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L O S T - The Abridged Film Series

LOST II - Numbers is now online. It clocks in at 90 minutes, and covers the first half of Season 2 (that's a savings of about 310 minutes). If you'd like to see it, just PM me for the details.
 
I have a question about season six. What do you do with Desmond now that the flash-sideways are gone?

The deal is obviously that unlike the others (apart from Juliet in her moment of dying) Desmond first experienced the flash-sideways on-island, when Widmore blasted him with electromagnetism. This in itself is possible to cut around, but it also made Desmond value his life on the island less, and thus was more likely to go through with Jack's plan. He had to see something in the flashes to go along with it, and without the rest of the flashes there's just no context for his experience. I think this blog post sums it up nicely.

I'm also of the camp that thinks Flashes Before Your Eyes was actually a flash-sideways experience. It's different from the season six afterlife, sure, but it's definitely the same kind of what-if timeframe - unlike his time-travelling in The Constant, which actually happene and actually changed things. What made Flashes so confusing for so long was the fact that while a lot of it probably happened in Desmond's life back then - trying to piece together Desmond's life from the paradoxical stubs of information we're given is actually fun (or maybe I just need professional help?) - a lot of it simply couldn't have happened. He didn't know Charlie prior to the island, and I'd think he would have remembered Eloise's speech. The fact that he recognises and blames Eloise when they meet at the Lamp Post doesn't prove that they actually met in 1996 (or whenever it was), it just means that for Desmond, the meeting at the jewellery shop was real. And knowing Daniel's crazy journal where Desmond obviously plays a central part, she's not inclined to disagree with Desmond although she probably isn't consciously aware of their meeting.

One of the reasons I like the flash-sideways (apart from really enjoying both the deliberately stilted atmosphere AND the sappy ending) is the fact that it provides context for Desmond's Hatch-explosion Flashes experience. I like Flashes more after season six, actually. Prior to that, I thought it didn't really fit in with the consciousness travels of The Constant. Now I realize it wasn't meant to.
 
theslime said:
I have a question about season six. What do you do with Desmond now that the flash-sideways are gone?

The deal is obviously that unlike the others (apart from Juliet in her moment of dying) Desmond first experienced the flash-sideways on-island, when Widmore blasted him with electromagnetism. This in itself is possible to cut around, but it also made Desmond value his life on the island less, and thus was more likely to go through with Jack's plan. He had to see something in the flashes to go along with it, and without the rest of the flashes there's just no context for his experience. I think this blog post sums it up nicely.

I'm also of the camp that thinks Flashes Before Your Eyes was actually a flash-sideways experience. It's different from the season six afterlife, sure, but it's definitely the same kind of what-if timeframe - unlike his time-travelling in The Constant, which actually happene and actually changed things. What made Flashes so confusing for so long was the fact that while a lot of it probably happened in Desmond's life back then - trying to piece together Desmond's life from the paradoxical stubs of information we're given is actually fun (or maybe I just need professional help?) - a lot of it simply couldn't have happened. He didn't know Charlie prior to the island, and I'd think he would have remembered Eloise's speech. The fact that he recognises and blames Eloise when they meet at the Lamp Post doesn't prove that they actually met in 1996 (or whenever it was), it just means that for Desmond, the meeting at the jewellery shop was real. And knowing Daniel's crazy journal where Desmond obviously plays a central part, she's not inclined to disagree with Desmond although she probably isn't consciously aware of their meeting.

One of the reasons I like the flash-sideways (apart from really enjoying both the deliberately stilted atmosphere AND the sappy ending) is the fact that it provides context for Desmond's Hatch-explosion Flashes experience. I like Flashes more after season six, actually. Prior to that, I thought it didn't really fit in with the consciousness travels of The Constant. Now I realize it wasn't meant to.
Click to expand...

This was a very difficult thing for me to figure out how to work with, but my change is that instead of seeing the afterlife, Desmond experiences another set of flashes like in Season 3 after he turns the key. In effect, he "sees" his future, and realizes his and everyone else's purpose on the Island.

I'm going to represent this as him being blasted with electromagnetism, then we get a jump cut to white, with a fade-in of the "Heart of the Island." Then he wakes up. I may also take this opportunity to insert something useful from that atrocious midichlorians episode Across the Sea.

Amongst other changes, when "Locke" asks Desmond "Do you know who I am?" Desmond simply responds "Yes." Not "Yes. You're John Locke."

In short, Desmond changes from being certain that he'd "leave" the Island, to knowing his purpose on the Island. His character is altered to better match the way he behaved in Season 3 when he was kind of "directing" Charlie as (IMO) an almost Jesus-like figure.

The implication of this is that after he gets blasted with electromagnetism, Desmond finally understands why Jacob brought him to the Island, and becomes a willing participant in the plan. You'll have to wait until the final movie to see it play out in all its (IMO) brilliance, but I think its a much better ending than what the writers put in - and I think it fits perfectly.

Not only is this (IMO) a better ending to his character arc, it actually fits much better with what we know a blast of electromagnetism does to Desmond. It doesn't make sense to me that one blast would give him future-sight, and another blast would give him sideways-sight.
As regards to your questions about Flashes Before Your Eyes, it's my understanding that in the series Desmond's continual exposure to electromagnetism in the Hatch has made him, to quote Daniel Faraday "miraculously special." He is the ONLY person who is able to change the past in any way whatsoever.

He goes back in time and relives a part of his life again, changing it slightly. I do not believe that it's a flash sideways, though I do agree that it can be interpreted that way.

However, my film omits a very large part of this flashback (I'm not 100% sure yet how much, but it's a lot), and the "Whatever Happened, Happened" rule is not broken. The only thing I have to make sure of is that I can figure out a way to cut around Desmond saying to Eloise Hawking at the Lamp-Post in Season Five "I wasted three years of my life because you said it was my destiny to go to that Island. Three years that I'll never get back."

If I can't cut around that, I will have to include more of Desmond's flashback in Flashes Before Your Eyes, so that his later exchange with Eloise makes sense.

I also read that blog post, and I agree that it's an excellent summary of the endgame of the series. Obviously the fact that I don't include the flash sideways in my film edit means that I have to do some VERY fancy footwork, but I feel confident that I've been able to adequately sidestep the entire flash sideways universe while still providing a meaningful motivation for Desmond to enter the deepest darkest (or lightest) depths of the Island willingly.

Great post, though. It's excellent fun to be able to talk LOST with someone who really knows his stuff. I don't get to do that often.
 
I'm trying to visualize your new EM-induced flash in my head now, and it sounds like it could work, actually! Going from "knowing there's something else and losing interest in this life" to "flashes that visualizes Jacob's plan" would make sense, especially when the other flash-sideways scenes are removed. Interesting!

What you say about Flashes is nice (and probably internally consistent if you edit it the way you outline), but personally I still don't believe that he changed anything in the main timeline in that episode. In The Constant, he definitely changed the present by reliving parts of his past (whether or not this was what got him thrown out of the Military in the first place is anyone's guess). This is imo the only time on the show where "Whatever happened, happened" doesn't apply, with the possible exception of the compass. It's a paradox, but not on a grandfather paradox level. In Flashes, however, he's led to the island by time-travelling FROM the island to an event that didn't take place the first time (since he doesn't remember Charlie). That's a far more serious breach of, er, spacetime rules, I think. I think it's more likely that Eloise's speech is Desmond's projection of the fact that he wants to run from his Hatch obligation, but knows he can't. Or it's a fully autonomous Ellie in a different timeline (a flash-sideways timeline, if you will). Or - and this is more in line with your theory, I think - actually the past, only slightly different this time around, and Ellie is there to course-correct the timeline to avoid Des running from his obligation. The last option was what I thought at the time, but it opens a troublesome can of worms regarding Ellie's time-lord abilities (which I don't believe in), and it's so paradoxical that my head starts spinning (it's akin to imagining what would happen if the bomb had worked; how would they detonate it if they never went to the island in the first place?).

Nice discussion!
 
The reason Desmond doesn't remember Charlie is because the "first time around," he didn't MEET Charlie. This is just further proof that he altered his past.

I can't really reconcile Eloise's "time lord" capabilities (as you so aptly put it), which is one of the reasons I want to get rid of that encounter. It's pretty much an unanswered question, and I really hate those!

If you were to press me for an answer, perhaps Desmond told Faraday, and Faraday wrote it down, and the book went back in time, and fell into Eloise's hands, and she read it, and fulfilled her destiny by talking to Desmond about the Island and the man with the red shoes. The "course correcting" thing she talks about is a time paradox brought on by Desmond telling Faraday about it, Faraday writing it down, taking it back in time to his mother, her reading it, and fulfilling her destiny by telling it to Desmond.

However, this explanation doesn't really make sense because there isn't much opportunity for Desmond and Faraday to talk (what with one being on the freighter and the other being on the Island).

So my other explanation is that the "course corrections" only occur in Desmond's case. I believe that no-one else can change the past, so the universe never needs to course correct. The only time it ever does have to course correct is when Desmond changes things, as he does by going back in time, and of course by warning Charlie of his deaths.

If you think about "course correction," you begin to realize that the ONLY time it EVER comes up is in situations where Desmond is directly involved. Surely that's not a coincidence, right? There is a lot of time travel in LOST, but everything turns out to have always happened, except when Desmond comes into play. Desmond, whom the foremost time-travel expert in the entire world said was "uniquely and miraculously special." I mean, come ON!!!

Not even detonating a nuclear bomb changed the real world one iota. You'd think of all things, that might have done it. But no.


The gist of Faraday's plan was that people are variables and can alter the course of events if their impact on the "stream" of time is large enough. We know that this is not true, but I believe that it IS true of Desmond. I'm of the opinion that if they could somehow have gotten Desmond back to 1978, he (and only he) would have been able to carry out Daniel's plan. Anyone else would have just caused the Incident and started the chain of events that led to the crash, But even that sentence is inherently wrong, since history tells us that the Incident was ALWAYS caused by Jack and the gang. So it's moot anyway.

The compass is just like the notebook. It's just stuck in this never-ending loop where nobody first gave it to the other person. It's just something we have to live with in time travel stories, I guess.

I like your idea that Eloise's speech is a psychological defense mechanism for Desmond in his flash sideways. I don't like the concept of the flash sideways universe in general, so I don't like to think of things in those terms, but it certainly makes sense if you want to go down that road.

Excuse me while I sneeze out my brain.
 
Part 5 of the dlc for the second film is temporarily unavailable. I've uploaded a replacement, so if you want it just PM me for the link.

EDIT: It's back up now.
 
i was sleepy so didnt watch te whol part 2, but kimmed and found no sound glitches myself.
My only concern was the sudden love between Sayid & Shannon. in part 1 they were just fellow passengers on the plane, yet by the end of part 2 they seemed really in love an Sayid was very sad when she died and at least for me i felt confused like there was some missing pieces in between that lead up to that.
 
jswert123456 said:
i was sleepy so didnt watch te whol part 2, but kimmed and found no sound glitches myself.
My only concern was the sudden love between Sayid & Shannon. in part 1 they were just fellow passengers on the plane, yet by the end of part 2 they seemed really in love an Sayid was very sad when she died and at least for me i felt confused like there was some missing pieces in between that lead up to that.
Click to expand...

The series itself never really developed that relationship, but if you'll remember the first film does go into Shannon and Sayid's love connection. She sings him a song in French, and Boone gets all jealous. At Boone's funeral they're standing together, and Sayid generally shows sympathy for Shannon losing her brother.

But I do agree with you that the relationship is underdeveloped. If I had more to work with, I would have definitely developed the relationship better, but there just wasn't much I could do. The only alternative was to just bite the bullet and kill Shannon without wasting too much time on her, since she's really not a very important character at all.

But thanks for the feedback.
 
to be honest all of this is basiccally new to me. when lost was on the air i didnt watch it, but 1 season another show i liked was on break so i began watching Lost and that was season4-6.
So ive never seen full episodes of seasons 1-3, cept for bits and pieces here and there
 
I like hearing from people who aren't familiar with the series, because it helps me figure out if my edit really works or not. You might pick up some things that I would miss because I know too much.
 
Radzinsky said:
The reason Desmond doesn't remember Charlie is because the "first time around," he didn't MEET Charlie. This is just further proof that he altered his past.

I can't really reconcile Eloise's "time lord" capabilities (as you so aptly put it), which is one of the reasons I want to get rid of that encounter. It's pretty much an unanswered question, and I really hate those!

If you were to press me for an answer, perhaps Desmond told Faraday, and Faraday wrote it down, and the book went back in time, and fell into Eloise's hands, and she read it, and fulfilled her destiny by talking to Desmond about the Island and the man with the red shoes. The "course correcting" thing she talks about is a time paradox brought on by Desmond telling Faraday about it, Faraday writing it down, taking it back in time to his mother, her reading it, and fulfilling her destiny by telling it to Desmond.

However, this explanation doesn't really make sense because there isn't much opportunity for Desmond and Faraday to talk (what with one being on the freighter and the other being on the Island).

So my other explanation is that the "course corrections" only occur in Desmond's case. I believe that no-one else can change the past, so the universe never needs to course correct. The only time it ever does have to course correct is when Desmond changes things, as he does by going back in time, and of course by warning Charlie of his deaths.

If you think about "course correction," you begin to realize that the ONLY time it EVER comes up is in situations where Desmond is directly involved. Surely that's not a coincidence, right? There is a lot of time travel in LOST, but everything turns out to have always happened, except when Desmond comes into play. Desmond, whom the foremost time-travel expert in the entire world said was "uniquely and miraculously special." I mean, come ON!!!

Not even detonating a nuclear bomb changed the real world one iota. You'd think of all things, that might have done it. But no.


The gist of Faraday's plan was that people are variables and can alter the course of events if their impact on the "stream" of time is large enough. We know that this is not true, but I believe that it IS true of Desmond. I'm of the opinion that if they could somehow have gotten Desmond back to 1978, he (and only he) would have been able to carry out Daniel's plan. Anyone else would have just caused the Incident and started the chain of events that led to the crash, But even that sentence is inherently wrong, since history tells us that the Incident was ALWAYS caused by Jack and the gang. So it's moot anyway.

The compass is just like the notebook. It's just stuck in this never-ending loop where nobody first gave it to the other person. It's just something we have to live with in time travel stories, I guess.

I like your idea that Eloise's speech is a psychological defense mechanism for Desmond in his flash sideways. I don't like the concept of the flash sideways universe in general, so I don't like to think of things in those terms, but it certainly makes sense if you want to go down that road.

Excuse me while I sneeze out my brain.
Click to expand...
Good post. I see where you're going with how Desmond detonating the bomb (or not detonating the bomb!) could have changed things. But I don't think even Desmond is above the grandfather paradox concept. If he was brought to the island because of a button that he himself prevented from ever existing in the first place, what then? My guess is that something else would have taken Jughead's place, or a proverbial coconut would have fallen from the sky knocking him out before he could change anything. The universe has a way, after all. (Sometimes, that way is coconuts. On other days it might be something else.)

What he changes in The Constant is small fry all things considered. He saves himself from dying by getting a constant. He changes his relationship to Penny in some vaguely defined way (did it erase their meeting at the stadium? Who knows), but nothing happened that would have prevented him from going to the island, I think. Flashes is a different beast, in that he has all his memories in the same way, but he wants to change major things by not going to the island. Yes, maybe Ellie is the course-correction and maybe it all happened back then, but it's too big, I think.

You're right about my Charlie argument, though, you can explain around that fact the same way we explain the changed 1996 in Daniel's lab. (Unless it always happened and Daniel just forgot about it due to his fried brain? AAARGH! Bollocks! It never ends!) So if Time Lord Ellie is out, you can easily get away with Charlie meeting Des (it would be the same as The Constant).

PS:
[video=youtube_share;TZ0hFSLPOJE]
"[/video]
 
I highly suggest both of you [MENTION=25019]Radzinsky[/MENTION] & theslime, watch DriggyDriggs' LOST Mini-series. Part 4 gives the Desmond episode/flash-sideways a new purpose. PM me if they're offline and I'll upload for you.
 
theslime said:
Good post. I see where you're going with how Desmond detonating the bomb (or not detonating the bomb!) could have changed things. But I don't think even Desmond is above the grandfather paradox concept. If he was brought to the island because of a button that he himself prevented from ever existing in the first place, what then? My guess is that something else would have taken Jughead's place, or a proverbial coconut would have fallen from the sky knocking him out before he could change anything. The universe has a way, after all. (Sometimes, that way is coconuts. On other days it might be something else.)

What he changes in The Constant is small fry all things considered. He saves himself from dying by getting a constant. He changes his relationship to Penny in some vaguely defined way (did it erase their meeting at the stadium? Who knows), but nothing happened that would have prevented him from going to the island, I think. Flashes is a different beast, in that he has all his memories in the same way, but he wants to change major things by not going to the island. Yes, maybe Ellie is the course-correction and maybe it all happened back then, but it's too big, I think.

You're right about my Charlie argument, though, you can explain around that fact the same way we explain the changed 1996 in Daniel's lab. (Unless it always happened and Daniel just forgot about it due to his fried brain? AAARGH! Bollocks! It never ends!) So if Time Lord Ellie is out, you can easily get away with Charlie meeting Des (it would be the same as The Constant).

PS:
[video=youtube_share;TZ0hFSLPOJE]
"[/video]
Click to expand...

I guess the way I would explain Desmond's "special-ness" is that he is, in effect, exempt from the rule of causality. He is "unstuck" in time, which enables him to change things others could not.

Think of it like this:

A train would say to a car: "There is only forward and back."
A car would say to a train: "But there's left and right as well."
And a plane would say to them both: "Yeah, but what about up and down?"

Desmond is like a car or a plane. He is able to move along the "train tracks" of time, and alter them so that they follow a different course. Just like a train would see that as impossible (because it can only go foward and back), everyone except Desmond would also find his ability to alter the time stream to be impossible.

If Desmond could get himself to the site of the Incident, I reckon he could change what happens there without creating a paradox. Now whether you believe that the universe would course correct things so that Oceanic 815 crashed anyway depends on the extent to which you believe in the concept of course-correction.

Remember also that Faraday's entire plan hinged on his belief that detonating the hydrogen bomb would cause such a big change in the timeline that it couldn't be corrected. He was wrong in thinking that people were variables, but we know that Desmond was able to change the past and future (if only slightly). The universe did course correct things so that Charlie died anyway, but perhaps if Desmond (who is a variable) caused a large enough change, then Faraday's plan would have worked.

Of course this is all just speculation.
 
Yeah, if he's TRULY unstuck, then I suppose the universe could course-correct him another way to get to the island - if he would even need another way to get to the island. The problem with this, I think, is that nothing truly momentous changes with Desmond. There are important changes, yes, but more along the lines of fixing what was broken (like Daniel's experiment, which could also be a whatever happened, happened deal because of Daniel's amnesia) and his own mind and relationship with Penny. My point being - btw, I don't really disagree with you, I just think the discussion is interesting! - that I don't think anything on the show really suggest Desmond is above causality. He's the only one who can change things, yes, but that's not the same as being above causality. I know I've mentioned the grandfather paradox several times now, but that's because I think that's the heart of the matter. There are two attempts at creating a grandfather paradox on Lost. The first (if it's not a flash-sideways occurrence) is Desmond attempting to not go to the island. This fails because of time lord Ellie. The second is The Incident, which was always doomed to fail. While Desmond could conceivably change such a big thing, I think it should have been obvious that the events set in motion by Daniel and the castaways could never change due to them needing to be there to make the chage. Either Daniel knew this, and manipulated them into doing it because he knew a hydrogen bomb caused the Incident in the first place, or he just underestimated "this is what always happened".

The Jughead (the episode, not the bomb) incident is interesting, I think. Desmond's suddenly remembering in 2007 what happened approx. five years ago because it just happened for Daniel. It's easy to call this shoddy writing, but it could also be a Constant thing. Des is Daniel's constant and Daniel's dislodged in time. Btw, they never used the word "unstuck in time" on the show, did they? I guess they were afraid it would suggest a relation to Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5.

Anyway, my point is that Desmond never attempts a truly paradoxical thing apart from not going to the island - and that fails. I think that is telling. There is what always happens - which prevents normal people from changing things - and there is destiny (or the Path) which prevents Desmond from changing things. At least I think so. :)

---

Neglify, the mini-series is in my (growing) FE virtual pile on my harddrive. Primarily, the reason that I haven't watched it yet is that I actually like the flash-sideways. I think there's some weird pacing issues and red herrings (the Temple and the "once he talks to you" bit especially) in the Island scnees, and I think on the whole the flash-sideways scenes were better written. But I know I'm in the minority. My girlfriend hated the FS, and she's interested in watching the mini-series, so I'll get to it eventually. :)
 
Lost will always be one of my favorite favorite Television series of all time. I know the series forwards and backwards and flash sideways. I'm glad your condensing this series into a set of films. Just got Genesis. Looking forward to watching it this evening. Thank you. Namaste. :)
 
Part I is released on IFDB, thread moved to True Fanedits.
 
The link to the dlc for the second film (Numbers) is listed as temporarily unavailable.

I've uploaded another copy, so just PM me for the details.
 
Hello again everyone. It's been a little while since I've posted on this thread, so I'll give you all an update.

The third film in my series (entitled Acts) should be finished by tonight (tomorrow at the latest). I've still got to render it and then upload it though, so it will probably be ready in a day or two (around 14-15 August, 2013).

But before I finish, I'd like to ask a question. There's a 3 minute scene about half way through the film that I really like, but it isn't absolutely necessary to the plot. In fact, I think the film runs better without it, and given that its almost 3 hours long as it is, being able to cut out three minutes would be pretty handy.

I've uploaded the scene to Vimeo. Could you all take a look at it and let me know if I should include it:

​

It's the scene where Henry tells Locke that he never pushed the button. It is a great piece of acting, and it introduces the Island's strange ability to remain hidden from the world (not to mention raising the question in Locke's mind as to whether the button is real or not). But on the downside, it's one of about 5 scenes in a row of someone talking to Henry Gale in the armory. I think having that many of those conversations so close together kind of gets stale after a while.

In addition, the scene doesn't provide any information that's critical to the plot, and any that it does provide can be pretty much found elsewhere.

But all that considered, I still really love the scene (and I'm leaning towards keeping it); though I'd like to get some input from you all.

Like I said, it's not strictly necessary, and given the film's long running time, perhaps I would be better off cutting the scene (as much as I love it).

Thoughts? Keep it or not?
 
damn thats a tough call. my first thought would be to keep it as it strengthens lockes conflict and eventual decision to not push the button
 
So that's one vote to keep it. Any other opinions?

On another topic, all through the last season of the show I was hoping this exchange would pop up between the man in black and one of the other characters:

JACK: "What's your name? Your real name."
MIB: "Why don't you just keep calling me Locke. I've gotten used to it."

I would have been perfectly satisfied with not knowing his name if the topic had been at least broached, but it seemed like no-one was the slightest bit interested in the identity of the man who was trying to kill them all.
 
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