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Star Wars EP VII: Heir to the Force (Prolonged Reveal)

Canon Editor said:
Congratulations on you accomplishing some of that!
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Please refrain from double posting so much. You can reply with two or more quotes in one post.
 
Most of the compositing is now finished. Thankfully the one shot seen in my picture didn't work from a continuity standpoint so I was able to repurpose another scene instead and place it in that position. 

Revel911 made a point about the initial scene where Snoke says "Your Father" that it gives too much of the reveal away too early. I've been mulling this around in my head and at first I supported my idea by preconceiving that it would be assumed that Kylo Ren would be linked to Luke (think back to all the hype). But, if you remove those preconceived notions, it may be more shocking if a familial connection was never mentioned. This would require cutting out future dialogue between Han and Leia, and makes Han's "running off" even more of a question. What does everyone think about this.? Would removing Snoke's reference to Kylo Ren's father result in a greater reveal? If so, would it be worth the loss of character development and backhistory between Han and Leia?

I wanted to address this idea before I go into the finalizing steps of the edit again. Thanks in advance for the feedback.
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
I'm inclined to visit revel911's idea and add that blue filtered tint to the image. I remember the first time watching the movie and seeing Snoke; I was totally taken out of the movie and thought "this isn't star wars, this is Harry Potter!" Then the image flickered out and the blue hologram filter came through. I think adding that hologram filter would achieve the purpose and make it more Star Wars-y. *adding to my to-do list*
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DMFT, I just wanted to chip in with my own appreciation for your terrific 'hologram' Snoke efforts.  Although I can see how J.J.'s 'future' version of the technology gave a clever kind of 'Oh, it's actually a hologram'  reveal at the end of Snoke's first scene...I think I'd have preferred to stick with a more familiar 'transmission' look overall.  Not only do I reckon it happens to make things look more interesting to begin with, I just think it looks more 'Star Wars-y' as you say.  Very nice work indeed.  :)

In fact, I'll look forward to seeing how all your various ideas pan out when your edit is watched as a whole eventually, as you've included a lot of worthwhile ideas in your cut-list it seems.  As to BB-8's 'thumbs up' moment however, I look on it as the same audience-pleasing (well, some of them)  equivalent of the 'mouse droid' scampering away from Chewie on the Death Star...so am content to give that particular 'fun' moment a pass for the sake of my younger family members.  :p



DigModiFicaTion said:
Revel911 made a point about the initial scene where Snoke says "Your Father" that it gives too much of the reveal away too early. I've been mulling this around in my head and at first I supported my idea by preconceiving that it would be assumed that Kylo Ren would be linked to Luke (think back to all the hype). But, if you remove those preconceived notions, it may be more shocking if a familial connection was never mentioned. This would require cutting out future dialogue between Han and Leia, and makes Han's "running off" even more of a question. What does everyone think about this.? Would removing Snoke's reference to Kylo Ren's father result in a greater reveal? If so, would it be worth the loss of character development and backhistory between Han and Leia?
Click to expand...

To be honest, I personally liked your version which only had Snoke saying "Your father..." to Kylo, as I reckon most viewers would NOT have readily guessed that he could actually be Han's son at that point in the movie, and it would have helped to prolong that revelation a bit longer until it's revealed later in the movie.  But on the other hand, I also think that the full "Your father...Han Solo..."  reveal comes across quite dramatically when it's delivered in Snoke's gravelly voice at it's current point in the movie, so I haven't settled 100% on that yet!

I'd already seen 'Noodle_Finger's edit before your clip, which removed the WHOLE of Snoke's line about Han being Kylo's father - he merely started Snoke's first scene at the point where he says "There has been an awakening..."  etc. -  and it worked well enough as a way of delaying the revelation until Han tells Leia that he's seen their son, when they meet up a little later on.  But I much prefer your fuller version of the scene, where we have Snoke delaying the reveal by saying "Your father..."  without giving it away at this point.

The alternative way which involves cutting quite a bit of Han & Leia's exchanges until Han finally reveals it when he confronts Kylo on the gantry, might work fine too...but I have a feeling that this might involve cutting TOO much of their scenes together.  But perhaps not.

So to sum up, it's down to whatever you prefer...which isn't much help I know. :-/ 

As far as your aim to 'add a helmet' to Kylo during the 'interrogation' scene with Rey, I take my hat off to you for even trying.  I've also got a re-edit of the movie in mind for myself to keep his helmet on right up until Han confronts him - but I'm content to just keep his actual APPEARANCE as the main delayed 'surprise' for myself...even if I decide to reveal his parentage much earlier on in any way - it involves keeping it on using existing footage during BOTH of my 'Snoke' scenes, as well as removing that 'interrogation' scene in a particular way so that I don't have the hassle of what you're attempting to do!  :D  

(I know I lose certain dialogue (and acting)  between Kylo and Rey by doing this, but I think it can still work effectively enough for me overall)

Good luck with your version though, as I'd definately like to check it out eventually.
 
ImperialFighter said:
DMFT, I just wanted to chip in with my own appreciation for your terrific 'hologram' Snoke efforts....Very nice work indeed.  :)
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Thanks ImperialFighter!

ImperialFighter said:
In fact, I'll look forward to seeing how all your various ideas pan out when your edit is watched as a whole eventually, as you've included a lot of worthwhile ideas in your cut-list it seems.  As to BB-8's 'thumbs up' moment however, I look on it as the same audience-pleasing (well, some of them)  equivalent of the 'mouse droid' scampering away from Chewie on the Death Star...so am content to give that particular 'fun' moment a pass for the sake of my younger family members.  :p 
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I actually ended up leaving the thumbs up in. I have come to view it in a similar way as you outlined in your post. I've made a number of additional edits that have not been updated on the cutlist yet.

I really appreciate your comments concerning my reveal question. They were actually very helpful. I wanted to have more input from the community to allow me to view revel911's idea from multiple angles. You've definitely helped me achieve that :D Thanks!

I've come to realize that I am going to need to learn how to use blender or some other 3D application if I'm going to be satisfied with scenes that have the helmeted Kylo in the interrogation scene. I thought about applying a similar approach of just removing parts of the scene, but I really felt that scene was crucial to both of their developments; Rey's introduction to using the force and Kylo's weakness. It also helps create a rift with Snoke that could possibly lead to the motivation that Kylo has to have Rey as his apprentice.

I don't quite have the backing that Adywan has so my 3D augmentations will most likely have to be sacrificed. Perhaps in a few years (if I ever get time to learn 3D modeling) I can revisit this edit and make a revisited edition of it :)

To everyone, I'm also thinking about the title. I made the thread title to give the general idea of the edit. I'm not sure if it fits as a title though. I've toyed with trying to bring the idea of mystery into the subtitle/edit name or making it focus more on Ren a la The Mystery of Ren. I don't know though. Does the title fit as is?
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
I've come to realize that I am going to need to learn how to use blender or some other 3D application if I'm going to be satisfied with scenes that have the helmeted Kylo in the interrogation scene. I thought about applying a similar approach of just removing parts of the scene, but I really felt that scene was crucial to both of their developments; Rey's introduction to using the force and Kylo's weakness. It also helps create a rift with Snoke that could possibly lead to the motivation that Kylo has to have Rey as his apprentice.

I don't quite have the backing that Adywan has so my 3D augmentations will most likely have to be sacrificed. Perhaps in a few years (if I ever get time to learn 3D modeling) I can revisit this edit and make a revisited edition of it :)

To everyone, I'm also thinking about the title. I made the thread title to give the general idea of the edit. I'm not sure if it fits as a title though. I've toyed with trying to bring the idea of mystery into the subtitle/edit name or making it focus more on Ren a la The Mystery of Ren. I don't know though. Does the title fit as is?
Click to expand...

You make some good and valid points about why the current 'interrogation' scene should be included in any version, but I still think it's possible for me to get away with removing it altogether for the sake of my own 'prolonged' reveal of Kylo's face.  As far as you keeping the 'PROLONGED REVEAL' title, I suppose it still works if you decide to not mention Snoke saying "...HAN SOLO" during his first appearance...as you've technically prolonged the reveal somewhat in that sense. 

It's a pity that 'adding the helmet' is less straightforward than you hoped for what you originally intended, and including this scene as it currently is will now differentiate your overall version from my own quite a bit.  Perhaps I might use that title if you don't, as it would refer to not seeing Kylo's FACE till much later in mine.  :p   Just kidding.  To be honest, I thought your current title referred to the 'superweapon' being fired AFTER Han's death...so I definately picked that up wrong it seems!  :blush:

However, THE FORCE AWAKENS: THE MYSTERY OF REN sounds pretty good too, if you end up going with that...but I would miss out using a 2nd 'THE' before the word 'MYSTERY' though.
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
As to knowing about Darth Vader, it's my understanding that when she resists Kylo Ren, she also pries into his mind and she sees and feels his thoughts. She sees Darth Vader and she feels his fear in not being as strong as Vader. I also have a theory that she calls upon the image (what she saw of Vader's power) to defeat Kylo Ren after he mentions the Force during the duel. This would explain her sudden aggression and fighting technique. There's no knowing what she saw, but I'd like to think that she was influenced by the dark side when she pried into Kylo's mind. Perhaps this will be a seed that leads her down a dark path in ep VIII?
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While I most likely won't include this in my edit, here's a video of what I'm talking about
 
That's interesting in that it changes the meaning of the scene but I wouldn't do it. The scene was more powerful before for other reasons.
 
The Star Wars: The Awakening of the Force: The Mystery of the Ren

starring:
Mark the Hamill
Carrie the Fisher
The Harrison of the Ford
 
ssj said:
The Star Wars: The Awakening of the Force: The Mystery of the Ren

starring:
Mark the Hamill
Carrie the Fisher
The Harrison of the Ford
Click to expand...

The best post of the day by the one and the only the ssj :p
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
ssj said:
The Star Wars: The Awakening of the Force: The Mystery of the Ren

starring:
Mark the Hamill
Carrie the Fisher
The Harrison of the Ford
Click to expand...

The best post of the day by the one and the only the ssj [emoji14]
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I don't think I've ever seen a post from ssj that wasn't a quality read. [emoji1]
 
64415303.jpg
 
Thanks again for all the input everyone.

I have one more question regarding the reveal. I'm walking through the edit and making sure all video and audio editing is clean and smooth and I happened to stop on the scene where Kylo is talking to Vader's mask. Here's my questions: Is it too revealing at this point to leave his line of "grandfather"? 
This line comes around the 56 minute mark (in this edit), so we've had a good while to wonder about him, but this line is even more leading than Snoke's edited "your father" line. Snoke's line could reference anyone, Kylo's grandfather line is very specific and means either he is a Skywalker or a Solo, well I suppose Vader could have sired an heir from some other woman...anyway, what do you think? Cut it or leave it? Pros and cons.


Here's what I personally think.
Cut pro: Preserve the mystery of Kylo Ren
Cut con: Han and Leia's lines surrounding him would essentially be useless, leading to a loss of character development

Leave pro: establishes a concrete characteristic for this faceless character; makes Han and Leia's edited dialogue later on more meaningful. There isn't really a reason for them to mention Kylo in the way they do without this early partial reveal. Han and Leia also give a good misdirect in this edit that makes the first time viewer think Kylo is Luke's son which acts to preserve the big reveal at the end.
Leave cons: may be too leading

I know this is similar to the last question, but it is different. I'd like to look at this question from multiple angles as with the other question in order to help better assess the lines' worth in the concept of this edit. What do you think?
 
A delayed reveal has merit. Imagine if there were no such reveal for yoda in episoda fiva.
 
What would YOU prefer? First and foremost, I do fanedits for myself. I take feedback from the community when working, but ultimately, what is YOUR preferred version of events?
 
Aztek463 said:
What would YOU prefer? First and foremost, I do fanedits for myself. I take feedback from the community when working, but ultimately, what is YOUR preferred version of events?
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While at the core this is definitely an edit of my preferences, I can't deny that much of the execution has been enhanced by the ideas and differing views of community members. Much of the inspiration of this edit has come from the challenge of ideas and new angles of looking at scenes. I just figured that if I was thinking "hmmm, I'm not sure if this is the best idea" that someone might be thinking the same thing and give me a reason to look at it more in depth. Ultimately, I believe that my final decision will be to leave it in for the reasons I outlined above.

As an aside, I just noticed that on my mpeg render settings the aspect ratio was set for 4:3 for some reason. I'm hoping that is why my mp4, m2ts, etc. files were rendered in this ratio. I'm not sure why that would be in the first place, but here's hoping.

*UPDATE*
Figured out the problem. So I'll be rendering a 720p tonight, reviewing it tomorrow, and then if all goes well a preview and then 1080p mp4 and BluRay files for submission.
 
Are you doing any color regrading to slightly reduce the over contrast and yellowness?
 
revel911 said:
Are you doing any color regrading to slightly reduce the over contrast and yellowness?
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I messed around witht a bit, but I wasn't really getting the results I was looking for. I'm also not really opposed to the tint of the movie overall. I do think there is too much Star Trek teal blue, but the over contrast kind of creates this movie's uniqueness; a vibrant update.

Are you using Sony vegas? If so, do you have certain settings that you are finding as favorable?
 
DigModiFicaTion said:
revel911 said:
Are you doing any color regrading to slightly reduce the over contrast and yellowness?
Click to expand...

I messed around witht a bit, but I wasn't really getting the results I was looking for. I'm also not really opposed to the tint of the movie overall. I do think there is too much Star Trek teal blue, but the over contrast kind of creates this movie's uniqueness; a vibrant update.

Are you using Sony vegas? If so, do you have certain settings that you are finding as favorable?
Click to expand...


Like I said earlier, I'd be more than happy to re color the film for ya :) being that you've already done so much with vfx, cropping, audio work etc.

As for the settings, each program obviously has different results due to different levels of control. Adobe elements (I'm a cheapskate) offers the best controls over individual colors with saturation, brightness and hues for what I achieved with my own tests
 
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