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Wonder Woman

I caved and watched a couple of the movie clips that have been released. This one is pretty much plot-spoiler-free...


The action looks really well shot and properly choreographed (Good work Patty Jenkins). Glad to hear the hero theme from BvS being used appropriately. Given it was a new composer and given DC's bizarre reluctance to so far use their hero themes in the actual movies, it was a relief (The dialogue scenes look fun too).
 
So far, this film looks actually good!  Let’s hope for the best.  I love how it feels REAL.  It isn’t tainted by CGI like a Snyder’s visuals (which I happen to like, but are not aking to real life at all) nor are they fake-looking (Marvel, I’m looking at you).  I have my hopes up.
 
^ no idea what you're talking about, the trailers have a ton of CGI. You don't think she actually is crashing through any windows on set, right? 

I agree the film looks good, but real? No.
 
What I meant with that is that the sets don’t look like they’re plastic, and that is partly the job of a good cinematography.  The world looks, as in is visually, real.  I didn’t have that impression with “The Avengers” nor with “Batman v Superman”, which were both very stylized.
 
It's starting to look like it took a woman superhero to do what two male superheroes couldn't do.....make a great DCEU film!
 
I thoroughly enjoyed the film. I have some very minor qualms (way too much speed ramping, a stupid framing device) overall and I didn't like the climax very much, but there is so much to enjoy with this movie. Gadot and Pine have such great chemistry, the film really didn't drag for me despite the long runtime. There's even a line with Gadot poking fun at the 90s trope of hot girls in glasses. I'll save specifics until the film comes out but this is my favorite DCEU movie by a good margin. It was also refreshing to see that a film can be about a gorgeous woman, wearing a short skirt, to whom all the guys are attracted without the camera being a creepy perv. No slow pans up the legs or bending over for no reason. Maybe other people don't care about that sort of thing but as a parent of daughters I sure do.
 
thecuddlyninja said:
It was also refreshing to see that a film can be about a gorgeous woman, wearing a short skirt, to whom all the guys are attracted without the camera being a creepy perv. No slow pans up the legs or bending over for no reason. Maybe other people don't care about that sort of thing but as a parent of daughters I sure do.

That's great! Thanks for including this in your review. Transformers was terrible in many regards, but particularly in the perving over Megan Fox - in a film about kids toys battling each other!!! Doh!
 
A very positive, spoiler free review....

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWZIRifjkxc[/video]
 
musiced921 said:
It's starting to look like it took a woman superhero to do what two male superheroes couldn't do.....make a great DCEU film!

It's more it took a woman director something a crappy overhyped male director couldn't do.
 
Saw it. 3/5, will watch again. My 10 year old fell asleep, but the 12 year old absolutely loved it. Both are girls.
 
Does anyone think that it might be interesting to create a "classic edition" that removes all of the modern day portions, makes it a standalone period piece, and tones down the more modern touches (by removing the ramping effects and possibly rescoring the movie with a more classic-sounding score)?
 
Reminder: this is not the spoilery fan edit ideas thread for this film. Please keep discussion limited to spoiler-free film talk.
 
addiesin said:
Reminder: this is not the spoilery fan edit ideas thread for this film. Please keep discussion limited to spoiler-free film talk.

Good point. Last two posts moved to the other tread.
 
Loved the first 3/4 of the movie .... 5/5 stars. The last 1/4 was okay ..... 2.5/5 stars.

Why do films have to go with the over budgeted endings? Her battle against the army was amazing! I would have been perfectly fine with more of that vs the special effects "spectacle" against Hades.
 
The movie held my interest pretty well until the finale, when I got restless. And, as soon as the credits started, I started to question a whole lot of stuff. Shall we recap certain things in this movie that make no damn sense?

- Why is Diana said to be at "school" if she's the only child? Wouldn't it just be "tutoring", then? And when was she born? Given that the rest of the women are apparently immortal, why are some women about adult Diana's age while others are older? Was she a child for centuries?

- Where has Zeus been this whole time? Is he still alive? How was Ares able to kill all the gods except him? And why does he want to destroy humanity when he's the God of War who, y'know, loves war and warriors (see: Homer)? He's not the classical Ares at all, but instead a mix of Satan and Ultron, I guess?

- Why was the German ship listing/sinking? If it ran aground/hit a rock, what happened to its crew? Also, how was a ship only minutes behind a biplane? And why the day/night change? Is Themiscryra merely cloaked, is it cloaked and impenetrable, or can it only be entered sometimes? Was it penetrable because Diana did her bracelets shockwave? If so... why?

- Why was an unknown person allowed into a War Cabinet meeting? Does the concept of security not exist in wartime Britain, decades after Lincoln's assassination? And why is an American spy reporting directly to the top generals? Even Cap didn't report directly to Ike or Patton, so where was Trevor's chain of command? And, when asked why he had to go back to London, wouldn't an Army officer mention his duty, rather than shrug, hem, and haw?

- Why doesn't Diana know what marriage is? It isn't some modern concept. The Greek gods married, never mind the ancient and mythical Greeks. Are none of the Amazon married? Did the twelve volumes of the made-up erotic writer never mention the concept? Also, it's 2017. Not even a hint of a mention of Amazonian woman-on-woman action? Has Diana fooled around with any of her peers? Speaking of which, did none of them want to accompany, protect, and fight alongside their princess?

- Given that Trevor was an American officer who knew how to sail, he was probably well-educated, and almost certainly Christian-raised, if not Christian himself. So, does he really not ask any questions about this whole Olympian gods situation? Does he even gently ask if she's so much as heard of Jehovah, the Jews, Christ, Islam, all that stuff? Also, Themiscrya must be in the Mediterranean, if it can be reached by a biplane flown from an Ottoman base. Ergo, it's days/weeks of sailing to London, during which Diana would absolutely have seen land at the Strait of Gibraltar even if nowhere else, and should have grilled him on geography. And, why do they take the Thames into London rather than disembark somewhere around Cornwall, and hop a train? (London connects to the English Strait to the East, and they'd be sailing from the Gibraltar/the West.)

- I'm pretty sure "Ottoman" isn't a language. Shouldn't Diana have identified it as Turkish? It's not as though she seemed to know what the Ottoman Empire was. And, of all those languages she's studied, how has she missed all the words relating to marriage?

- Why is Diana so blase about fighting and killing once she's got actual blood on her hands? Cap grew up in the real world, being bullied and getting in fights, so he at least had some idea of what he was getting into. Diana learns that Americans are very much capable of savagery towards Chief's people, but without question attacks the German lines? And, if that part of the Front hadn't moved in years, as implied, than how did the Belgian refugees cross No Man's Land/what was with the implication the town had only recently been invaded? Hadn't it been in Central Powers hands for years at that point? And wouldn't Diana have wanted to tend to the wounded from the charge she led rather than socialize? Why do we not get one meaningful conversation between her and a non-Amazonian woman? (No, the Candy banter didn't qualify.)

- Why the hell was Trevor not clean-shaven at the party? Way to blow any semblance of a cover, dude.

- Was there a Sir Morgan in-universe, or did Ares lead his entire life from birth? The Brits are pretty rigid about who's a Knight and an MP and all that. Was Ares just goading Morgan on like he was Ludendorff? If so, then I agree with those who said his true form, flashbacks included, shouldn't have been Professor Lupin. Professor Lupin isn't scary, and I don't believe for a moment a guy who looks as mild as him could have defeated Athena, Apollo, Poseidon, Hera, Artemis, Hermes, and all the others with Zeus himself all against him.

- Did the plane have a parachute? Did Trevor even bother to check?

Overall, I found the script to be weak, and way too eager to engage with none of the fascinating questions the material practically demands be addressed. I therefore frankly care far less about Patty Jenkins returning than I do screenwriter Allan Heinberg, who has apparently spent most of his career writing for shows like Party of Five, The OC, and Grey's Anatomy, as well as various comics, not returning. And while Gadot and Pine and Jenkins did fine jobs, the script was pretty thin gruel. ("Story by" credit also went to Zack Snyder and Jason Fuchs, who gave us Ice Age: Continental Drift and Pan. Daring suggestion: maybe hire a woman writer next time?)

That said, at the screening I attended, crowds of mostly women whooped with pleasure numerous times, and that's great. Noted, they were usually doing so when Diana was killing German grunts, not Nazis or HYDRA-Nazis, which I found somewhat uncomfortable, but still, I'm glad they (and many others, men and women) liked it. In the end, for all the speculation, setting this in WW1 was virtually meaningless apart from making a superficial break from The First Avenger, whose ending (and much, much more) it copied anyhow.

I'm all for more women-led blockbusters, and movies in general. A movie can only be somewhat better than its script in the best of cases, making this a mediocre one with a great lead.

B-
 
Gaith said:
The movie held my interest pretty well until the finale, when I got restless. And, as soon as the credits started, I started to question a whole lot of stuff. Shall we recap certain things in this movie that make no damn sense?

- Why is Diana said to be at "school" if she's the only child? Wouldn't it just be "tutoring", then? And when was she born? Given that the rest of the women are apparently immortal, why are some women about adult Diana's age while others are older? Was she a child for centuries?

Tell that to kids that are homschooled .... they aren't home tutored.

- Where has Zeus been this whole time? Is he still alive? How was Ares able to kill all the gods except him? And why does he want to destroy humanity when he's the God of War who, y'know, loves war and warriors (see: Homer)? He's not the classical Ares at all, but instead a mix of Satan and Ultron, I guess?

I am not saying it's not answered, but I don't feel a question that needs to be answered in this context. We only learn of Zeus from Diana's stories to Diana as a proxy.

- Why was the German ship listing/sinking? If it ran aground/hit a rock, what happened to its crew? Also, how was a ship only minutes behind a biplane? And why the day/night change? Is Themiscryra merely cloaked, is it cloaked and impenetrable, or can it only be entered sometimes? Was it penetrable because Diana did her bracelets shockwave? If so... why?

I put the ship being empty to all of the people jumping on rafts. I thought that part was apparent. Now to why the ship ran into a rock ... I agree that was confusing as hell. I never thought Themiscryra was impenetrable, just cloaked and that this is going to be a problem from modern machinery. You could be right though since no one has found it since.

- Why was an unknown person allowed into a War Cabinet meeting? Does the concept of security not exist in wartime Britain, decades after Lincoln's assassination? And why is an American spy reporting directly to the top generals? Even Cap didn't report directly to Ike or Patton, so where was Trevor's chain of command? And, when asked why he had to go back to London, wouldn't an Army officer mention his duty, rather than shrug, hem, and haw?

I think it depends who his order givers are and depends on how high his clearance is.

- Why doesn't Diana know what marriage is? It isn't some modern concept. The Greek gods married, never mind the ancient and mythical Greeks. Are none of the Amazon married? Did the twelve volumes of the made-up erotic writer never mention the concept? Also, it's 2017. Not even a hint of a mention of Amazonian woman-on-woman action? Has Diana fooled around with any of her peers? Speaking of which, did none of them want to accompany, protect, and fight alongside their princess?

I think the same as above where this is based off only what her mother has told her. I base this on her mother not educating her in all things over marriage not existing.

- Given that Trevor was an American officer who knew how to sail, he was probably well-educated, and almost certainly Christian-raised, if not Christian himself. So, does he really not ask any questions about this whole Olympian gods situation? Does he even gently ask if she's so much as heard of Jehovah, the Jews, Christ, Islam, all that stuff? Also, Themiscrya must be in the Mediterranean, if it can be reached by a biplane flown from an Ottoman base. Ergo, it's days/weeks of sailing to London, during which Diana would absolutely have seen land at the Strait of Gibraltar even if nowhere else, and should have grilled him on geography. And, why do they take the Thames into London rather than disembark somewhere around Cornwall, and hop a train? (London connects to the English Strait to the East, and they'd be sailing from the Gibraltar/the West.)

- I'm pretty sure "Ottoman" isn't a language. Shouldn't Diana have identified it as Turkish? It's not as though she seemed to know what the Ottoman Empire was. And, of all those languages she's studied, how has she missed all the words relating to marriage?

- Why is Diana so blase about fighting and killing once she's got actual blood on her hands? Cap grew up in the real world, being bullied and getting in fights, so he at least had some idea of what he was getting into. Diana learns that Americans are very much capable of savagery towards Chief's people, but without question attacks the German lines? And, if that part of the Front hadn't moved in years, as implied, than how did the Belgian refugees cross No Man's Land/what was with the implication the town had only recently been invaded? Hadn't it been in Central Powers hands for years at that point? And wouldn't Diana have wanted to tend to the wounded from the charge she led rather than socialize? Why do we not get one meaningful conversation between her and a non-Amazonian woman? (No, the Candy banter didn't qualify.)

I know I keep putting this one concept, but one of a sheltered life. Her entire morale is skewed.

- Why the hell was Trevor not clean-shaven at the party? Way to blow any semblance of a cover, dude.

Continuity error, more than bad writing ...

- Was there a Sir Morgan in-universe, or did Ares lead his entire life from birth? The Brits are pretty rigid about who's a Knight and an MP and all that. Was Ares just goading Morgan on like he was Ludendorff? If so, then I agree with those who said his true form, flashbacks included, shouldn't have been Professor Lupin. Professor Lupin isn't scary, and I don't believe for a moment a guy who looks as mild as him could have defeated Athena, Apollo, Poseidon, Hera, Artemis, Hermes, and all the others with Zeus himself all against him.

Confusing as hell, though it looks like his powers of manipulation could help him rise in power.

- Did the plane have a parachute? Did Trevor even bother to check?

Many of the pilots for WW1 wore parachutes, they did not come on the plane. Being that he just jumped in .... didn't grab one.

Overall, I found the script to be weak, and way too eager to engage with none of the fascinating questions the material practically demands be addressed. I therefore frankly care far less about Patty Jenkins returning than I do screenwriter Allan Heinberg, who has apparently spent most of his career writing for shows like Party of Five, The OC, and Grey's Anatomy, as well as various comics, not returning. And while Gadot and Pine and Jenkins did fine jobs, the script was pretty thin gruel. ("Story by" credit also went to Zack Snyder and Jason Fuchs, who gave us Ice Age: Continental Drift and Pan. Daring suggestion: maybe hire a woman writer next time?)

That said, at the screening I attended, crowds of mostly women whooped with pleasure numerous times, and that's great. Noted, they were usually doing so when Diana was killing German grunts, not Nazis or HYDRA-Nazis, which I found somewhat uncomfortable, but still, I'm glad they (and many others, men and women) liked it. In the end, for all the speculation, setting this in WW1 was virtually meaningless apart from making a superficial break from The First Avenger, whose ending (and much, much more) it copied anyhow.

I'm all for more women-led blockbusters, and movies in general. A movie can only be somewhat better than its script in the best of cases, making this a mediocre one with a great lead.

B-
 
This is still not the fanedit ideas thread.
 
addiesin said:
This is still not the fanedit ideas thread.

Again good point. Posts moved.
 
Finally got to see this....  and LOVED IT!!!  :heart:

Saw it with my wife ( who dislikes comics but has fond memories of the Lynda Carter series) and my 17 year old daughter (who has never read a WW comic in her life), and they BOTH LOVED IT!!! :heart: :heart:

Is the movie perfect?  No.  As others have already pointed out there are some head scratching plot issues, too much slo-mo and some third act issues.

But what this movie does so successfully, that both BATMAN V SUPERMAN and SUICIDE SQUAD failed miserably at, is engage me on an emotional level.   I liked these characters!  I cared about them!   I got that FEELS in several scenes -- the full costume reveal in No Man's Land, the destruction of the village and Diana's reaction, the final fate of certain heroic character.... wow!   Each time the WW theme kicked in, I could not help but smile broadly.

And when a movie connects with you on that sort of emotional level, you find yourself to be more forgiving of it's other weaknesses.   When I first heard Gal Gadot was casted as WW, I was very cynical.  Her cameo in BvS, made me more hopeful.  But here, she completely won me over.  She is wonderful.  The perfect blend of naiveté and strength and assuredness.   She made me believe in the character in a way neither Cavill or Affleck have yet achieved.   DC needs to learn from this movie going forward.   If you are going to make a movie not just about heroes, but the ORIGINAL COMIC BOOK HEROES that inspired all others, then let them be HEROES!!!!   

So I would probably give this one 9 out of 10.  Despite some plot/structure issues, this movie completely won my heart. :)  

...and oh, before I forget.... I LOVED  the Donner Superman homage scene!!!!  Awesomeness!  :D
 
Bionicbob, I think you felt as I did. It really relied heavily on Gadot pulling this off .... and boy did she.
 
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