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Spider-Man: Homecoming (No Spoilers)

Ugh I might get some flak for this but was TASM2 really that horrible? I felt it was no better or worse than any of the ones that came before it. Its by no means a good movie, but its not trash either, and I liked elements of it. It's a comic book movie, and I dont mean that disparagingly, but just that-- its not made to win Oscars. Its not 12 Years a Slave or Memento-- the plots going to be the same run of the mill thing, each and every time, because thats what comic books are (and frankly, why I enjoy them-- they're lighthearted, fun and exciting, but popcorn entertainment all the way). Are there exceptions? SUre-- Nolan's Dark Knight for example. Looking at it from the casual movie-goer's POV, I really didn't think TASM2 was exceptionally worse or better than Raimi's trilogy or the first one. Was it a flawed Spiderman film? You betcha, but again, all the others were to an extent too.

I did think it over-reached-- the secret lab crap was unnecessary, the characterization of the villains were poor, the climax in the bell tower was needlessly graphic/sadistic for a popcorn flick. But I don't hate it, it was just ok like the rest. Just curious what the community thought.
 
My ideal Venom movie wouldn't be called Venom but rather Brock. It would be a dark satire of the standard Spider-Man story, where Eddie Brock is actually a decent guy, but doesn't have a good family life at home. He shares Jameson's view of Spider-Man, and when it's rumored that Spidey really goes bad (getting the black suit at the beginning of the story), Jameson volunteers brock to go through an experiment that will allow him to take on Spider-Man, which pays tribute to the comics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpion_(Marvel_Comics)#Mac_Gargan

Eventually, the experiment takes a toll on Brock's psyche and near the end of the film bonds with the symbiote. I like this idea because not only does it make Brock a bit more interesting, but I feel Scorpion should play a bigger part in the Spider-Man mythos (scorpions being a natural predator of spiders and all). The symbiote, imo, should less be an anger monster and more about giving into the id and your most basic impulses, kinda like Carnage. The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon introduced a neat angle of it beng a primitive life form, but I didn't feel like it did anything with the concept. If anything, Raimi did more with it, and his Venom predates the spectacular show.
 
@ranger613: no, it wasn't horrible, but after four movies, in the age of the MCU, Singer's return to X-Men, and fifteen years of comic book movies, many of them pretty great, the muddled and mediocre movie it was just wasn't good enough.

In a poll I ran over at the Trek BBS, I was pleasantly surprised to see 80% of respondents calling it better than Spider-Man 3; I thought the backlash would have made it a closer match, or even given Raimi's mess the win. Still, it is true that it got the lowest professional critical ratings, whether entirely fairly or not.

Bottom line is, many people are no longer tolerating total messes of these blockbusters... and that's not a bad thing, IMO.
 
Gaith said:
@ranger613: no, it wasn't horrible, but after four movies, in the age of the MCU, Singer's return to X-Men, and fifteen years of comic book movies, many of them pretty great, the muddled and mediocre movie it was just wasn't good enough.

In a poll I ran over at the Trek BBS, I was pleasantly surprised to see 80% of respondents calling it better than Spider-Man 3; I thought the backlash would have made it a closer match, or even given Raimi's mess the win. Still, it is true that it got the lowest professional critical ratings, whether entirely fairly or not.

Bottom line is, many people are no longer tolerating total messes of these blockbusters... and that's not a bad thing, IMO.
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Thanks Gaith. Spiderman 3 was a bad movie, like horrendous bad. The villains were terrible, the acting (with emo Peter Parker?-- I stopped watching entirely during the jazz sequence the first time). No one can convince me to ever watch it again. Ever. But TASM2 is definitely a salvageable movie I think-- by better realizing their villains and cutting away some needless subplots, they could have had a decent (albeit not great) movie instead of the messy thing it is.
 
I have mixed feelings about this, as well as the rumor that Marvel Films is going to try to work a Spider-Man cameo into Avengers: Age of Ultron.

On the one hand, it's frustrating for these characters not to be able to interact when it would genuinely make the story better, so the notion of Spidey showing up in the MCU sounds like a lot of fun. On the other hand, I don't want him shoehorned into an already nearly completed movie for its own sake. If he just shows up out of nowhere in the middle of the final battle, it's going to feel very random and tacked-on.

I would hope that Joss would be smart enough to avoid that, but of course if his bosses at Marvel put enough pressure on him, he may just simply have to.

Wolverine's cameo in X-Men: First Class is a perfect example of how to do a cameo right. It was funny; it was surprising (somehow it managed not to be leaked); and it addressed a continuity point: If Xavier started recruiting students in the 1960's, how come he didn't meet Wolverine until the 2000's? The answer is that they did meet, but that Wolverine was his usual self and told Xavier to get lost. It's totally in character.

Wolverine wasn't mentioned in any of the promotions for First Class, and he didn't take part in the final battle. It was just a small character scene, and it worked great. I fear that if the Marvel Films producers get a hold of Spider-Man, they'll put him on all the Age of Ultron posters even though he just shows up for 30 seconds at the end, which will be a massive letdown.

Mind you, Spider-Man can totally be integrated into the Civil War movie, because he was already important to that original story in the comics. Also, there's enough time to include him in a natural way, unlike the Ultron scenario.

I also don't want to see Andrew Garfield recast yet. All the complaints I've heard about ASM2 are about the script; that's not Garfield's fault. And isn't part of the fun of a crossover seeing those familiar faces show up in a movie where we never thought we'd see them? I would honestly rather see Tobey Maguire back than to see a complete stranger interacting with the other actors.

And for heaven's sakes, let's not have another reboot of the franchise. Two complete do-overs in 10 years was too much; do we need to have 3 reboots in 15 years? That would just be nuts. The filmmakers could just ignore the stuff they don't care about and keep moving forward with the story.

Don't get me wrong, I very much want to see Spider-Man show up in a MCU movie. I just want to see it done right. Rushing ideas through isn't bringing the Spider-Man movies into the MCU style; it's adapting the MCU to Sony's misguided style on Spider-Man.
 
Frankly, I'm not even seeing the big appeal of bringing Spidey into the MCU. I love the character, but the MCU is both a global and an intergalactic epic. Tony can fly around the world, Thor can beam in and out of multiple worlds, and both Cap and the Coulson gang globetrot nonstop, but take Spidey out of Manhattan's concrete canyons, and what do you get? Just another really fast and strong dude, who can tie people up really easily, right? Factor in the fact that we're soon getting a multi-series MCU Netflix story set in and around NYC, and where does that leave ol' Peter Parker?

ASM2 was mediocre, yes, but with a strong script, there's no reason why an ASM3 shouldn't be a good film on its own merits. Sony should see these offers of cooperation from Marvel Studios as the Trojan Horses that they are, and give their franchise one more honest-to-goodness effort before throwing in the towerl.
 
Honestly, outside of film cameos, I think the best place to put Spider-Man would be in the Defenders. He's already a street-level hero, and I would like to see Daredevil teach him how to be a hero and they eventually develop a Batman and Robin/Flash and Arrow dynamic. This would be especially interesting if the Spider-Man they went with was Miles Morales.
 
Fun to watch Sony suffer for their lack of vision. The "Amazing" series was anything but in my opinion. I liked 500 Days, but I'm not sure Webb was skilled/ready to tackle something this big, especially with Sony's suffocating interference. The franchise needs a huge revamp after what I believe was a premature revamp in the first place. If Marvel could absorb the property to some extent then it'd make a fresh start worth it.
 
I think the best case scenario would be to introduce Miles Morales as Spider-Man, that way you're starting from as square one as you can get. As for where he would fit in the MCU, put him in The Defenders tv series. Long-time fans older than me say that Spider-Man has been a street-level hero, and seeing as how you could incorporate either Spider-Man film series into the MCU and not have to change much given that none of the Spider-Man films contain world shattering events, this feels like it makes the most sense. Plus, who wouldn't want to see Spider-Man and Daredevil develop a Batman & Robin/ Flash & Arrow dynamic?

EDIT: Dangit, my computer's messing with me. Well, at least it wasn't an "exact" double post of what I said.
 
I would like to see a Toby Maguire cameo in the Avengers to add his trilogy into the MCU and then have Miles take over with your Defenders idea.
 
asterixsmeagol said:
I would like to see a Toby Maguire cameo in the Avengers to add his trilogy into the MCU and then have Miles take over with your Defenders idea.
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I'd like to save Toby Maguire for an extended cameo in Avengers Infinity War Part 2, just have Miles be Spider-Man when Peter disappears. Or maybe have Maguire will do the unmasking in Cap 3, disappear by the end, then the post credit-scene is a shot of Miles hearing how the heroes have gone missing, pulling a box out of his closet, and it's his Spider-Man suit, then have the two Spider-Men meet up in an Avengers or Secret Wars movie.

As for if they want to bring Garfield back, which I highly doubt they will, maybe he can be Ben Reiley, but I would rather see him cast as Venom.
 
I used to joke that Marvel should have Maguire cameo as an un-named photographer in a film as a poke at Sony, but if something like that happened.... haha that'd be awesome.
 
So there was news yesterday that Amy Pascall stepped down, but that she'll remain a producer on future Spider-Man films.
 
Spiderman 6. IT'S GOING TO BE AMAZING! I never thought they'd do this. So exciting.
 
So it's official. Frankly I don't know if I am happy or said. On one hand, the franchise I loved so much, The Amazing Spider-Man franchise is cancelled. No more Andrew Garfield, no Amazing Spider-Man 3, no Sinister Six. Nothing. On the other hand, Marvel Studios which only made two missfires so far (Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3) one of which they fixed for the most part (All Hail the King) out of all the things they have done, is responsible for the new Spider-Man reboot. It is almost certain that it won't suck. But... I really don't know how to react to this. Me and a lot of other ASM fans will be disappointed but still grateful, and confused as to how to react.

Well, I can remove the Sinister Six parts from my planned ASM 2 Extended Edition, so Rhino's armor is from Russia, he also becomes an effective plot device for Spider-Man to return after Gwen's death, and there is no loose ends or teasings for a future installment. Yeah that sounds like a good idea, it would be a proper conclusion to my two-part saga that I love.
 
Masirimso17 said:
So it's official. Frankly I don't know if I am happy or said. On one hand, the franchise I loved so much, The Amazing Spider-Man franchise is cancelled. No more Andrew Garfield, no Amazing Spider-Man 3, no Sinister Six. Nothing.
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None of that was in the announcement at all (unless you read it from another source than the article listed above). Sony just said that they're collaborating with Marvel Films on the next installment. It doesn't say that Garfield is definitely not involved, and it says nothing about who the villain(s) might be. All of those things are probably still in discussion. So don't panic just yet, my friend. :)

I look forward to a new creative direction, but I hope that there's some continuity between what's already been established. Please, Sony & Marvel, we don't need another reboot and recast this soon!
 
TomH1138 said:
None of that was in the announcement at all (unless you read it from another source than the article listed above). Sony just said that they're collaborating with Marvel Films on the next installment. It doesn't say that Garfield is definitely not involved, and it says nothing about who the villain(s) might be. All of those things are probably still in discussion. So don't panic just yet, my friend. :)

I look forward to a new creative direction, but I hope that there's some continuity between what's already been established. Please, Sony & Marvel, we don't need another reboot and recast this soon!
Click to expand...

I know but didn't we hear from the leaked e-mails that Andrew Garfield was fired? Also it says that the new Spider-Man film will come out in 2017... let's just wait for more details about the film in 2017, then we'll be the judge.
 
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