Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi

[DonKamillo]

That quote of Mark Hamill is so out of context, it refers specifically to the cut scene with him mourning the death of Han. He's not referring to the rest of the movie.

Regardless of what he may or may not have meant with that quote, if you really believe that cutting out the mourning scene is the only thing that bothered Hamill about that movie, you should read up on some of the other stuff he has said.

For example this:
https://www.indiewire.com/2017/12/m...ars-wars-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-1201910486/

or that:

There's an endless list...

...but what Hardbackyoyo said is definitely true.

You should replace "definitely" with "in my opinion" and let's agree to disagree on this one mate 

 

[addiesin]

Mark Hamill has never written or directed. He's a very nice guy who turns in good performances but to take his word as proof the film has something inherently wrong with it is misguided. 

Sound bytes and hyperbole are easy, but context is important. However you feel about this film, it's your opinion. There is no overall consensus and probably won't be one for a decade (though there is a Rotten Tomatoes critic consensus, that's not what I mean).

 

[DonKamillo]

Mark Hamill has never written or directed. He's a very nice guy who turns in good performances but to take his word as proof the film has something inherently wrong with it is misguided. 

Sound bytes and hyperbole are easy, but context is important. However you feel about this film, it's your opinion. There is no overall consensus and probably won't be one for a decade (though there is a Rotten Tomatoes critic consensus, that's not what I mean).

Though the direction was beautifully done for the most part, you don't need to be an expert to see that the story of this movie is a hot mess.

Apart from more obvious reasons like the butchering of Luke's character, the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue, the Canto Bight side plot going nowhere or Holdo being secretive about her intentions for no reason at all than to provide a twist near the end of the movie, Johnson tries to be provocative with his ideas of good and evil but ultimately doesn't go through with them turning everything he set up on its head in the third act. 

I recommend this video which goes more into detail about those contradictions in the story:

 

[The Scribbling Man]

 

[addiesin]

Though the direction was beautifully done for the most part, you don't need to be an expert to see that the story of this movie is a hot mess.

Apart from more obvious reasons like the butchering of Luke's character, the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue, the Canto Bight side plot going nowhere or Holdo being secretive about her intentions for no reason at all than to provide a twist near the end of the movie, Johnson tries to be provocative with his ideas of good and evil but ultimately doesn't go through with them turning everything he set up on its head in the third act. 

Those are the same complaints I've heard a hundred times but I just don't see them as particularly convincing reasons the film is "bad" (though they are legitimate feelings for anyone to have toward the film). It sounds like there were choices made and you disliked those choices, it doesn't make the film automatically, inarguably bad.

I don't think it's a perfect film, or even a great one (I think it's "fine"), but to reiterate my earlier point, this film is highly divisive and difficult to agree on. It's even difficult just to talk about because some see strengths where others see weaknesses and vice versa, but nobody acknowledges this as they instead steam forward as if everyone is in agreement about things they consider obvious.

Obviously you feel strongly or you wouldn't be making an edit. And obviously you're not alone in your feelings, hence the interest in your edit. I'm not trying to tell you how to feel about the film (or how to edit it), just hoping that maybe when you see people have the knee-jerk opposite reaction you can at least see where they're coming from and maybe help de-escalate the high emotions that the movie seems to stir up, even if you don't agree with said people.

There are films that are much better and much worse, and more worth arguing over, than this film, even just in the confines of this franchise. In my opinion.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue

Any credibility you might have had just went out the window with this statement. This is a garbage term.

 

[TV's Frink]

Mark Hamill has never written or directed. He's a very nice guy who turns in good performances but to take his word as proof the film has something inherently wrong with it is misguided. 

Sound bytes and hyperbole are easy, but context is important. However you feel about this film, it's your opinion. There is no overall consensus and probably won't be one for a decade (though there is a Rotten Tomatoes critic consensus, that's not what I mean).

Though the direction was beautifully done for the most part, you don't need to be an expert to see that the story of this movie is a hot mess.

Hot Take Alert

 

[DonKamillo]

the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue

This is a garbage term.

Yet everybody here still knew exactly what I meant so that works for me 

Hot Take Alert

I guess, I stumbled into cynic central here. Better turn around quick and head back...

I'll leave you all with this extraordinary piece of writing and visual storytelling:

 

[The Scribbling Man]

^^^That's an unfortunate thumbnail.

 

[Zamros]

^This thread

 

[Masirimso17]

Regardless of what he may or may not have meant with that quote, if you really believe that cutting out the mourning scene is the only thing that bothered Hamill about that movie, you should read up on some of the other stuff he has said.

...but what Hardbackyoyo said is definitely true.

You should replace "definitely" with "in my opinion" and let's agree to disagree on this one mate 

I'm aware of what Hamill felt about the whole movie, he's entitled to that opinion, but I don't agree. I especially admire how he's such an incredible sport about Rian Johnson's direction and his own opinion. Sure he expresses his disappointment and occasionally makes sarcastic reMarks about it, but he's never a jerk about it (unlike , which is what makes him such a great guy.

About the fishing and milking scene, you can't argue about the function of that scene. What Hardbackyoyo said about how it serves the purpose of explaining how he survives in this island and to disenchant Rey, is definitely true. However, we can agree or disagree on how important this scene and its functions. You think it's unnecessary to include it because the effects of the function are inconsequential, and I respect that view. I personally think it's good visual exposition and character building. Sure, the mourning scene should have been included, but that's beside the point.

Anyway I regret following DigMod's advice and reactivating this thread. I should have kept quiet

 

[TV's Frink]

the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue

This is a garbage term.

Yet everybody here still knew exactly what I meant so that works for me 

I'm sure you can think of another way to express your opinions about a female character that doesn't descend to that level.

 

[DonKamillo]

the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue

This is a garbage term.

Yet everybody here still knew exactly what I meant so that works for me 

I'm sure you can think of another way to express your opinions about a female character that doesn't descend to that level.

I guess this is a derogatory term huh...let me rephrase that:

...the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland fictional female character who is exceptionally talented in an implausible wide variety of areas, possesses skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting, lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant character flaws, is overwhelming other canon protagonists with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and/or other virtues, who are therefore quick to adopt her as one of their true companions (if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal) and are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders mostly watching from the sidelines as she outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for a long period of time...


Better?

 

[Gaith]

DonKamillo, I don't like TFA or TLJ myself, but I think you'll find, if you read the whole thread, that your above opinions (and many others) have been hashed and rehashed to death months ago. If, after reading the whole thread, you find you've got something genuinely new to bring to the conversation, by all means feel free to do so, but let's not all chase our own tails in circles, eh?

 

[TV's Frink]

the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland Mary Sue

This is a garbage term.

Yet everybody here still knew exactly what I meant so that works for me 

I'm sure you can think of another way to express your opinions about a female character that doesn't descend to that level.

I guess this is a derogatory term huh...let me rephrase that:

...the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland fictional female character who is exceptionally talented in an implausible wide variety of areas, possesses skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting, lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant character flaws, is overwhelming other canon protagonists with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and/or other virtues, who are therefore quick to adopt her as one of their true companions (if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal) and are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders mostly watching from the sidelines as she outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for a long period of time...


Better?

Why does she have to be female?

We're now getting to the root of the problem.

 

[DonKamillo]

This is a garbage term.

Yet everybody here still knew exactly what I meant so that works for me 

I'm sure you can think of another way to express your opinions about a female character that doesn't descend to that level.

I guess this is a derogatory term huh...let me rephrase that:

...the (continuation of the) main protagonist being a bland fictional female character who is exceptionally talented in an implausible wide variety of areas, possesses skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting, lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant character flaws, is overwhelming other canon protagonists with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and/or other virtues, who are therefore quick to adopt her as one of their true companions (if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal) and are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders mostly watching from the sidelines as she outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for a long period of time...


Better?

Why does she have to be female?

We're now getting to the root of the problem.

Because the male counterpart to "Mary Sue" would be a "Marty Stu". Don't get all worked up about me just being accurate with my description Frink  

 

[DonKamillo]

DonKamillo, I don't like TFA or TLJ myself, but I think you'll find, if you read the whole thread, that your above opinions (and many others) have been hashed and rehashed to death months ago. If, after reading the whole thread, you find you've got something genuinely new to bring to the conversation, by all means feel free to do so, but let's not all chase our own tails in circles, eh?

 

[TV's Frink]

No one complains about Marty Stu though.

I'm out, it's all been said before.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

Marty (or Gary) Stu is a made-up bullshit excuse to cover and defend sexist attitudes.

Drop it and move on. Official warning to all.

 

[DonKamillo]

Marty (or Gary) Stu is a made-up bullshit excuse to cover and defend sexist attitudes.

I just don't get why everybody who criticizes this movie and especially what they do with Rey as a character gets boiled down to being sexist...

A lot of my most favorite characters of all time in movies are female (go to 01:35): 
https://youtu.be/lFaSUn9bHVw[/video]

I just don't get it...

Drop it and move on. Official warning to all.

...but okay, I guess...