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Star Wars VIII - The Last Jedi

Detective said:
not quite sure what kind of person WANTS to deliberately craft their art so that a group of people think it's terrible...  
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Or what kind of company would intentionally release something that kind of person created, and then hire him for three more movies? None. None company. Because it's propaganda. Movie propaganda, as if film preferences were political ideologies or religious denominations. 

Either you liked the movie, or you didn't. If you didn't, that doesn't mean there was a Disney/Johnson conspiracy to make you not like Star Wars anymore. This is why the movie sucks to talk about. Rather than denounce the obvious clickbait and center your argument, you want to lend it credence and walk in circles like "but what about her emails his divisiveness?" 

Honestly, what about it? Regardless of intent, if you didn't like Rian Johnson's episode VIII, will it stop you from seeing Solo? Will it stop you from seeing episode IX? Will it stop you from seeing his upcoming "trilogy"? Will it stop you from being "a Star Wars fan"? If the answer is no to any of those questions, is it REALLY that bad or are you just emotional about the movie?
 
addiesin said:
Detective said:
not quite sure what kind of person WANTS to deliberately craft their art so that a group of people think it's terrible...  
Click to expand...

Or what kind of company would intentionally release something that kind of person created, and then hire him for three more movies? None. None company. Because it's propaganda. Movie propaganda, as if film preferences were political ideologies or religious denominations. 

Either you liked the movie, or you didn't. If you didn't, that doesn't mean there was a Disney/Johnson conspiracy to make you not like Star Wars anymore. This is why the movie sucks to talk about. Rather than denounce the obvious clickbait and center your argument, you want to lend it credence and walk in circles like "but what about her emails his divisiveness?" 

Honestly, what about it? Regardless of intent, if you didn't like Rian Johnson's episode VIII, will it stop you from seeing Solo? Will it stop you from seeing episode IX? Will it stop you from seeing his upcoming "trilogy"? Will it stop you from being "a Star Wars fan"? If the answer is no to any of those questions, is it REALLY that bad or are you just emotional about the movie?
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The interview was with Rian Johnson himself on video - I would denounce it and retract my statements if I saw the whole thing and his words were clearly taken out of context.  Otherwise, this is what he said, and it makes sense for TLJ.  The reasons why I and others think this is a "terrible movie" have been tread and re-tread repeatedly, so I didn't want to rehash that - but this was something new not previously discussed that I know of, so I posted it...  and honestly, I'm not sure why there is such a pushback at all...  I thought people on both sides of the aisle would see it and the last 6 months of TLJ conversations would make sense?   :huh:  

(I do think there is a political/agenda motive with TLJ that is clear with a few things surrounding Canto Bight, if nothing else, but that's a discussion for another time...)

And yes, Ep 8 has stopped me from wanting to see Solo (wasn't that interested before TLJ came out to be honest, but I was at least neutral on it), I have no interest in seeing Ep 9 or where the story goes - (Rey will fight Kylo and beat him again - what else is there to see?  There is no mystery left), I really have no interest in RJ's trilogy... (his view on the Force and right and wrong is something I heartily disagree with)  I still like Star Wars though - so not sure where that leaves me - it is really that bad AND I'm a little emotional?   :D

Is there anyone that sees this interview and it helps shed light on the TLJ debate?  Or am I... solo...?
 
Detective, seriously if you can’t see what Johnson was saying, I can understand how you’d also miss the nuance in TLJ.
 
Detective said:
honestly, I'm not sure why there is such a pushback at all...  I thought people on both sides of the aisle would see it and the last 6 months of TLJ conversations would make sense?   :huh:  ...
Is there anyone that sees this interview and it helps shed light on the TLJ debate?  Or am I... solo...?
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My feelings on the video were summed up earlier. See here:

TVs Frink said:
"Star Wars Truth Exposed!!!!"

Yeah, not gonna watch.
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And yes, Ep 8 has stopped me from wanting to see Solo (wasn't that interested before TLJ came out to be honest, but I was at least neutral on it), I have no interest in seeing Ep 9 or where the story goes - (Rey will fight Kylo and beat him again - what else is there to see?  There is no mystery left), I really have no interest in RJ's trilogy... (his view on the Force and right and wrong is something I heartily disagree with)  I still like Star Wars though - so not sure where that leaves me - it is really that bad AND I'm a little emotional?   :D 
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You no longer have interest in any of the upcoming movies, but you still "like Star Wars". Sounds a little contradictory. But, you do you. I made my point and am no longer interested in repeating myself.
 
addiesin said:
You no longer have interest in any of the upcoming movies, but you still "like Star Wars". Sounds a little contradictory. But, you do you. I made my point and am no longer interested in repeating myself.
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No problem - I still really enjoy the OT - a lot.  Can I still "like Star Wars"  if I don't happen to like the direction they're going currently?  I'm a bit confused why that would be contradictory...  it sounds like you would say that Harmy doesn't like Star Wars because he doesn't like the Special Editions, not to compare myself with Harmy by any stretch - just thinking of a close analogy...  but don't feel like you need to respond, we're good.  

I'd rather discuss TLJ and thoughts on RJ's interview - if anyone knows where it's from and we can see more of it?
 
I like seafood. Except fish, most crustaceans, mollusks, and any kind of seaweed or algae. But I definitely remember having a bite of a crabcake twenty years ago and loved it. The restaurant's still around but they changed the recipe, and I can no longer actually try that specific crabcake I once had. Do I really like seafood, or am I nostalgic for one good experience that happened to involve seafood? 


Point made? Thank you.
 
I think it’s absolutely possible to be a Star Wars fan and not like aspects of it. I don’t like the PT or any of the animated stuff really, not to mention the books. I like the OT, am lukewarm (npi) on the ST so far and loved R1. 

I’ll put this in spoiler tags as it reveals reaction to Solo, but not any plot points. 

Detective, you may want to give Solo a shot. From the reviews, it sounds as though it is a fun, but safe Star Wars adventure.
 
I'll wager that, despite some inevitable flaws, more fun and satisfaction can be had watching upcoming Star Wars material than spending the rest of one's time arguing about The Last Jedi. 

In fact, I'll go one step further and say that arguing about The Last Jedi is likely to knock years off your life.

Or so TV tells me
 
addiesin said:
I like seafood. Except fish, most crustaceans, mollusks, and any kind of seaweed or algae. But I definitely remember having a bite of a crabcake twenty years ago and loved it. The restaurant's still around but they changed the recipe, and I can no longer actually try that specific crabcake I once had. Do I really like seafood, or am I nostalgic for one good experience that happened to involve seafood? 


Point made? Thank you.
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Well, currently my desk is covered in "crabcake" decorations and I've actually eaten that same crabcake just a few months ago...  Must be nostalgia though...


I'll fix your analogy: I really like crabcakes, but people keep introducing me to other seafood, which I don't like.  And I never said I liked other seafood, I told them I liked crabcakes...  This other crap tastes nothing like crabcakes!!  Even if you change the recipe, give me a variation of the crabcake - not molluks and seaweed, dammit!   ;)


Moe_Syzlak said:
I think it’s absolutely possible to be a Star Wars fan and not like aspects of it. I don’t like the PT or any of the animated stuff really, not to mention the books. I like the OT, am lukewarm (npi) on the ST so far and loved R1. 

I’ll put this in spoiler tags as it reveals reaction to Solo, but not any plot points. 

Detective, you may want to give Solo a shot. From the reviews, it sounds as though it is a fun, but safe Star Wars adventure.
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Agreed, nice pun - I too really enjoyed R1.

To your spoiler:
I'm not opposed to Solo - just disinterested.  I was already neutral; and I was going to watch it eventually - but then became put-off from TLJ.  I'll wait for reviews after a few weeks and see what happens...  Early reviews are mixed (6.5/10) - but you're right, I would prefer a fun but safe Star Wars adventure than what we got with TLJ...
 
The Scribbling Man said:
I'll wager that, despite some inevitable flaws, more fun and satisfaction can be had watching upcoming Star Wars material than spending the rest of one's time arguing about The Last Jedi. 

In fact, I'll go one step further and say that arguing about The Last Jedi is likely to knock years off your life.
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"Bingo, Ringo."
-John Lennon, I assume

Later, players.
 
Detective said:
Well, currently my desk is covered in "crabcake" decorations and I've actually eaten that same crabcake just a few months ago...  Must be nostalgia though...


I'll fix your analogy: I really like crabcakes, but people keep introducing me to other seafood, which I don't like.  And I never said I liked other seafood, I told them I liked crabcakes...  This other crap tastes nothing like crabcakes!!  Even if you change the recipe, give me a variation of the crabcake - not molluks and seaweed, dammit!   ;) 
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I think it’s fine to say you don’t like it. But to say that the film makers should just keep rehashing the same old shit is ridiculous. That was the problem with TFA. Each film should provide new revelations and add depth to the universe, not shrink it. 

Detective said:
Moe_Syzlak said:
I think it’s absolutely possible to be a Star Wars fan and not like aspects of it. I don’t like the PT or any of the animated stuff really, not to mention the books. I like the OT, am lukewarm (npi) on the ST so far and loved R1. 

I’ll put this in spoiler tags as it reveals reaction to Solo, but not any plot points. 

Detective, you may want to give Solo a shot. From the reviews, it sounds as though it is a fun, but safe Star Wars adventure.
Click to expand...

Agreed, nice pun - I too really enjoyed R1.

To your spoiler:
I'm not opposed to Solo - just disinterested.  I was already neutral; and I was going to watch it eventually - but then became put-off from TLJ.  I'll wait for reviews after a few weeks and see what happens...  Early reviews are mixed (6.5/10) - but you're right, I would prefer a fun but safe Star Wars adventure than what we got with TLJ...
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To both points, I’d vastly prefer a movie that gives us new ideas and new dimensions—as R1 did with blurring the lines between the good and bad guys, even if ever so slightly—to a movie that simply shows us things we’ve already imagined like the Kessel Run. I’ll see it, but I suspect we are on opposite sides of the Star Wars fan spectrum and you may like Solo way more than me.
 

Agree with pretty much everything he says in the analysis. Especially, regarding Finn' arc.
 
I personally agree with these:


EDIT: I had shared this before but had pictures and audio from the film before it was released on home video. Hope it’s fine to share now. Also please ignore the misleading title, because the video actually praises the movie.


And even though the comedy didn’t kill the movie for me, in hindsight, I have to admit this was a problem in the movie.

 
A very thoughtful video essay by Lindsay Ellis, mulling over the awkwardness of Disney selling fascist toys and fascism-glorifying stuff to kids (and adults). Does the First Order have any kind of discernible ideology, or reason for existing? No. To be fair, did the Empire in the OT, either? No. In their respective narrative contexts, however, is the First Order's lack of ideology a bigger fault in the Sequel Trilogy? Yes. (Hey, isn't that Legends of Tomorrow's Amaya getting roasted on Hosnian Whatever? Indeed.) Does Kylo Ren have any apparent character basis for being corrupted in the first place, and does he have any discernible goals beyond "me want power" now? Nope.

Anyhow, the sarcasm in the above summary is largely mine, the video is rather more neutral:

 
Gaith said:
A very thoughtful video essay by Lindsay Ellis, mulling over the awkwardness of Disney selling fascist toys and fascism-glorifying stuff to kids (and adults). Does the First Order have any kind of discernible ideology, or reason for existing? No. To be fair, did the Empire in the OT, either? No. In their respective narrative contexts, however, is the First Order's lack of ideology a bigger fault in the Sequel Trilogy? Yes. (Hey, isn't that Legends of Tomorrow's Amaya getting roasted on Hosnian Whatever? Indeed.) Does Kylo Ren have any apparent character basis for being corrupted in the first place, and does he have any discernible goals beyond "me want power" now? Nope.

Anyhow, the sarcasm in the above summary is largely mine, the video is rather more neutral:

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Obviously if you're going of just the films, you have to go to great lengths to figure out a coherent ideaology for the Empire/First Order. (Although lack of a coherent ideaology isn't exactly uncommon among fascists) It goes into further depths in the books and stuff, which show off the Empire's "Human Supremacy Agenda" and other more overt fascist ideology. I do feel that considering they wanted to do the whole "Good Guys and Bad Guys exist in a grey area" thing, they should have at least shown clearly what each of these forces were fighting for. I might like The Last Jedi, but it's no Full Metal Jacket. It's still a blockbuster trying to sell tickets and toys, and you can't sell a Kylo Ren children's costume if he's doing clearly fashy stuff and not just bad guy stuff.
 
Cont. from Anti-Cringe thread.

DonKamillo said:
Hardbackyoyo said:
The milking (and fishing) scene is great because it's deviously weird world building and it serves the story by showing how Luke is a)surviving on the island and b)desperate to disenchant this spunky padawan wannabe that just crashed his isolation pity party.
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I'm still not sure if you're being serious or just trolling but nobody's taking the original movie away from you mate. You can watch the milking scene as often as you want. 

In my opinion there's still enough world building without it in my cut and I agree with Hamill when he said:

[img=600x110]https://imgoat.com/uploads/2a0e188f50/135430.jpg[/img]
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No offense but I have to agree with Hardbackyoyo. That quote of Mark Hamill is so out of context, it refers specifically to the cut scene with him mourning the death of Han. He's not referring to the rest of the movie.

I do think the mourning scene belongs in the film so I agree with Hamill, but what Hardbackyoyo said is definitely true.
 
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