• Most new users don't bother reading our rules. Here's the one that is ignored almost immediately upon signup: DO NOT ASK FOR FANEDIT LINKS PUBLICLY. First, read the FAQ. Seriously. What you want is there. You can also send a message to the editor. If that doesn't work THEN post in the Trade & Request forum. Anywhere else and it will be deleted and an infraction will be issued.
  • If this is your first time here please read our FAQ and Rules pages. They have some useful information that will get us all off on the right foot, especially our Own the Source rule. If you do not understand any of these rules send a private message to one of our staff for further details.
  • Please read our Rules & Guidelines

    Read BEFORE posting Trades & Request

Announcement regarding my future on FE.org

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So here is the private conversation between @krausfadr, @DigModiFicaTion, and me. Normally we don't share private conversations but since all parties agreed to making it public we are doing that. I took screenshots of the conversation instead of just copying and pasting so no one would think something was edited. The only thing altered was I blacked out the receipt krausfadr provided. You probably wouldn't have been able to read it anyhow, but I decided having it visible wasn't relevant. So judge for yourself if this was handled appropriately or not. I'm sure if there is constructive criticism on how it could have been handled better, all parties would be open to comments.

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I probably don’t need to chime in, but because I like the mods and think they do their job well, the whole cat and mouse accusation is ridiculous. Q2 asked if they ripped their source or downloaded it and if so from where, and anime guy started being all coy and avoiding giving a straight answer. “If one knows how to use the Internet, if one knows how to download things securely” yada yada yada. All Q2 wanted was to know if his sources were legally obtained, they weren’t, thread was closed and he was banned for a month (at least. With the info that he started threatening a mod, I’m sure he’s gone for good). Anywho, yeah I never saw the 15 days rule, so if that’s added, I think this whole (pretty dramatic) thread is taken care of.
 
I don't know anything about ddark94 but it sounds like he did not respect the rules of this forum.
 
For Krasfadr interaction, I can definitely see how both sides can "feel" right from their own perspective.
  • I completely understand how the initial 4k questioning felt like a misdirect about something else, the "investigation," and I don't fault Krasfadr in how you responded at all.
  • I also can see how not being clear enough earlier that he bought it from Apple and were getting around the DRM issue for your proxy could lead some to read his replies as trying to avoid where your source was.
I wish both sides could see the same, and chalk this all up to a misunderstanding in communication.

I do love this site for what it can be, and I do hate the flack it gets for having too high of a bar to get approved, but I personally have been trying to work on that - trying to review and approve more awaiting edits.

I just wish our communications could begin with maybe more understanding, compassion, and with a "spirit of help" rather than the "policing" vibe. Text communication is very easy to mis-interpret, and I think a lot of issues that arise are not intended.

Kill 'em with kindness is my motto. I hope Krausfadr and Motleycat stick around to help try to foster what we want out of this community, even speaking up is change for the better.
 
TinyBreadMouse said:
I knew I read it on here somewhere, as I knew of the rule already. It was definitely listed, just not where it would have made the most impact.
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I’m not even a fan editor but I’m here frequently and definitely remember it. It was pretty well discussed when it was instituted. But I agree it should be in the rules. But an oversight like that amongst volunteer moderators and admins is totally understandable. I’ve also never seen anyone get in “trouble” for missing a rule, even core principle rules. It’s usually just a friendly reminder with a link to the rules and, at most, a locked thread.
 
Thanks Wakeupkeo for the above comment. I agree.

DominicCobb said:
The own the source rule exists for a reason. It's not just something we put up for the sake of it. We take it seriously because it is a serious matter. The site has been shut down in the past because of it. Other sites have been shut down because of it. There is no one editor's vanity that is worth more than the continued existence of the site...
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I agree with all the above note from DominicCobb very much with a slight but important distinction. The main reason sites had to shut down or temporarily shut down was because links to download edits were readily and publicly available. If my take is wrong, please correct me. So while owning the source is a vital rule which must be followed, the normal activity which goes on in the Trades and Requests portion of the forum is a much more highly questionable gray area of people still talking about links which exist technically on this forum's servers. This I find much more dangerous.
 
Ha! Seeing the announcement about the 15 days rule totally reminds me of why it was such a discussion on this site. It was during the hatestorm that followed The Last Jedi. There were seemingly dozens of edits set to be released the day purchase was available. I, personally, think the 15 day rule also serves another purpose. It allows time for editors to share clips and get feedback. Sharing ideas in ideas threads is one thing but seeing how the edit actually flows is quite another. I’d wager that the most highly rated versions of popularly edited movies are the ones that have had the benefit of seeing other edits and/or shared clips and received feedback.
 
Not every prong of the Fair Use argument can be fully implemented, especially with the very substantial portion of the source material typically used. A huge factor of the Fair Use is a detrimental impact on sales which is where owning the original source rule really comes into play. So while fanedits will probably never be considered an example of Fair Use-- as many avenues of the Fair Use argument should be covered as possible, so owning the source is big factor as well as the 15 day rule. Though really a studio could easily reject that 15 days as reasonable and say it needs to be 30 or a even year. They can demand whatever they want since there aren't clearly established rules on the issue, creating an atmosphere of fear. This forum should endeavor not to have the same atmosphere.
 
krausfadr said:
Not every prong of the Fair Use argument can be fully implemented, especially with the very substantial portion of the source material typically used. A huge factor of the Fair Use is a detrimental impact on sales which is where owning the original source rule really comes into play. So while fanedits will probably never be considered an example of Fair Use-- as many avenues of the Fair Use argument should be covered as possible, so owning the source is big factor as well as the 15 day rule. Though really a studio could easily reject that 15 days as reasonable and say it needs to be 30 or a even year. They can demand whatever they want since there aren't clearly established rules on the issue, creating an atmosphere of fear. This forum should endeavor not to have the same atmosphere.
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I mean, I guess this is a discussion, so yeah… thanks for sharing. But it also seems like this thread was initiated with the intent of throwing the mods under the spotlight for the rules. The rules that mostly have existed as long as I’ve been coming here. No one, fan editor or not, has any obligation to visit this site or list their edits on the database. But if you wish to do so, you do it at the pleasure of the site owners and moderator representatives. Their site, their rules. This strikes me as similar to the straw man of the free speech arguments that contend that any speech should be free of consequences. That’s just not the way things work.
 
As much as I appreciate the mods here, I feel like in this particular exchange they could've handled things better. As far as I can tell, it appears as though at times they didn't entirely understand what krausfadr was saying. Krausfadr's frustration here is entirely justifiable imo. I don't mean to bash the mods, I just hope that they can reevaluate the exchange and learn from it to improve communication moving forward.

Edit: While my point generally still stands, upon rereading I do see the mods' perspective a bit more clearly, and I do understand some of their confusion and misunderstanding.
 
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krausfadr said:
I don't know anything about ddark94 but it sounds like he did not respect the rules of this forum.
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I do appreciate you taking the high road and not threatening us via PM. :)
Wakeupkeo said:
I hope Krausfadr and Motleycat stick around to help try to foster what we want out of this community, even speaking up is change for the better.
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Me too. They were both active and passionate members of the community. Also, if Krausfadr ever wants his faneditor badge back he just needs to let me know.
 
This is something I've seen in literally every forum that has a ruleset that must be adhered to.

Both users choosing to leave on their own is the best way this could have ended, I think. I'd say other than them sticking around, but some folks just aren't good at following rules or conforming to a community, and this seems like a clear case of that. Reddit/Twitter/YouTube will be just fine for them to share their work and get feedback.
 
Q2 I really appreciate you being open about all this. Thank you for hearing me out. I have always noted one of the rules is not to argue with staff, and I tried very hard to follow that.

And thanks Digmodifcation for letting this be transparent as well.

I'll take TinyBreadMouse's feedback and try to be a better community member. Though "conforming" is not a word that really fits me I suppose.

Q2, I would be honored to take the faneditor bage back as it's something that really meant/means something to me.
 
orchidal said:
Q2 uprooted that newish anime editor ddark94 like some virtual Hans Landa. could've been done in ways less domineeringly eager to persecute through DMs with the same results surely.
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One thing we're not going to do right now is call an admin a Nazi for upholding the site's most basic and important rule. And I forgive you for not knowing the scope of the situation but Q2 reached out to the editor in private to discuss the situation. Often these things happen and the editor apologizes, and no one outside of these PMs is any the wiser about anything happening. In this case the editor was extremely hostile towards Q2 (and dropped a number of slurs along the way) and seemed to have no interest abiding by the own the source rule. In cases like these, yes, the editor will be banned. That's not something that is going to change.
 
While I agree with your statement 100% Dominic, I went back and re-read motleycats's original post and didn't find anything to suggest he thought the rules shouldn't exist or should be negotiable. Rather his point was more about aggressive behavior whether related to rule enforcement or otherwise.
 
It seems (for me at least) like mods did everything exactly as they should in that case.
 
This might sound obvious but perhaps it would simplier for anyone who wishes to work on something pre-release to inform an admin of their intention and provide an outline of how plan to do so within the rules.

Personally, I think the onus should be on the individual to get a green light beforehand than be frustrated by a red one afterwards.
 
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