Is there a list of all changes in PURIST?
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The Godfather Chronological Edit: FULL HD Rebuild - MAX LENGTH 10h 5min
- Thread starter Wraith
- Start date
I wonder if we can make a centralized thread for the many details of the various cuts. It's hard to comb through almost 30 pages of this thread!
I just finished watching your extended theatrical order edit of Part II. Certainly this one created many more headaches as to when to place which scene where, minding the flashbacks and the re-cuts for later releases. I was so curious how you would be solving this, @Wraith. Bravo!
There is an audio glitch at around 3hrs 20m that is so organic sounding that I had to proof watch against my other versions to make sure whether this is even a glitch. As Questadt asks "Where you at any time a member of the crime organization led by Michael Corleone?". The underscored portion only has a very quiet sound, as if the microphone on the set got turned off or the actor had moved away from it too far. It immediately picks the volume back up for the next words. Like I said, this could have easily been an intentional or accidental move on set, but my other copies retain full volume throughout the sentence.
Then a visual discrepancy that is so minor that I feel silly to point it out. In front of the church in Sicily with father Carmelo, at around 3hrs 17m. As a man reaches for Mama Corleone's hand, the shade of the entire screen gets noticably brighter before it transitions to the next scene. That moment retains the same hue in my other versions.
There is a bit of music... I have no idea where the hell you have gotten it from, with Vito and Strollo on the boat. The theatrical release obviously does not feature this scene at all, but most extended versions do. Mi Votu E Mi Rivotu (Antico Canto Siciliano) plus ambient sounds are heard, just like in an earlier deleted scene. This morphs into the cue Remember Vito Andolini (The Love Theme). Yours then at the end has an added snippet of the the descending sequence of parallel fifths that Nino Rota used so often (The New Godfather/Michael's Theme). The audio quality is a bit muddy for those one or two seconds only, so I cannot quite tell whether it's a celeste, harpsichord or xylophone, but it stops as quickly as it begins. This is not heard in any version I have ever seen. It then picks up the melody to The Love Theme once more as the scene transitions.
Again something I noticed that is not necessarily meant to be fixed at all, but just like in the first movie, a lot of the Sicilian and Italian dialogue is not translated. Since Part II has more of that, it also was more noticeable: This begins with the march opening scene and the following one of Strollo and Mosca at the house and the later one of Vito on the donkey. When Pentangeli sips wine with Anthony at the communion party, as well as when he sits with the Corleone family and insults the kids for being "Amerigani" and WASPs, lol. Other ones are Fanucci exiting the theater. And also him and the teenage gang. Pentangeli arriving at his home to find out he has a visitor. Michael and Johnny Ola sitting in a taxi in Cuba. Signora Colombo asking for a favor. Vito bargaining with Signor Roberto. Tom speaking with Vincenzo at the hearing. Michael scolding Tom in front of Al and Rocco...
There is an audio glitch at around 3hrs 20m that is so organic sounding that I had to proof watch against my other versions to make sure whether this is even a glitch. As Questadt asks "Where you at any time a member of the crime organization led by Michael Corleone?". The underscored portion only has a very quiet sound, as if the microphone on the set got turned off or the actor had moved away from it too far. It immediately picks the volume back up for the next words. Like I said, this could have easily been an intentional or accidental move on set, but my other copies retain full volume throughout the sentence.
Then a visual discrepancy that is so minor that I feel silly to point it out. In front of the church in Sicily with father Carmelo, at around 3hrs 17m. As a man reaches for Mama Corleone's hand, the shade of the entire screen gets noticably brighter before it transitions to the next scene. That moment retains the same hue in my other versions.
There is a bit of music... I have no idea where the hell you have gotten it from, with Vito and Strollo on the boat. The theatrical release obviously does not feature this scene at all, but most extended versions do. Mi Votu E Mi Rivotu (Antico Canto Siciliano) plus ambient sounds are heard, just like in an earlier deleted scene. This morphs into the cue Remember Vito Andolini (The Love Theme). Yours then at the end has an added snippet of the the descending sequence of parallel fifths that Nino Rota used so often (The New Godfather/Michael's Theme). The audio quality is a bit muddy for those one or two seconds only, so I cannot quite tell whether it's a celeste, harpsichord or xylophone, but it stops as quickly as it begins. This is not heard in any version I have ever seen. It then picks up the melody to The Love Theme once more as the scene transitions.
Again something I noticed that is not necessarily meant to be fixed at all, but just like in the first movie, a lot of the Sicilian and Italian dialogue is not translated. Since Part II has more of that, it also was more noticeable: This begins with the march opening scene and the following one of Strollo and Mosca at the house and the later one of Vito on the donkey. When Pentangeli sips wine with Anthony at the communion party, as well as when he sits with the Corleone family and insults the kids for being "Amerigani" and WASPs, lol. Other ones are Fanucci exiting the theater. And also him and the teenage gang. Pentangeli arriving at his home to find out he has a visitor. Michael and Johnny Ola sitting in a taxi in Cuba. Signora Colombo asking for a favor. Vito bargaining with Signor Roberto. Tom speaking with Vincenzo at the hearing. Michael scolding Tom in front of Al and Rocco...
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Sorry for double posting, but I just wanted to give a heads up in case anyone else will notice:
At first I thought there was a second audio glitch, but I was wrong. As the scene transitions at around 3hrs 18m from the train in Sicily to the compound in Nevada, the score cue The Brothers Mourn begins to play in your edit, as well as in my copy of The Complete Epic and the TV Novel. For reference, the standard theatrical release is at that point not scored with music until way later in the scene. Either way, the cue sounds distorted, like a vinyl or cassette tape playing back in bad condition. But this happens in officially released versions too and is thus not a problem on your or my end.
And speaking of the visuals. Every version of Part II that I recall has the same goof: At around 2hrs 2m, there is a Cuban plane being shown. The next two cuts of people rioting have what must be damaged film in the middle of the bottom screen?! It surely looks like something was either staining the negative, or maybe the neg itself had a missing piece? With how many hours they cut out from this movie, leaving that split second of damaged film which adds nothing to the plot has always amused me.
At first I thought there was a second audio glitch, but I was wrong. As the scene transitions at around 3hrs 18m from the train in Sicily to the compound in Nevada, the score cue The Brothers Mourn begins to play in your edit, as well as in my copy of The Complete Epic and the TV Novel. For reference, the standard theatrical release is at that point not scored with music until way later in the scene. Either way, the cue sounds distorted, like a vinyl or cassette tape playing back in bad condition. But this happens in officially released versions too and is thus not a problem on your or my end.
And speaking of the visuals. Every version of Part II that I recall has the same goof: At around 2hrs 2m, there is a Cuban plane being shown. The next two cuts of people rioting have what must be damaged film in the middle of the bottom screen?! It surely looks like something was either staining the negative, or maybe the neg itself had a missing piece? With how many hours they cut out from this movie, leaving that split second of damaged film which adds nothing to the plot has always amused me.
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PURIST VERSIONS
The tweaks noted above are present in at least ONE OFFICIAL VERSION...Such as the parlour music for Mama Corleone....I think it was in the first version of EPIC...not the second...I shall respond to those more fully later...
Below are the summaries for the PURIST VERSIONS>...which actually reverse most of the changes noted by @4p0110n14
DM me accordingly, noting that bandwidth is tight AND, I shall be retiring the PURIST UBERS at some time in 2024 since I need the space.
THE PURIST VERSIONS are not planned to be revised further at this time.
W
The tweaks noted above are present in at least ONE OFFICIAL VERSION...Such as the parlour music for Mama Corleone....I think it was in the first version of EPIC...not the second...I shall respond to those more fully later...
Below are the summaries for the PURIST VERSIONS>...which actually reverse most of the changes noted by @4p0110n14
PURISTS EDITS
OPUS 1- Don Vito's Opus Purist v6.01p
RT 04:39:11
The Sicily opening caption has been has been reinstated per the theatrical version.
The CAPTIONS below which were added to the Magnum Opus have been REMOVED as follows:
- 02:56 - Corleone, Sicily, 1901.
- 03:31 - The Funeral of Antonio Andolini.
- 1:22:07 - Corleone Compound, Long Island, New York, 1945.
OTHER CHANGES
Restored original Vegas Transtion (which is not my preference), removing replacement material.
OMMITED
*The restored oar clubbing scene to its theatrical version since the additional music cue is not canon.
- Run time difference, less 14 secs in total comapred to Magnum Opus
OPUS 2: Michael's Opus Purist v8.01p
RT 05:22:54
Restored original music to opening shot of Michael on pier in full.
Restored original shot of Communion with new transition with full audio.
Restored the original sequencing of events when Michael speaks to Pentangeli and the action cuts to the car bomb and then Michael's bedtime scene in its already corrected location with recovered orginal dialogue with associted audio rebuild.
CAPTIONS REMOVED that were adde to the Magnum Opus.
- Removed "His Grandson" caption from opening shot of Communion but retain "Lake Tahoe, Nevada " caption from an alternate source in HD.
- Removed 03:26 (PT2) "Lake Tahoe, Nevada" over MIchael on the pier (Added for Magnum Opus).
- Removed 03:57 (PT2) "The day of Anthony Vito Corleone's first holy communion" (Added for Magnum Opus).
OTHER CHANGES
- Removed "in memoriam" montage that was created for Novel for TV and rebuild for the Magnum Opus but retained Kay lighting the candles.
- End credits reformatted to accomodate the removal of the "in memoriam" sequence with the scoring slightly extended to fit. The Full closing music cue from Part II is retained, but has an inserted additional section to accomodate the longer running time of the credits.
- Run time difference, plus 16 secs.
DM me accordingly, noting that bandwidth is tight AND, I shall be retiring the PURIST UBERS at some time in 2024 since I need the space.
THE PURIST VERSIONS are not planned to be revised further at this time.
W
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I shall check..I do not recall an edit at that point
There is a cut there to a different source. The change in color is likely a flash frame from the alternate source. I shall add this to the corrections list
This was the rebuild to match one of the sources that has a more explicit beating on the boat. It is unique to one version and is NOT present in the PURIST version. I shall check the quality.
I added a huge amount of newly subtitled dialogue...I shall add these to the revisions and if the pacing of any existing subtitles permits for furth additions, I shall add them to the revisions.
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I'll nevertheless take a look and see if it merits improving and if it can be improved
I shall seek this out, review and act accordingly. We dont want anything messing this up...
Thank you for joingin the "Brigade Of Corleone Obessisves".......we welcome you with open arms!
W
Thank you so much, Wraith! I'm part of the family now!
No, you are right with there being no edit at the committee. I would argue that the source material of whatever version you used as a base has a fault because:
I also have to correct myself on thinking that the final scene edit you made in Part I's extended theatrical cut is what caused the bad music quality there. As your purist magnum opus version (without said edit) has the same audio issue in the same place.
I was wondering whether that is it! No issue, either way.
No, you are right with there being no edit at the committee. I would argue that the source material of whatever version you used as a base has a fault because:
I also have to correct myself on thinking that the final scene edit you made in Part I's extended theatrical cut is what caused the bad music quality there. As your purist magnum opus version (without said edit) has the same audio issue in the same place.
I was wondering whether that is it! No issue, either way.
The timestamp for the possibly damaged frame in Cuba was of course from the extended theatrical edit. I should have really given that of the standard theater/home version, too so that everyone can compare. The plane is shown at 1:46:42 for me on the DVD. Then it cuts to the rioting. At first, it seems like the dark shadow is just a poorly lit object or person being thrown to the ground. But as the motion keeps happening around the shadow, you will see that it is actually a mark on the film. It looks like a puzzle piece to me...
Since new users cannot post links, I have DMed an imgur link to Wraith so he can not just analyze them, but share the images on my behalf if he would like to.
Since new users cannot post links, I have DMed an imgur link to Wraith so he can not just analyze them, but share the images on my behalf if he would like to.
The damaged Cuba frame is well known and even referenced in FFC's commentaries and the special features on the recent 4k print.
On Part III’s extended cut: La Fine!
I am one of the many who has always treated this film somewhat stepfatherly. I am not as intimate with it as I am with Part I, II or the concept of the Saga that unfortunately never was. It is not a bad movie by any means, just a bad Godfather (!) movie. That is a difference. Talk about suffering from success… It mostly feels like a botched Godfather tribute, rather than a sequel or the much advertised coda piece. I honestly think if Scorsese or another usual suspect had made this, people would be falling over for it being one of the greatest of all time like they always do for him. Part III remained aesthetically pleasing, but just superficially so. On the same note (pun intended), I think what Carmine Coppola did with Nino Rota’s score is too on the nose and Anton Coppola did not cast or conduct the Cavalleria Rusticana portion properly. Maybe it would have been better had Duvall signed on for the original screenplay of a war between two brothers. Or maybe it was doomed from the start as a money grab.
So I will say that while I was bewildered why the director, the actors and the fans left such favorable reviews for the 2020 Coda cut, it’s not like I enjoyed the standard version much better… @Wraith, once again I can say that out of everything, yours was my favorite and I have put it on my shelf as the definitive one for when I give this movie it’s 20th chance some day. I’ve had - in Sonny’s words - a very, very extra merry Christmas this year because of you!
I could spot no video/audio glitches or such, I only found some minor things:
Don Tommasino is always misspelled "Tomasino" with just one M in your edit. When Michael in Sicily asks him what he thinks of Altobello, the subtitles say "Altobelo" with one L. When Calò greets Michael and Kay at the villa and tells them of Tommasino, it is spelled as "Tamasino".
When Don Lucchesi asks Vicent for a walk, when Cardinal Lamberto asks for orange juice and sweets, when he later tells Tommasino to wait for three minutes, when Calò meets Kay, and when he later meets Lucchesi, not everything is subtitled.
The only goof is the credit run, but that is understandably because of the montage you edited. Both the standard theatrical Part III and Coda play the score cue 'End Credits' (consisting of parts of The Godfather Waltz, Vincent's Theme, Love Theme From The Godfather, Love Theme From The Godfather Part III and Promise Me You'll Remember). Your edit begins by playing the credit music of Part II in full, which is the score cue 'End Title' (consisting of modulations of Kay's Theme, A New Carpet, The Immigrant and The Godfather Waltz). And then follows it with the partial credits of Part III; Just a moment of Love Theme From The Godfather Part III flowing into Promise Me You'll Remember.
I am one of the many who has always treated this film somewhat stepfatherly. I am not as intimate with it as I am with Part I, II or the concept of the Saga that unfortunately never was. It is not a bad movie by any means, just a bad Godfather (!) movie. That is a difference. Talk about suffering from success… It mostly feels like a botched Godfather tribute, rather than a sequel or the much advertised coda piece. I honestly think if Scorsese or another usual suspect had made this, people would be falling over for it being one of the greatest of all time like they always do for him. Part III remained aesthetically pleasing, but just superficially so. On the same note (pun intended), I think what Carmine Coppola did with Nino Rota’s score is too on the nose and Anton Coppola did not cast or conduct the Cavalleria Rusticana portion properly. Maybe it would have been better had Duvall signed on for the original screenplay of a war between two brothers. Or maybe it was doomed from the start as a money grab.
So I will say that while I was bewildered why the director, the actors and the fans left such favorable reviews for the 2020 Coda cut, it’s not like I enjoyed the standard version much better… @Wraith, once again I can say that out of everything, yours was my favorite and I have put it on my shelf as the definitive one for when I give this movie it’s 20th chance some day. I’ve had - in Sonny’s words - a very, very extra merry Christmas this year because of you!
I could spot no video/audio glitches or such, I only found some minor things:
Don Tommasino is always misspelled "Tomasino" with just one M in your edit. When Michael in Sicily asks him what he thinks of Altobello, the subtitles say "Altobelo" with one L. When Calò greets Michael and Kay at the villa and tells them of Tommasino, it is spelled as "Tamasino".
When Don Lucchesi asks Vicent for a walk, when Cardinal Lamberto asks for orange juice and sweets, when he later tells Tommasino to wait for three minutes, when Calò meets Kay, and when he later meets Lucchesi, not everything is subtitled.
The only goof is the credit run, but that is understandably because of the montage you edited. Both the standard theatrical Part III and Coda play the score cue 'End Credits' (consisting of parts of The Godfather Waltz, Vincent's Theme, Love Theme From The Godfather, Love Theme From The Godfather Part III and Promise Me You'll Remember). Your edit begins by playing the credit music of Part II in full, which is the score cue 'End Title' (consisting of modulations of Kay's Theme, A New Carpet, The Immigrant and The Godfather Waltz). And then follows it with the partial credits of Part III; Just a moment of Love Theme From The Godfather Part III flowing into Promise Me You'll Remember.
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Frikken12
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I got such a kick from discovering the thread that got me into the fan editing community had been revived in such a way! I applaud you, @4p0110n14, you seem to be kicking off a new era
And once again, I’m delighted to see you get dragged back in @Wraith, you’re such a master of the craft.
And once again, I’m delighted to see you get dragged back in @Wraith, you’re such a master of the craft.
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...just adding all the tweaks to the growing list...I got such a kick from discovering the thread that got me into the fan editing community had been revived in such a way! I applaud you, @4p0110n14, you seem to be kicking off a new era
And once again, I’m delighted to see you get dragged back in @Wraith, you’re such a master of the craft.
As always, I shall repoer back.
I'm just getting the Theatrical Version of Part 3 converted....it was never released to home video and does contain additional dialogue which is NOT in any other version.
I got such a kick from discovering the thread that got me into the fan editing community had been revived in such a way! I applaud you, @4p0110n14, you seem to be kicking off a new era
I appreciate this!
I wish I had found this community much sooner. I am mostly nuts for the music. That is what has gotten me into this whole mess... I've collected, archived, transcribed and taught every bit of Godfather related music, official and non-official, that I could get my hands on. But my love for the tri... okay, duology is what has also got me interested in the whole process of film pre- to post-production over the years. Seeing what Hal and Wraith were able to do with the material just makes me happy. Lots to learn from here.
Have a nice new year, everyone.
digmyearth
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I watched Vito's Opus this weekend and am so throughly glad I had a chance to view it. So many highlights- so many outtakes that I forgot. One particular standout was the scene with Michael and Kay once he returns from exile. That scene has always bugged me because it's a significant time jump that is disjointed to say the least. Adding the scene with Michael and Vito in the garden prior to the shot with Kay at the school resolves this. It makes sense that Michael would return to be with his father and start his tutelage. This helps ground him and give context to the very business-like Michael surprising Kay. Instead of implied maturity, seeing the start of a year with his father explains the character change.
All in all, well done Wraith. Thank you for doing this.
All in all, well done Wraith. Thank you for doing this.