?? What is wrong with the idea that R2 was programmed to wake up once the other part of the map was discovered? Alternatively, Luke has been keeping tabs on everything via force sense or otherwise and decided it was time to be discovered so he wakes up R2. Either makes perfect sense to me and is a cool story idea.

There are many unbelievable things in this movie. R2 was not at all one of them for me.

Then why wouldn't it have woken up the FIRST time BB8 walked up to it with the map? If that was the case, I would be complaining a lot less.
 
TomH1138 said:
sn’t much of a threat until that last scene. The way he tore up machines and inanimate objects instead of people made him more laughable than frightening (although it was a great moment when he was tearing up that machine and the stormtroopers just backed away slowly).

--Since the Republic is supposed to be the ruling power, it seemed very strange that we never saw any signs of them actually being in control. The Resistance is this little thing being done in hiding. Why do they have to hide if they’re in charge? The First Order seemed to be far more in charge with that big assambly they had. It’s like the determine to remake A New Hope was so strong that characters were just being forced into positions that made no sense with the history we were given.

--I still have no idea what the title “The Force Awakens” means. Why does Rey using the Force awaken it anymore than any other Force users over the years?

--BTW, if Luke trained a whole bunch of Jedi post-RotJ, where are the rest of them? Hopefully, further installments will enlighten us about this.

--The CGI was terrible on Andy Serkis’ character, and Snoke is an unmemorable name.

1. They quickly show how powerful Ren is when he stops the blaster bolt. He is bratty and undisciplined, but he has some training and is powerful.
2. They mention it in the film ..... kinda, it is a quick mention so I see why people are missing this. The Republic has separated themselves from any fighting, so the Resistance is doing the fighting on their own. In the movie they talk about how the Resistance has backers from the New Republic.
3. I think it is called Force Awakens because the story really is about Ren's (the stories main character) awakening making the story very personal to being about her.
4. This one was told, Ren killed all of Luke's other pupils .... it is why Luke removed himself from society.
5. I was 100% agreeing with you on Snoke, till it is a hologram. Until I see Snoke in full motion, the bad cgi thing isn't bothering me.

I am surprised, by only a 3.5 Star review, or maybe I am more surprised by giving Jedi a 5 star review when it has far more flaws than this movie.
 
I think BB8 had a Rambaldi Sphere called the "Rabbit's Foot" that activated a light at the heart of the island that Luke was on causing Artoo to activate and give up the map...for some reason.
 
revel911 said:
4. This one was told, Ren killed all of Luke's other pupils .... it is why Luke removed himself from society.

Was it? I must have missed that one. I thought the "Knights of Ren" (Who we see in Rey's flashback/forward) were maybe those pupils. Ren turned them to evil like the ringwraiths or something.
 
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