The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Arkenstone Edition

[kane1138]

Can't wait to see this. I loved your Red Book edits, Kerr.

 

[baldie2k12]

Have Loved all your edits I've seen so far (Red Book I-VI,Casino Royale) and I'm sure I'll be saying the same about this one.

 

[TM2YC]

Finished viewing the mp4 and it's a real treat. Here is my (Rather long winded) review I just posted...

First of all, I should say that I haven't yet viewed my copy of the official Hobbit Extended Edition (As it's in it's still in it's cellophane upstairs awaiting Xmas morning) so I approach this review with only knowledge of the Theatrical cut. Secondly I didn't read the cutlist until after viewing it, so these are the reactions I had without that knowledge...

Audio/Video Quality 8/10: The look of the original Hobbit was horrible and cartoony (It brought back unpleasant memories of Indy4 IMO) and needs somebody to bring it visually in line with the nicer looking LOTR trilogy. The MP4 of Kerr's edit looked fine quality wise but I'm not sure the colour correction was a huge improvement overall. Some scenes did look massively improved, some looked very slightly worse and some still looked cartoony. I appreciate the effort though.

Visual Editing 10/10: Absolutely first class. I never felt jarred out of the experience by any removals (And there were many) and every cut was well handled and smooth to my eye. Clever little moments like using a shot of a doubtful Gandalf at the end of the council scene to change his motivation were wonderfully subtle (The faneditor in me was almost going to applaud at that bit but sadly this change was oddly contradicted in the later cave scene). From the cutlist it seems footage from LOTR was used in places but despite my near-obsession with those films none of it drew my attention as an obvious addition (It must have been blended very skilfully).

Audio Editing 9/10: Amazing and ambitious work on this front. The many changes/restorations to the score are wonderful to hear and without exception an improvement on the original. Obviously changing this amount of music required a lot of sound FX work to cover it. For the most part this was also beautifully handled but the final 'Out of the frying pan...' scene wasn't quite right. The sound FX felt a bit sparse and empty but given the complexity of this action scene nothing short of full Foley team was going to sort that out. Luckily the new/restored music in this scene was the best in the whole edit so I could easily forgive the sound FX issues.

Narrative 10/10: For me this is the edits crowning achievement. If I was to say the pacing in this edit was slower than the Theatrical cut I really do mean that as high praise. Instead of the stop-start/slow-quick/dialogue-action uneven pace of the original I just viewed a measured, well-judged and consistently paced cut. It felt like scenes like Bag End and Rivendell were given the time to breathe and us as viewers given the time to soak up the middle earth atmosphere. Then the action scenes were better cut, shortened or skilfully removed entirely. To put it simply, nothing overstayed it's welcome and nothing felt rushed.

Enjoyment 10/10: This was a joy to view from start to finish. I dimmed the lights and armed myself with a mug of ale and various cheeses and crackers (To fill up the corners) Hobbit style but instead enjoyed the filmic feast Kerr has created. If I had to find big fault, it would be in the retention of the truly awful Thorin scene at the end (I was very happy with Menbailee's removal in his cut) but again Kerr's new music improved on even this... making it at least bearable. A short list of my favourite changes (Music aside) would be the total removal of the Goblin chase (Not missed for a second), the removal of Radagast's first scene (Despite my love of Slyvester McCoy) and I loved the removal of many little silly moments throughout.

 

[kerr]

Thanks for the nice and detailed review, TM2YC!

the final 'Out of the frying pan...' scene wasn't quite right. The sound FX felt a bit sparse and empty

It seems there's a slight problem with the audio track on the mp4 version - I think the volume of the center channel is too high (or the surround channels too low). While there are obviously other factors that make the soundscape of the heavy action scenes less than perfect, the faulty mixing of the mp4 audio track might be one reason that the scene in question didn't sound right to you.

Since I consider the current mp4 version to be flawed, I'm deleting the upload, and will replace it with an updated version ASAP. Sorry for the inconvenience. :-(

 

[nightstalkerpoet]

I haven't finished viewing - stopped to sleep at rivendell last night. Just wanted to throw out two things: this is awesome and flows so much better. Also, watching the avchd, I've struggled a little with music overpowering dialogue, specifically Bilbos narration at the beginning is uneven in that regard, where parts are loud and clear and others get lost beneath the music. I had this experience on computer speakers and a 7.1 surround system.

 

[kerr]

I haven't finished viewing - stopped to sleep at rivendell last night. Just wanted to throw out two things: this is awesome and flows so much better. Also, watching the avchd, I've struggled a little with music overpowering dialogue, specifically Bilbos narration at the beginning is uneven in that regard, where parts are loud and clear and others get lost beneath the music. I had this experience on computer speakers and a 7.1 surround system.

I'm glad you're enjoying the edit so far! The audio issue you mention is not a mistake, but a necessary evil of the sound editing, unfortunately. Since a lot of music has been replaced, and the original music is still present in the center channel, the new music has to be loud enough to hide any remnants of the original. All the dialogue should still be perfectly audible, though, even if there are a few instances where the music would ideally be mixed quite a bit lower.

 

[TM2YC]

The opening Bilbo narration sounded fine to me - MP4 through stereo TV speakers.

 

[ssj]

enjoying it so far. i also found the music to be a bit loud (around the 24 min mark, iirc), so that i didn't quite catch bilbo's dialogue with gandalf within bag end.

 

[Delpheas]

I take it the editing choices for this version do not generally reflect what will be seen in the "Red Book of Westmarch" editions? (As a side note, I do hope for the HD release of LOTR RBE and the eventual TH RBE you make all the elvish blades glow around orcs/goblins. It'd be nice. As would having the White Council as an Appendix, and Radagast inserted into FotR if possible.)

I do really like the idea though of lessening the importance of the Ring, and making The Hobbit feel like a proper introduction to Middle-Earth. As LotR is a sequel to The Hobbit.

 

[DonAdam]

My wife and I watched this last night and loved it. The original is extremely uneven and this gives us a version that flows more smoothly, doesn't feel like a chore to get through, and hits all the high points. Extremely well done!

 

[LastSurvivor]

Kerr.. my congratulations to you. An excellent example of just what can be achieved with fanediting. I've posted my review on IFDB. One of edits of the year for sure.

 

[eodell48]

Kerr:

Thank you for this edit! I just joined the site specifically because of this edit. I haven't watched it yet, but I can't wait.

It seems, though, like there's a problem with the most recent MP4 version. When I tried to play it in VLC Player (Mac), it gave the error "main: no suitable decoder module for fourcc `ac-3'. VLC probably does not support this sound or video format." It then played the video without any audio. VLC Player usually handles just about anything I throw at it. QuickTime Player also choked on the file.

I ran the file through Handbrake to process and resave it without any reencoding of the streams, and the resaved file plays fine now for me.

Thanks again for your work!

 

[Neglify]

You're missing a codec it sounds like.

 

[nightstalkerpoet]

If he just ran a passthrough/resave, it sounds like a container error.

 

[kerr]

Kerr:

Thank you for this edit! I just joined the site specifically because of this edit. I haven't watched it yet, but I can't wait.

It seems, though, like there's a problem with the most recent MP4 version. When I tried to play it in VLC Player (Mac), it gave the error "main: no suitable decoder module for fourcc `ac-3'. VLC probably does not support this sound or video format." It then played the video without any audio. VLC Player usually handles just about anything I throw at it. QuickTime Player also choked on the file.

I ran the file through Handbrake to process and resave it without any reencoding of the streams, and the resaved file plays fine now for me.

Thanks again for your work!

Hi, and welcome! Thank you for bringing up your problems with the mp4. On my end it plays fine in both VLC and Windows Media Player, but I encountered similar problems to what you're describing when I tried opening it in MPC and QuickTime. I'll look closer into the issue when I have the time, but I'm glad you were able to solve it without too much hassle, and I hope you enjoy the edit!

Also, I want to thank everyone for the overwhelmingly positive reviews you've written. You guys rock!

 

[fridayweb]

I'm glad you're enjoying the edit so far! The audio issue you mention is not a mistake, but a necessary evil of the sound editing, unfortunately. Since a lot of music has been replaced, and the original music is still present in the center channel, the new music has to be loud enough to hide any remnants of the original. All the dialogue should still be perfectly audible, though, even if there are a few instances where the music would ideally be mixed quite a bit lower.

Only watched the first half-hour of the BD but you've done a bang-up job tightening up the glacial pace of the opening even with well-placed EE additions! I had to stop, however, because like nightstalkerpoet said the dialogue is nearly inaudible at normal (in my house) listening levels. I'll boost the center channel on my receiver considerably after reading this, but I think you've done your otherwise fantastic edit a disservice. Not being able to hear dialogue is a bigger problem than being able to hear replaced music in my book.

 

[dangermouse]

Audio was fine for me - I watched the BD, through headphones via my sound system.
Enjoyed this cut immensely - until the end. The warg tree fire fight thingy just felt totally unnecessary. The film felt ended on "I will help you get your home back", cut to looking at the Lonely Mountain. Now I know you kept Azog because of continuity, but nothing really happens in this fight at all, and I would wager it could be safely cut.
I didn't notice the music changes AT ALL, so kudos there! I liked the cuts to the trolls, although it was maybe a little too short now.
This is certainly to date the *best* version of AUJ by far, and is my go to version - but I'm still waiting for another edit to come along. Look forward to see what you cook up after viewing DoS and seeing what more can be cut in AUJ.
Applause for another amazing kerr edit.

 

[kerr]

Thanks for the reviews, dangermouse and masirimso!

This is certainly to date the *best* version of AUJ by far, and is my go to version - but I'm still waiting for another edit to come along. Look forward to see what you cook up after viewing DoS and seeing what more can be cut in AUJ.

Well, I've seen DoS, and because of the way the story is picked up, there isn't really anything more I'd want to cut from AUJ in a three-film version of the story. There are a just couple of lines in AUJ that I was hoping might have some relevance in DoS that could have safely been cut, but otherwise I'm happy with the current cut. I would have liked to remove the "Out of the Frying Pan" sequence, like you suggest, but it does have to be there in order to fit with the beginning of DoS. When all three films are released, though, and I can begin combining footage, I have a lot of fun ideas. DoS spoilers follow...

Reveal message

- It might be fun to use the Bree prologue from DoS between the AUJ EE scene of Bilbo at the market and the unexpected party. That would completely change the chronology, of course, but the scene helps clarify a few plot points, and I don't think it would fit anywhere else in a combined edit (even if I end up with two films, I'm guessing the TaBA prologue will be a better prologue for film 2 than the Bree sequence.
- I fully plan on completely removing the "Out of the Frying Pan" sequence, and I know exactly how to do it: At the end of AUJ, instead of hearing wargs, the dwarves hear a bear. Gandalf tells them to run, and we cut to them running from Beorn in DoS. Visually I'm pretty sure the two scene are an almost perfect match (with some color correction), making the transition between films completely seamless.
- I'm also hopeful that Azog can be removed completely. Based on AUJ and DoS I know it can be done, but I suspect he'll have to be included as the (unnamed) commander of the orc army in the Battle of Five Armies, which I think would be OK.
- Removing Azog also means removing all scenes of the orc pack hunting the dwarves, which, again, I'm certain is possible, but means I'll have to cut a lot of other stuff as well... But fortunately it's all stuff I'd want to cut anyway.
- The "Barrels out of Bond" action scene will have to go. I thought it was a really enjoyable action set piece, and much better than Goblintown, but, like Goblintown, it's entirely expendable.
- Kili's injury will also have to go, which means he can't stay behind in Laketown. I'll have to wait for TaBA in order to determine if this cut is feasible, but based solely on DoS, I think it can safely be implied that all thirteen dwarves go to Erebor, since I plan on focusing mostly on Bilbo anyway.
- Tauriel, Legolas and Bolg appearing in Laketown will obviosuly also be gone.
- I was really sceptical about whether or not the pointless action sequence between Smaug and the dragons could be cut without sacrificing continuity (for a moment I feared that Smaug would be permanently golden from here on out), but luckily it can be cut completely and seamlessly.
- I haven't decided on what I'm going to do with the Dol Guldur subplot. So far it has been really boring and repetitive, but I'm hoping there will be a really satisfying payoff in TaBA.
- There wasn't any obnoxious reuse of music like in AUJ, but there was still a lot of music missing, which I think really hurt the film. So once again I'll restore most of Howard Shore's music to the film - but fortunately it will be much easier this time around, since I only have to add music, and not replace anything.
- If I were to make a rough estimate, I think there's about 2.5 to 3 hours worth of footage in the first two films that I'd like to include, which means I'll most likely have to make a two part edit instead of combining the three films into one mega-film. I haven't decided where to end the first part yet, but my thinking is that there will hopefully be a lot of good stuff in TaBA, meaning that part one could end with Smaug's death, while part two deals with the fallout of that and most of the Dol Guldur subplot.

So those are my ideas for a combined Hobbit edit based on what I've seen in the first two films. I'll probably make a standalone "Arkenstone Edition" of DoS as well, even though I don't think the film can be improved much through simple trims in the same way as AUJ. I do have some vague ideas about how to edit it, though, but I'll have to see it again in order to determine whether or not they can work.

 

[Delpheas]

I fully plan on completely removing the "Out of the Frying Pan" sequence, and I know exactly how to do it: At the end of AUJ, instead of hearing wargs, the dwarves hear a bear. Gandalf tells them to run, and we cut to them running from Beorn in DoS.

But isn't "Out of the Frying Pan" in the book? The Company was chased by Wargs out of Goblin Town, hence the hiding in the trees, Gandalf throwing fire, and the eagle rescue. What point would there be in cutting it? Wouldn't it be easier to simply trim it?

 

[kerr]

But isn't "Out of the Frying Pan" in the book? The Company was chased by Wargs out of Goblin Town, hence the hiding in the trees, Gandalf throwing fire, and the eagle rescue. What point would there be in cutting it? Wouldn't it be easier to simply trim it?

The scene is, of course, in the book, and it would be possible (but in no way easier) to cut the scene in a way that would remove the orcs but keep the wargs. But what would be the point? What would the scene add to the story? Without Azog, the scene becomes completely irrelevant, other than to introduce the eagles, who in this scene are nothing more than a deus ex machina - something that Tolkien desperately wanted to avoid in his books. So even if the scene is in the book, it would, in my opinion, be truer to the spirit of Tolkien to not include it. After all, Tolkien himself had the following to say about a poor adaptation of a much larger action-setpiece (Helm's Deep):

It would, I guess, be a fairly meaningless scene in a picture, stuck in in this way. Actually I myself should be inclined to cut it right out, if it cannot be made more coherent and a more significant part of the story.