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The Godfather Chronological Edit: FULL HD Rebuild - MAX LENGTH 10h 5min

Hello everyone :)
I watched four movies over the weekend: The Godfather: Don Vito Opus, Michael Opus, The Godfather Part 1 and 2 Wraith's Extended Edition. I'm happy about this.
1. Godfather: Don Vito Opus - Robert de Niro and Marlon Brando in one film. This version of the film is very close to Mario Puzo's novel. And that's great.
2. Godfather: Michael Opus is a new look at a story you already know.
Michael's story from the second part combined with the third part is a completely new 325-minute experience. The third part benefits greatly from this. The story is more coherent and complete.
3. The Godfather Parts 1 and 2 Extended benefit greatly from extended scenes. The Godfather Part 2 is very close to the movie script of Part 2.
I'm glad the movie returned the scenes with Michael and Connie at lunch and other deleted scenes.
From now on, these are my favorite film versions of the Corleones saga.

Thank you very much Wraith for your great work.
 
Hi, :)
Last night I watched The Godfather Don Vito Opus and Michael Opus for 10 whole hours. This edition is great. I've watched the Godfather trilogy 30 times. The Godfather Trilogy and Once Upon a Time in America are my favorite movies. This montage is the best version of the trilogy. The Wrait version includes all deleted and available scenes. Don Vito Opus details the rise of the Corleone family from Sicilian times until 1955. Michael Opus focuses on the fall of the Corleone family under Michael's rule. Both films show in detail the differences between father and son. It is also great that the story begins and ends in Sicily (1901 - 1997). Michael Opus includes a new montage showing Michael in 1968 living alone with his sister Connie as in the original script. Additionally, the final montage in memoriam also makes a great impression.

Wraith thank you very much for your great work.
 
I have to check out one of these godfather edits one of these days. Not sure which one yet though...
 
I have to check out one of these godfather edits one of these days. Not sure which one yet though...
The same material is orginaised in both ways...Structured per the Theatrical versions Or chronologically...Notheg is missing,though some scenes differ (such as Mike Jnr bedtime) due to how Part 2 was restructured...

Watch one this year, and another next year (that will be 32 times!)
 
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The same material is orginaised in both ways...Structured per the Theatrical versions Or chronologically...Notheg is missing,though some scenes differ (such as Mike Jnr bedtime) due to how Part 2 was restructured...

Watch one this year, and another next year (that will be 32 times!)
They're both 10 hour edits correct?? I was looking them up and I got a little confused because it looks like you have a runtime of 280 minutes on the listing but it says over 600 minutes in the brief synopsis. I'm assuming they're both 10 hours containing the whole trilogy. Is that correct?

Which do you prefer? Theatrical or Chronological??
 
Thank you
Salute Aye Aye Captain GIF
 
LOL ...was i heavy handed? apols
 
LOL ...was i heavy handed? apols
No your good. I'll have to grab this off you one of these days. 10 hours is a big commitment but maybe on a rainy day over a weekend sometime. I love these movies but I'm not a super fan that remembers every scene and all. I see it's a legendary edit here though so....it's on the to do list...
 
You won't regret either, @PanteraSteel. I have a soft spot for the theatrical order because they cut (and it seems forever lost) so many hours of Part II that to me, the chronological order had always been a bit weak in direct comparison. Vito's background story was supposed to be much longer, showing his rise to Don. Also Michael later taking over Roth's estate and going into politics; Thus explaining his vast wealth later in Part III. Because of this, I find that the flashbacks make the movie stronger. Had Coppola not cut over 2 hours from it, I'm not sure I would be saying it. When all was filmed, George Lucas apparently told him he had two separate movies and to delete one of them... What an absolutely insane sentiment . Either way, Paramount wanted Coppola to do a Godfather prequel and a sequel from Part II. But he felt it would be more impactful to tell two stories in tandem.

What is more important than the order, is that Wraith's edits are the most complete versions you can find anywhere. The deleted and extended scenes that are available, will be found there.
 
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Is this the editions that are already released or is this a big epic like ModernKnife?
 
I have written about the credit music Don @Wraith chose for his edit in the recent past. Like the extended cuts that were modelled after The Godfather Saga (The Complete Novel For Television, The Complete Epic, The Godfather Epic, The Godfather Trilogy, etc.) it is Part II's cue, named End Title. Today, I instead want to share my findings on the first film's credits.

The last music in the movie we hear starts to play as Kay confronts Michael about Connie's accusation. It finishes with Al Neri closing the door on her. This cue is called Finale and is a short re-imagination of the Godfather Waltz or Main Title, stripped down. After having been unreleased for over half a century, it was finally put on the 2022 50th anniversary soundtrack for us to enjoy. The screen fades to black and the credits begin to roll. Now there is music after the movie. It's a montage of the most important themes of the film. This is an individual recording, not pieced together from the cues as heard in the movie or later on the soundtrack. But more about that further down.

Franco Sciannameo was granted insight into the composer's notes by Nino Rota's estate. He wrote a book about this: Nino Rota's The Godfather Trilogy - A Film Score Guide. Which he made digitally available for free, recently. In it, he reveals how the cue that plays in the credit roll was called The Godfather Finale. As if it wasn't confusing enough already that we have Finale and The Godfather Finale, it gets worse! There is another piece named exactly that, The Godfather Finale. That is track no. 12 on the 1972 official soundtrack. Since CD 2 of the 2022 re-issue is the old album remastered, it is track no 12 on there as well. This remastered audio would soon become crucial in my findings. I'll quote Franco:

"THE GODFATHER FINALE (19M3) [02:52:26-02:54:56]
Scored for 2 flutes, 1 obe, 1 English horn, 2 clarinets, 2 bassoons, 3 horns, 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, 1 tuba, 1 harp, 1 piano, 1 guitar, 1 accordion, 2 mandolins, strings (10-8-6-6-4). Recorded on 1/17/72. CD 1–Track 12 The Godfather Finale [Extended Version with Dubbed Chorus]".

He is telling us here, is that the soundtrack version of The Godfather Finale is just the music recorded for the credit roll with a mixed male and female vocal choir added to it. So what is this extended version, then?

What I have found out, is that there are multiple recordings. I would have not dared to make this judgement from my old vinyl of the soundtrack, with how tempo and pitch are susceptible to the moods of the equipment. And said that the other versions were probably just shortened from a master cue or mother track. With the remastered CD, however... This 2022 re-issue has two interesting things on CD 1. Track no. 29 End Credits and track no. 36 End Credits (Alternate).

As ever so often, at least without any context provided, this isn't correct, either. Neither are the credit music edit. First thing's first, these two are separate recordings, not different edits of the same one. Which I can say 100% safely as the tempo starts to faintly diverge at around the 12 second mark and some ornamentations are ever so slightly different. I put this in my digital audio work station to measure. The Godfather Finale from the soundtrack was not just End Credits (Alternate) + a choir added later. The credit roll music also wasn't just cut down. The credit music has been shortened, but also edited together from different parts of both tracks End Credits and End Credits (Alternate).

Why is any of this important? Well, it really isn't. It started with writing out the mandolin parts years ago, just for myself. But I soon wanted to transpose the entire thing. For love of my mental health, especially with the confusion the soundtrack re-issue provided, I needed to confirm whether there really were any additional versions of the credits. Because in my little companion notebook I used when transcribing/transposing the score and making time stamps, I some time last year wrote down having found an aditional credit roll that comes after the usual one. I wasn't able to identify this version though before Wraith lent me his resources. I got confused because it appeared during the "The Godfather was scanned, digitally restored and film recorded in 4K resolution" title card, thanking the people who worked on the restoration. I thus had frantically been going through the newest DVD, Blu-Ray and streaming versions - To no avail.

Now I know that this is because it's exclusively part of The Coppola Restoration, which is actually the HD version. This reminded me of a convo I had with Wraith some months ago about how they have been sitting on the 4K edition for very many years. Before then making some unfortunate edits and releasing what many of us agreed to be a visual and atmospheric downgrade. Either way: You'll know you got the right version when the golden Paramount screen has the "A Viacom Company" sub logo. The oldest and newest versions of the movie have a blue screen and "A Gulf + Western Company" sub.

In a long line of batshit insane editing decisions this trilogy had to endure, the now longer running credits were given additional music. So far, so good. But rather than now putting in one of the longer uncut versions of the, you know, music made for the credits... They instead retained the old, shortened cut and then, after one second of silence, for the restoration roll added Sicilian Pastorale from when Michael is walking with Calò and Frabrizio in Sicily in the movie, which was track no. 6 on the 1972/2022 soundtracks. Which though would have been too long in it's entirety at 3:01, as they took the pre-recorded cue this time. And so they shortened that as well, to 1:29. Sigh!

In terms of tempo, The Godfather Finale, End Credits and the credit roll all run at the same speed. End Credits (Alternate) is the slowest paced. While the credit roll has always been the shortest of these versions because of how many elements have been cut out in the middle, the HD version then funnily still made them the longest. Anyway, here is an edited overview of what I wrote down in my notebook. I removed the timestamps and note/volume differences for the sake of everybody's sanity, just to give you guys a quick overview of how things were edited:



The Godfather Finale - 1972/2022 soundtrack
Michael's Theme / The New Godfather + vocal choir
Apollonia with long guitar outro
Love Theme + vocal choir
Main Title as viola solo
Main Title with orchestra + vocal choir
The Godfather Waltz
- 3:53 length


End Credits (Alternate) - 2022 soundtrack
Michael's Theme / The New Godfather
Apollonia with short guitar outro
Love Theme
Main Title as viola solo
Main Title with orchestra
The Godfather Waltz
- 3:53 length


End Credits - 2022 soundtrack
Michael's Theme / The New Godfather
Apollonia with short guitar outro
Main Title as viola solo
Main Title with orchestra
The Godfather Waltz
- 3:19 length


Credit roll - 1972 theater release/ VHS / 2001 SD DVD The Godfather Collection / 2022 4K DVD & Blu-Ray 50th Anniversary (blue logo, Gulf + Western)
Michael's Theme / The New Godfather
Apollonia with long guitar outro
Main Title with orchestra
The Godfather Waltz
- 2:30 length


Credit roll - 2008 The Coppola Restoration HD DVD & Blu-Ray (gold screen, Viacom)
Michael's Theme / The New Godfather
Apollonia with long guitar outro
Main Title with orchestra
The Godfather Waltz
Sicilian Pastorale shortened after the oboe intro
- 4:01 length
 
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@4p0110n14 ‘s findings are not only fascinating, they again illustrate the disorganised manner these films have been treated as differing versions have been assembled, edited, censored, upgraded, downgrade, uncut and resequenced.

You already all know, I found multiple alternate takes, looping of dialogue variants and more.

Some shots were scored in some versions, not in others.

Amazing work @4p0110n14
 
That about sums my feelings up on the matter, as well. It is quite stunning to me how these movies have been treated so... Not always badly, but almost always weirdly. Too many cooks in the kitchen, maybe?!

Thank you for the compliments, @Wraith. It was your gracious help that enabled me proof watch and fact check everything to complete my notes. Impossible before/without you, really.
 
That about sums my feelings up on the matter, as well. It is quite stunning to me how these movies have been treated so... Not always badly, but almost always weirdly. Too many cooks in the kitchen, maybe?!

Thank you for the compliments, @Wraith. It was your gracious help that enabled me proof watch and fact check everything to complete my notes. Impossible before/without you, really.
Always happy to help anyone afflicted with the same condition I “suffer” from….
 
Which do you prefer? Theatrical or Chronological??
Chronological...by far...

The theatrical Part II was created in poist production and NOT intended to be non-linear...It was suppose to be Young Vito The Michael with an intermission... The first rough cut exceeded 5 hours and contain even more material which is allegedly lost following the assembly of The Saga. Epic, Trilogy and Novel for TV.

A good example of the restructuring, which allows for a lot of stuff to be cut and let the audience fill the gaps, is Michael Jnr bedtime scene which not only is incorrectly placed in the Theatricalk version, but contains looped dialogue to make it work. The chronological has the correct dialogue and placement.

Run time now stands at 10hrs 6 mins for both.

The final revisions may add a further minute or two when I find my 4K PArt III theatrical version disc, which I have annoyingly misplaced...
 
The Godfather Saga was the 9.5 hour cut they edited for the NBC in 1977 from Part I and II. Since the people who worked on it always spoke of cutting it down, we know that even more footage seems to exist! The idea was in the works before anyone in television approached the director or producers about it, if I recall correctly. When the Saga edit was finished, the NBC executives viewed it and said that is way too long - Make that 9 hours with commercials! And so it went back to the cutting floor to make room for ads. That is how we got the 7.25 hour TV version that was called The Godfather: The Complete Novel For Television. It had some censored scenes that were worked around by overdubbing the dialogue and not just cutting off early in violent segments, but using alternate takes such as long shots from camera angles farther away (Barzini getting assassinated is a great example of this). Unfortunately, a lot of the original Sicilian and Italian also were lost in this process, as NBC said that people would fall asleep in front of their TVs if they had to listen to so much "foreign". Those overdubs into English are not good, but we did get some additional music out of them, too. As Clemenza and Vito sit in the coffee house and the get together at the funeral wake, for example.

All of this is to say that the Saga existed for a brief moment in time before being obliterated in favor of the Novel. And yet again no one seems to have found it important enough to make arrangements to preserve all the love and time that went into that?! Since NBC had the exclusive rights, they couldn't even release the censored TV version. Thus came The Godfather Novella, The USA Network version, The Complete Epic, The Godfather Epic and all that further watered down nonsense over the years. What AMC aired in 2012 in HD for the first time ran almost as long as The Novel did and had the violence and language put back in. But they misnamed it by calling their version The Godfather Saga. I don't even think that it was intentional false advertizing, they were just next in a very long line of people who didn't have much of an idea of what they were doing.

The studio once claimed the film destroyed in a fire. Then they said the negatives took water damage. Another time they said someone stole the material. Next, things definitely survived but are lost in some box in some storage unit that no one could find but by accident. It doesn't help that FCF seems to have absolutely no interest in releasing something that hasn't been cut to all hell and back. As it stands, the edits of our dear Wraith are the ultimate editions. Basta!



A good example of the restructuring, which allows for a lot of stuff to be cut and let the audience fill the gaps, is Michael Jnr bedtime scene which not only is incorrectly placed in the Theatricalk version, but contains looped dialogue to make it work. The chronological has the correct dialogue and placement.

To add to that, another editing mistake in the theatrical is the scene in the flashback where young adult Vito brings his wife a pear as he comes home for dinner. The theatrical edit placed it wrongly after being fired. People won't stop commenting about that scene showing how good a man Vito was, so thoughtful, yet stoic and independent. It looks like a very sweet gesture, indeed, but it was accidental.

De Niro gained what people reported to be 20-40lbs to play a slightly older Vito than what we end up seeing in Part II, showing him as a young Don in 1930's New York. He also said that they threw a coin at what point he should start wearing the mustache. You can find press photos from those scenes. He allegedly blew up at FCF when he saw so much cut in theaters. Just like two deleted scenes that survived show Vito meeting Tessio and Roth, they also filmed him meeting Brasi. And teaching Sonny how to run the neighborhood.
 
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Chronological...by far...

The theatrical Part II was created in poist production and NOT intended to be non-linear...It was suppose to be Young Vito The Michael with an intermission... The first rough cut exceeded 5 hours and contain even more material which is allegedly lost following the assembly of The Saga. Epic, Trilogy and Novel for TV.

A good example of the restructuring, which allows for a lot of stuff to be cut and let the audience fill the gaps, is Michael Jnr bedtime scene which not only is incorrectly placed in the Theatricalk version, but contains looped dialogue to make it work. The chronological has the correct dialogue and placement.

Run time now stands at 10hrs 6 mins for both.

The final revisions may add a further minute or two when I find my 4K PArt III theatrical version disc, which I have annoyingly misplaced...
While it may be sacrilegious to argue against @Wraith on this, I will vehemently disagree. I think GF2 benefits from constraints in the same way that Jaws wouldn’t have been the same movie if that damned shark would’ve worked.

It may not have be been the original intent to have the theatrical version we got, but by god it works and is so much more impactful to see these stories mirrored rather than told separately.

Obviously others disagree with me, but I feel—as a fan of postmodernist storytelling—that the theatrical is a far superior movie-going story experience.
 
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