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STAR TREK II: Wrath of Khan Redux - Fan VFX Replacement Showcase - Director’s Cut
- Thread starter Wraith
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Maybe a trailer?
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Sure? Clips, trailers, whatever works for you. It just feels like you are either worried about the response in showing the examples or creating some type of hype and control model. That's personally offsetting for me. I say that without any intent of ridicule. I hesitate to invest time and bandwidth when I don't have some idea of what I'm getting into. I guess what I'm trying to say is, examples show confidence in the editing on both sides, faneditor and viewer.
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I get it and defo not trying to hype…on the contrary…I originally was going to submit an existing edit, then I realised I could go further and here I am today adding in 3 more shots. Now only 8 original vfx remain.
I haven’t shown any clips since I’m still polishing, despite my thinking it was ready. So a short trailer I think may work…if it’s too consuming, then a clip…I just HATE having to contest YouTube copyright issues every time I put up a clip…
Would everyone be ok if it is a downloadable trailer instead?
Just in case.
I haven’t shown any clips since I’m still polishing, despite my thinking it was ready. So a short trailer I think may work…if it’s too consuming, then a clip…I just HATE having to contest YouTube copyright issues every time I put up a clip…
Would everyone be ok if it is a downloadable trailer instead?
Just in case.
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That makes total sense. I'm sorry if I caused any stress by my response. I know that you are meticulous, in a good way, in your work and want to make sure it's the best it can be. That's completely admirable.
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None at all...Just the prod lazy bones here needed to make a trailer...
The trailer music has been mixed...
Tomorrow : I edit the trailer....(might even drop in the evening)
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Looks like I'm editing it all now...can't resist....it's all storyboearded in my head, and I need the space in there for other shit (like devouring a tub of Hagen Daz Belgian Chocolate as a reward when it's done!)
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Very exciting! Definitely piqued my interest.
Based on your own comment, I assume the trailer is still a work in progress but just in case...
--the pre-trailer disclaimers are too brief to read
--"major" is misspelled
--might consider going with all Upper Case lettering
--"replaced"
--nacelle light up shot is in there twice
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All noted and will be done ...Very exciting! Definitely piqued my interest.
--the pre-trailer disclaimers are too brief to read
I'm sorry your enjoyment of the disclaimer was impacted....
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ArtisDead
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The previews that you've shared with me definitely exhibit perpetual improvement...each version exponentially better than the previous one. There is certainly a difference between what i saw a year ago and what i see now. I would continue to tweak, as you do and not release anything before you feel that it is completely ready to be released. No explanation required.
Very compelling trailer, by the way.
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I consider the edit to now be LOCKED!
I have so far applied a 35mm grain to the new vfx in a uniform manner.
I will now be checking each shot individually and tweaking the grain per shot. In most cases the grain is barely noticeable if at all, but when removed, many of the new vfx “pop” visually. All have already been individually graded in regards to gamma etc for consistency but variations remain to some extent due to the myriad of sources and varied artistic approach. What I can say is that all are respectful of what an 80s Trek shot should look like. So there are no barrel rolls and crash zooms or hand held Galactica like camera shake. Furthermore, there are no JJ like lens flares and I’ve resisted the great temptation to drop any in…(though I’d love to). I did drop in a dozen or so lens flares in my CE3K edit where shots looked like they should be there but were not. These were all very subtle and easily missed. No one has yet noticed that I’m aware of.
Khan doesn’t need them.
This final pass will take a couple of weeks, and I would note that the trailer is predominantly grainless.
I will also be submitting this with an exhaustive change list, noting every replaced shot, new shots (as in no shot to replace), new audio, scoring enhancement, dialogue recovery, additional audio changes and deletions (only about 10 secs) made throughout the edit.
Some of you may be familiar with some lower right hand screen markers I have used in a few my edits to inform of such changes and or sources. Viewers appear to be divided on these. I placed these more for my own future reference, since I forget what I did when edits are dense in regards to alterations. I subsequently removed them for the available Superman edits, since they were quite noticeable.
Khan will have visual markers in the lower right out of picture but will be minuscule… since geeks may want to know but not have to refer to a printout or their device to follow onscreen and miss the action. Audio changes will be indicated by a single period “.” In pitch 2, and visual changes below it with two periods “..” in pitch 2. This shouldn’t distract anyone while keeping those who want to know, informed.
End credit roll has also been customised to credit as many of the vfx artists whose work has been compiled here, their due credit!
I’m sure every one of them had a version of Khan with their vfx incorporated, but only one made it available and limited it to their own work. With so much material now available, and for many sections there were two sometimes three choices of material to select from, I believe the time was right to collate and curate this material into a cohesive whole. I can only take credit for some minuscule vfx items, and I will flag these tiny contributions too.
Submission should be circa Dec 4th all being well.
I have so far applied a 35mm grain to the new vfx in a uniform manner.
I will now be checking each shot individually and tweaking the grain per shot. In most cases the grain is barely noticeable if at all, but when removed, many of the new vfx “pop” visually. All have already been individually graded in regards to gamma etc for consistency but variations remain to some extent due to the myriad of sources and varied artistic approach. What I can say is that all are respectful of what an 80s Trek shot should look like. So there are no barrel rolls and crash zooms or hand held Galactica like camera shake. Furthermore, there are no JJ like lens flares and I’ve resisted the great temptation to drop any in…(though I’d love to). I did drop in a dozen or so lens flares in my CE3K edit where shots looked like they should be there but were not. These were all very subtle and easily missed. No one has yet noticed that I’m aware of.
Khan doesn’t need them.
This final pass will take a couple of weeks, and I would note that the trailer is predominantly grainless.
I will also be submitting this with an exhaustive change list, noting every replaced shot, new shots (as in no shot to replace), new audio, scoring enhancement, dialogue recovery, additional audio changes and deletions (only about 10 secs) made throughout the edit.
Some of you may be familiar with some lower right hand screen markers I have used in a few my edits to inform of such changes and or sources. Viewers appear to be divided on these. I placed these more for my own future reference, since I forget what I did when edits are dense in regards to alterations. I subsequently removed them for the available Superman edits, since they were quite noticeable.
Khan will have visual markers in the lower right out of picture but will be minuscule… since geeks may want to know but not have to refer to a printout or their device to follow onscreen and miss the action. Audio changes will be indicated by a single period “.” In pitch 2, and visual changes below it with two periods “..” in pitch 2. This shouldn’t distract anyone while keeping those who want to know, informed.
End credit roll has also been customised to credit as many of the vfx artists whose work has been compiled here, their due credit!
I’m sure every one of them had a version of Khan with their vfx incorporated, but only one made it available and limited it to their own work. With so much material now available, and for many sections there were two sometimes three choices of material to select from, I believe the time was right to collate and curate this material into a cohesive whole. I can only take credit for some minuscule vfx items, and I will flag these tiny contributions too.
Submission should be circa Dec 4th all being well.
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Thanks to the magnificent @ParanoidAndroid Quality Control, we are fishing out those random glitches that creep in despite the timeline and small tests showing clear...they appear as if by magic!
One such example is a record scratch sound over Spock dialogue which then turned to a beep when i test rendered it then a fizz on a further render. I just moved the audio selection for the FX audio overlay of the scanner (which is about 60 secs) to a different portion...there is obviously something in the audio that triggers the rendering glitch...its not an edit-in or edit-out point...its right in the middle of a clean section...go figure. Final test was clean. yet it could be there in the final render...
This is the infuriating part of any edit...some are more prone than others too, and I have not been able to determine any patter or systematic reason why it occurs. I have some edits that were very dense and they came out clean first go...others, just plague me...
The good news is that this is a very clean edit from an audio perspective.
One such example is a record scratch sound over Spock dialogue which then turned to a beep when i test rendered it then a fizz on a further render. I just moved the audio selection for the FX audio overlay of the scanner (which is about 60 secs) to a different portion...there is obviously something in the audio that triggers the rendering glitch...its not an edit-in or edit-out point...its right in the middle of a clean section...go figure. Final test was clean. yet it could be there in the final render...
This is the infuriating part of any edit...some are more prone than others too, and I have not been able to determine any patter or systematic reason why it occurs. I have some edits that were very dense and they came out clean first go...others, just plague me...
The good news is that this is a very clean edit from an audio perspective.
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The Suff that gets missed:
As the final tweaks take place, I thought it would be interesting to share some of the not so obvious changes to ST2.
In dropping in new vfx for nearly every shot, it was not always a case of “just overlay it”.
Yes, about a third fall into that category and half of those required reframing from full screen 16:9 to 1:2.35. Many others I selected required alterations to the engine rumble…I could be replacing a shot where reliant is travelling away to travelling towards us, thus the engines need to match.
In many case shots were shorter or longer… longer is easy; just chop. But some were a few frames shorter due to an incorrect frame rate by a vfx originator, or it’s a shot from somewhere else in the movie which I felt worked better in a different location but was 6 frames short. No speed trickery was used; I just altered the audio to accommodate the new replacement shot.
In some cases, I added new establishing shots and a few scene or sequence extensions. Again, a lot of sound work was needed to do this seamlessly. Sulu’s missing dialogue being one of three notable examples. To pull that off, I had to first extended the scene at the exact point Sulu stops speaking in the travel pod, but continue the music for about 12 secs and then have the music line up when the new dialogue ended. In fact, an exact extension to match the dialogue length was impossible due to the nature of the score. To resolve this, I actually had to remix the entire section of music of Kirks approach to the Enterprise and extend by 10secs without it being troublesome on the ear. I was 2 secs short, so now the 3 way Sulu dialogue with Kirk and McCoy needed a 2sec trim. I used the same techniques I used to correct Harrison Fords additional VO in my Blade Runner edit, and Samuel L J in SUG. With both music and dialogue aligned I then mixed dovetailed both ends and added in the required ambient space noises to complete the 10sec scene extension. Time required to execute? Approx 20 hrs over a few days.
So, the change list (under construction) will detail every single change, but not in that amount of detail.
Nevertheless, I must honor those myriad fan vfx artists out there whose work I have compiled and without which, I would not be able to fulfil my obsession without their obsession. They do receive full credit and in fact the 3 most used sources get headline billing too as they should.
Other tweaks and surprises I’ll leave for you all to discover. May not be to everyone’s taste, but heck, if you want the original, what are you doing here? Go watch the new 4K….(which still has an oddly muffled audio which this suffered from even in theatres at the time…yup, 1982…I WAS there).
Ok folks, I’m off to render v3.01..
W
As the final tweaks take place, I thought it would be interesting to share some of the not so obvious changes to ST2.
In dropping in new vfx for nearly every shot, it was not always a case of “just overlay it”.
Yes, about a third fall into that category and half of those required reframing from full screen 16:9 to 1:2.35. Many others I selected required alterations to the engine rumble…I could be replacing a shot where reliant is travelling away to travelling towards us, thus the engines need to match.
In many case shots were shorter or longer… longer is easy; just chop. But some were a few frames shorter due to an incorrect frame rate by a vfx originator, or it’s a shot from somewhere else in the movie which I felt worked better in a different location but was 6 frames short. No speed trickery was used; I just altered the audio to accommodate the new replacement shot.
In some cases, I added new establishing shots and a few scene or sequence extensions. Again, a lot of sound work was needed to do this seamlessly. Sulu’s missing dialogue being one of three notable examples. To pull that off, I had to first extended the scene at the exact point Sulu stops speaking in the travel pod, but continue the music for about 12 secs and then have the music line up when the new dialogue ended. In fact, an exact extension to match the dialogue length was impossible due to the nature of the score. To resolve this, I actually had to remix the entire section of music of Kirks approach to the Enterprise and extend by 10secs without it being troublesome on the ear. I was 2 secs short, so now the 3 way Sulu dialogue with Kirk and McCoy needed a 2sec trim. I used the same techniques I used to correct Harrison Fords additional VO in my Blade Runner edit, and Samuel L J in SUG. With both music and dialogue aligned I then mixed dovetailed both ends and added in the required ambient space noises to complete the 10sec scene extension. Time required to execute? Approx 20 hrs over a few days.
So, the change list (under construction) will detail every single change, but not in that amount of detail.
Nevertheless, I must honor those myriad fan vfx artists out there whose work I have compiled and without which, I would not be able to fulfil my obsession without their obsession. They do receive full credit and in fact the 3 most used sources get headline billing too as they should.
Other tweaks and surprises I’ll leave for you all to discover. May not be to everyone’s taste, but heck, if you want the original, what are you doing here? Go watch the new 4K….(which still has an oddly muffled audio which this suffered from even in theatres at the time…yup, 1982…I WAS there).
Ok folks, I’m off to render v3.01..
W
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Just a good brand of domestic batteries…!
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The polish continues.
Expanded sound FX continue to be sympathetically layered in and 3 more shots have been replaced.
I did an audit of original remaining vfx against new vfx available, and I have added 2 more new shots to the Mutara battle. A further additional shot has been dropped in, extending and adding additional drama to a key moment in the battle’s build up.
@ParanoidAndriod’s QC and observations will be recognised in a full screen credit as “ Quality Control”
Expanded sound FX continue to be sympathetically layered in and 3 more shots have been replaced.
I did an audit of original remaining vfx against new vfx available, and I have added 2 more new shots to the Mutara battle. A further additional shot has been dropped in, extending and adding additional drama to a key moment in the battle’s build up.
@ParanoidAndriod’s QC and observations will be recognised in a full screen credit as “ Quality Control”