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The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Edits

Just weighing in too, I pretty much second everything @L8wrtr said. I think a white flash at that transition point would pretty much perfect this the simplest way possible. No real need to mess with the transition/effects more. Sometimes the easy road is the best road!

Also, agree with L8 about the sound balance. Fire is great at the beginning but sound needs to get turned way down. As is, it kind of sounds like Bilbo is setting his house on fire, which I assume is not the intended result!

Looks great overall, impressive stuff. Those little tweaks will make it even better!
 
Hi @Stromboli Bones, just saw this thread and your project and wanted to say thanks for the shout outs and mentions towards the Maple Edit! I have not watched your edit yet but the way you handled Smaug leaving Erebor is superior to my version. Very very well done there, and makes me wish I had done that for mine, haha.

I watched your title card intro and while it is flashy, it kind of takes me out of the film's aesthetic and style. That may be personal preference however...I like watching fan edits that don't remind me that I am watching a fan edit. The more invisible the edits and changes, the better IMO.

Nice box art BTW!
 
eldusto84 said:
Hi @Stromboli Bones, just saw this thread and your project and wanted to say thanks for the shout outs and mentions towards the Maple Edit! I have not watched your edit yet but the way you handled Smaug leaving Erebor is superior to my version. Very very well done there, and makes me wish I had done that for mine, haha.

I watched your title card intro and while it is flashy, it kind of takes me out of the film's aesthetic and style. That may be personal preference however...I like watching fan edits that don't remind me that I am watching a fan edit. The more invisible the edits and changes, the better IMO.

Nice box art BTW!
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Thanks for the kind words dude, that means a lot!

I am inclined to agree with you on the flashy title card, do you think it would be better without the fireworks sequence, and just the flames? Or better with just a static image that fades in and then out?
 
L8wrtr said:
Very cool work, great concept and visual execution.

If you're open to some constructive observations/opinions...

1) The overall visual approach is way cool with the circular dragon, then the fire swipe revealing the Title, nice use of the flames.
2) Audio really needs to be re-balanced. It's fine to have that loud crackling and swipe initially, but by the time Bilbo is narrating, that needs to have been faded waaay down from a roaring house fire to a pleasant hearth fire ;) You can use a traditional long crossfade at the end of that audio track, or use key frames (assuming your editing program uses them?) to lower it and then hold it at a sustained lower volume until it is properly faded out.
3) The blend transition to cut the audience reaction. Where I'd say the audio is a strongly suggested change, this one I guess is more about preference. Don't know which flavor of blending you're using for that transition, but it is absolutely not seamless and I think even untrained eyes are going to spot that something was removed. I'm not an fx guru so I don't know if there is a way to improve that blend, but if it were my project, I don't know that I could leave it at that.
If you're hellbent on cutting the reacting crowd, you may want to steal your own trick with how the logo is revealed.. when the firework first explodes, depending on what you have available, perhaps finding a way to have that initial explosion force a near white flash, so that as it fades back we get the dragon climbing into the sky.
Another option is to cut your darling and simply start with the circular dragon on leather, with crackling fire and go from there.

Regardless of what you do with point three (up to and including don't change a bloody thing), two observations once the logo first shows up.

1) When the leather backing fades in, we are hearing a roaring fire, but the visual is fairly static. Before even knowing what was coming, my brain was looking for ambient flicker. If it were my edit, I'd use that same flicker of amber that you use after the flame passes by the entire time.. flicker and backdrop.. then the awesome swipe of fire which leaves the title inside the circle (really love that effect! Great work!)
2) The logo is BEAUTIFUL, but the "The Battle of the Five Edits" is a tad.. smallish.. If it were mine, I'd try and increase that font if at all possible, double-stack the line? But that's just a personal preference.. it looks technically perfect and that fire transition is really awesome looking. I'd never have pulled anything like that off in my first edit, kudos.

I hope that's all taken well, this really is a great intro, the only thing I would say you absolutely should do is adjust the audio levels, everything else is preference.
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spence said:
Just weighing in too, I pretty much second everything @L8wrtr said. I think a white flash at that transition point would pretty much perfect this the simplest way possible. No real need to mess with the transition/effects more. Sometimes the easy road is the best road!

Also, agree with L8 about the sound balance. Fire is great at the beginning but sound needs to get turned way down. As is, it kind of sounds like Bilbo is setting his house on fire, which I assume is not the intended result!

Looks great overall, impressive stuff. Those little tweaks will make it even better!
Click to expand...
Thank you both so much for the feedback! I will definitely tweak this, I agree with all your critiques as things that I wasn't confident about. I'll upload a different version here and see what you both think of that!
 
Hmmm...I must correct myself. I stated that that was an awesome intro sequence because I was very impressed with your vision. However, weighing in the opinion of three legendary faneditors who have been there already, I would offer that I completely agree with L8wrtr and Spence. The intro does need the tweaking that they recommend. Follow their advice. You won't regret it.

Dustin offered very good advice, as well. But I think that works better for a singular edit. For his edit and even L8wrtr and Spences' edits, that worked beautifully. Your edit is a sum of many moving parts, however. You combine some of the best of their award winning edits with your own unique vision and as Dustin pointed out, excellent ideas. You have created from their inspiration, your own excellent art.

For that reason, I think your intro sequence should be different and more uniquely yours. But I would certainly listen to the legends. Their advice is invaluable.
 
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I didn't quite have time to finish tuning the intro before heading off to work, I'll finish it off late tonight and have it up by the AM
 
eldusto84 said:
Hi @Stromboli Bones, just saw this thread and your project and wanted to say thanks for the shout outs and mentions towards the Maple Edit! I have not watched your edit yet but the way you handled Smaug leaving Erebor is superior to my version. Very very well done there, and makes me wish I had done that for mine, haha.
Click to expand...
This is the kind of thing to be careful about when an edit is based off other edits, because to be completely fair the method of Smaug exiting with a jump cut and the following shots is something l8wrtr came up [along with me, I had never seen his] which inspired him, as mentioned in the original post / also seen with the VFX shot used from my version

 
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M4_ said:
This is the kind of thing to be careful about when an edit is based off other edits, because to be completely fair the method of Smaug exiting with a jump cut/Dwarves reacting/cut to Laketown/back to Smaug is something I came up with which he was inspired by, as mentioned in the original post / also seen with him using the VFX shot from mine, but thank you.
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I'm sorry for the confusion, I obviously have great respect for your edit. However, I feel I should point out that my inspiration for this scene comes from taking L8wrtr's version (I believe his edit came out before yours) and replacing those first few frames of Smaug busting out with the color corrected version that Eldusto used in the Maple edit.

I had not seen your edit yet when I first made this post (and my rendition of the scene in question) but I now credit you because I have since swapped out Maple's color corrected shots for your own, as I thought the VFX was superior.
 
Stromboli Bones said:
I'm sorry for the confusion, I obviously have great respect for your edit. However, I feel I should point out that my inspiration for this scene comes from taking L8wrtr's version (I believe his edit came out before yours) and replacing those first few frames of Smaug busting out with the color corrected version that Eldusto used in the Maple edit.

I had not seen your edit yet when I first made this post (and my rendition of the scene in question) but I now credit you because I have since swapped out Maple's color corrected shots for your own, as I thought the VFX was superior.
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Well, you said in your post you used a hybrid of my Smaug exit, the degree of that is up to you to clarify so I wouldn’t know what that explicitly means, the clip looks similar.

Regardless, I just personally wouldn’t take compliments on techniques derived from others, but I guess none of us own the footage in the first place, and as long as you make the final assembly of footage.

edit:
Stromboli Bones said:
It would seem that you expect me to refute the compliments
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I mean, yes, that's the point, but you're phrasing it in a weird way, there's more ways to clarify things than "refute" what they're saying.

If you didn't come up with the technique of Smaug's exit and it's from l8wrtr and then mine, like you said in the post, why is it an issue to clarify in the comments the same thing, when someone was under the impression that you came up with it? It's not an insult, it's being mindful of the original fan editor(s).
 
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M4_ said:
Well, you said in your post you used a hybrid of my Smaug exit, the degree of that is up to you to clarify so I wouldn’t have known what that explicitly meant, the clip looked similar.
Click to expand...

I have attempted to be as transparent as I can about my project. I have made no bones about from whom I borrowed; it's even in the title. It would seem that you expect me to ignore, or even or refute the compliments given to me by some of the most well-respected members of this site. That complement was directed towards a scene that I declared (and you reiterated) a hybrid of the work of L8wrtr and yourself/Maple Films. I have never taken credit for the individual scenes, but that hybridization would not exist if it weren't for my project. That is the entire purpose of my work here.

I suppose in the end you made my argument for me:

M4_ said:
but I guess none of us own the footage in the first place, and as long as you make the final assembly of footage.
Click to expand...


So I will consider this matter concluded. Thanks for your input, and best of luck with your own edit.
 
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M4_ said:
This is the kind of thing to be careful about when an edit is based off other edits, because to be completely fair the method of Smaug exiting with a jump cut/Dwarves reacting/cut to Laketown/back to Smaug is something I came up with which he was inspired by, as mentioned in the original post / also seen with him using the VFX shot from mine, but thank you.

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Always great to know where ideas and solutions come from....It would even be great to have a thread about The History of Fan Edit Innovations.

I would say that who did what, when, who was influenced, homages and more all start to come to tickle those whose imaginations, efforts and results get mixed up in the pool of talent, creativity chronology and (occasionally), well...nuff said. I recall that video when I was making my Hobbit edit.

Let's all not forget ONE THING FOLKS....

No one who modifies an official film can ever assert copyright or ownership. no matter how creative or clever the changes we make are.

We indulge in this hobby at the whim of the TRUE CREATORS; Long may that continue.

Yes we can belly ache "fair use", "transformational", "educational" and "comment" and the like, but let us all accept one thing...we feed off THE CREATORS and feeding off eachother is no different...in fact, it's the ultimate tribute we can and should all wish for (barring a Spicediver like official release) that others use "our" ideas.

I have two Start Trek WOK edits which are unreleased since I use FX by other artists who won't respond to my requests for permission. They assert copyright over the material but in fact THEY CAN'T...even though their work is original, the ship designs are owned by Paramount/CBS ergo they can't assert ownership. It's bogus, but out of respect, I don't release these. The truth is though, I could, and there is nothing they could do about it.

I would suggest that on this forum/site, we take a more open and collegiate approach than THE CREATORS might (LUCASFILM notwithstanding). This is a bit like "music sampling/mixing", and it is great when the original visionaries hold up their hand to say "my idea"...that's legit and good to know where the roots are of these moments of magic that solve problems in a film but filmakers have been using those techniques for years before we all jumped on the bandwagon. Let's ALL embrace mining eachothers work, ideas, solutions and innovations; heck, I have had many 1:1 PMs with other editors who have seen previews and clips and said "do this" or "don't do this".

WE WILL ALL BE BETTER EDITORS for it and entertain more minions to boot!
 
@eldusto84 @L8wrtr @spence @Wraith

I made two quick versions, they both have adjusted audio levels, and tried to smooth out that transition with a flare. This first one has both fonts blown up much bigger.


This second one has just TBoFE blown up


And this third one has the same font as #2 but I removed the entire fireworks bit. The fireworks/dragon sequence makes it seem a little rushed. Figured I'd give you guys a few new angles, thanks again for any input you may have!


 
1. Audio: The audio is much improved (if anything you could bring it back a smidge, but this is the right ballpark, sounds great.
2. Dragon effect: The effect itself does work perfectly to hide the cut. It does feel a tad rushed, but the use itself is perfect.
3. Which Logo: If I have to pick between the two, I'd say #2, but neither make me fully happy because of the overlap with the Dragon circle, they're competing with each other.
Depending on how that title/logo is build, again, if this were my project, I'd use the 2nd one as a size reference (I like The Hobbit fitting within the circle) but I'd break the title into two centered lines that can then be tucked between the descenders of the H and T
The Battle Of The
Five Edits

or

The Battle Of
The Five Edits
​
Like @spence I think as awesome as that dragon firework is, and additionally as great as the fix was implimented, my preference is for the last option. If the firework was say 3 seconds longer I'd say keep it, but the beat just feels too short.

Great work!
 
L8wrtr said:
1. Audio: The audio is much improved (if anything you could bring it back a smidge, but this is the right ballpark, sounds great.
2. Dragon effect: The effect itself does work perfectly to hide the cut. It does feel a tad rushed, but the use itself is perfect.
3. Which Logo: If I have to pick between the two, I'd say #2, but neither make me fully happy because of the overlap with the Dragon circle, they're competing with each other.
Depending on how that title/logo is build, again, if this were my project, I'd use the 2nd one as a size reference (I like The Hobbit fitting within the circle) but I'd break the title into two centered lines that can then be tucked between the descenders of the H and T
The Battle Of The
Five Edits

or

The Battle Of
The Five Edits
​
Like @spence I think as awesome as that dragon firework is, and additionally as great as the fix was implimented, my preference is for the last option. If the firework was say 3 seconds longer I'd say keep it, but the beat just feels too short.

Great work!
Click to expand...
I agree with everything that L8wrtr and Spence point out. But...I love that fireworks dragon sequence. Definitely, agree with point #3 that L8wrtr makes above. The logo competing with the dragon ring is a bit if a problem but it has to be that large.
 
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I also just noticed that it seems to be zoomed in and cutting off my name at the bottom, which is weird
 
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