OK, I tend to allow discussions unfold on my threads without comment because I feel that edits should stand on their own, that people can talk about them, debate them and so-forth without my input. My edit was made for me, with the additional hope that others will like it. But at the end of the day I refrain from responding to criticisms of aspects of my edits because I am always the first to say that no edit will ever satisfy everyone. If you don't wan't people to criticize your art, don't release it to the public.
However, there are times when I have to break my own rules and respond to comments made, and this is one of those times. Be forewarned, I am not, and never will be known for brevity. I would make a horrible politician because I don't believe that articulate, compelling arguments can be made via sound bites or tweet-length comments. So, if you're bored and have time, sally-forth
Like a review of a fanedit, this post is made with respect for those it is in response to. These are all merely opinions, they are like a-holes as the saying goes, we all have them and one is no better than the other. However since SOTS is my creation, and because everything about it was quite deliberate I really feel compelled to respond to both Ayreonaut and TomH1138's comments.
Are you an Angel?
Padme's dialog with Anakin in Watto's shop. The dialog is terrible. There's no reason to show them developing a relationship of any kind. He thinks she's pretty, but I don't even want to hear him say it.
It surprises me how every fan edit I've ever seen cuts the Jar-Jar slapstick in this scene but leaves the "Are you an angel?" bit. (Not that I'm picking on those editors; I'm just expressing a preference.) I guess the point is to show the start of Anakin and Padme's relationship, but it's so awkward and forced and unbelievable. I think cutting this scene and just having them be brief friends actually makes their later romancemore plausible.
I am not going to disagree with the statement that the dialog is terrible. It is. It is horrible. I also tried to remove it. I spent hours trying to remove it. I returned to the scene multiple times to remove it, and not once was I satisfied with the result.
I'm sorry Tom, but I'm going to call you out for your bewilderment regarding how every fanedit cuts Jar-Jar's slapstick but leaves "Are you an angel". The answer to your question is that it's because we're editors, not magicians. I cannot count the number of times I've read non-faneditors bitch and moan about how some faneditor left in this line or that line because the line is so horrible (not just Star Wars edits here, but any edit). This is because fanediting isn't like having a [redacted] eraser. If you want to be a good editor, if you want the result of your hours and hours of work to be something that still feels like a proper movie, sacrifices must be made. Not everything can be cut. When you cut dialog (and I cut plenty of dialog within scenes, more than most I would say) you have to balance the flow of the scene, how reaction shots play in, what footage you have available, what you can cannibalize from other elements, and see how you can remove something you want, yet still have it flow like an actual scene. In the case of "Are you an Angel" the main issue (in my opinion) is that this is Anakin's opening line. It is the beginning of their conversation, and like most conversations between two strangers, it is initiated by a question. Once a question is asked, then dialog begins. There is no graceful way to eliminate the line because to cut it means you have to jump into the middle of a conversation. It is far easier to cut parts from the middle than it is the opening conversation. Now if it had already been established that the two characters new each other you might be able to restructure the sequence to follow Qui-Gon out and then cut back to the store in the middle of their conversation, but this is THE INTRODUCTION of two characters who are going to get married, have kids, and their relationship is the basis for the entire PT, and the fruits of their relationship (pun intended) are the backbone of the Original Trilogy. In addition, the blocking of the scene also prevents any chance of trying to convincingly use any middle-point of their conversation to try and work as the starting point. At the opening of the scene Padme is standing across the shop, Anakin ask her his question and as she is responding she is walking towards him until she is right in front of him. Now you can cheat blocking sometimes (I certainly have) but again, in a scene like this, you can't fake it without it just screaming THIS IS A FANEDIT AND WE JUST REMOVED SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T LIKE.
Is the angel line some of the worst writing ever? Yes. I despite the line with a white-hot anger that you can see from the moon, but I hate bad edits even more. Consulting Frink's handy cutlist, only one editor has attempted to remove the line specifically, Magnoliafan. I sadly don't have his version so can't speak to how successfully his plays out, but the only way to successfully eliminate that line in my opinion, is to cut the scene entirely, which it looks like Horace and Modernknife did, as well as possibly Q2. But if you're going to keep them having a conversation there is simply no way to remove that dialog without it screaming FANEDIT. When you see dialog you don't like, and it's in every version of an edit, there's probably a good reason for it.
That brings me to the second half of both comments...
There's no reason to show them developing a relationship of any kind. He thinks she's pretty, but I don't even want to hear him say it.
I guess the point is to show the start of Anakin and Padme's relationship, but it's so awkward and forced and unbelievable. I think cutting this scene and just having them be brief friends actually makes their later romancemore plausible.
Again I am the first to state that using Anakin's love for Padme as the foundation of why he turns to the Dark Side is a not my first choice. I have elsewhere on the forum articulated in detail my thoughts on what would have made a far stronger storyline, which would also more comfortably align with the OT based on Obi-Wan's comments to Luke and it has nothing to do with being in a forbidden relationship or missing his mommy. Unfortunately there is no way you can avoid Anakin and Padme's relationship as a key to his downfall because of the way Lucas filmed it. That being the case the task of a faneditor is to make it work in the best ways possible.
Now if Episode 1 were a stand-alone movie you could very easily cut the garage scene, in the scope of the movie itself it's not critical. But regardless of 14 year old Padme's reaction to him, Anakin's obvious attraction and attachment to Padme are key for Episode II, the entire thrust of Anakin's vulnerability is his propensity for emotion which the Jedi couldn't stamp out due to his being found so 'late' and his emotional pathways being so engrained. Because his emotional attachments are so strong, even after 10 years of training, the moment he sees Padme his emotional tendencies get the better of him. If you remove Anakin's attraction from Episode 1, his instant connection to her in Episode 2 actually becomes even more ridiculous than it already is. It makes the love story less even less believable because without establishing Anakin's emotional streak in Episode 1, there is no way to explain his immediate and complete abandonment of his training. And while I wish this hadn't been the mechanism Lucas used, it actually enhances the OT in my opinion and makes Luke even more heroic and key to finally bringing balance to the Force.
This is pure speculative opinion on my part here:
The PT talks about restoring balance to the Force, yet even the Jedi don't articulate what this is. They're the only game in town so what's out of balance? While the PT never clearly explores this, when you look at the entire Saga it is emotion.
The Sith rely on anger and hatred to fuel their power while rejecting love, peace and contentment. The Jedi rely on being centered and at peace to attain their strength, reject Anger, passion and love. Each rejects the strength of the other and both reject love. Palpatine is able to defeat the Jedi by exploiting their blindspot to passion. He deliberately schemes to put a sleeper agent in their midst who is prone to strong emotional attachment, which will be amplified by his powerful affinity with the Force. The Jedi are supremely confident to the point of arrogance, never suspecting that their rules of detachment are acting to isolate Anakin leaving him vulnerable to a kindly old man who shows him nothing but un-questioning support and belief. In the end their arrogance does blind them, and they pay the price. Anakin is consumed by this however and becomes Vader. In the end though, it is Luke that truly brings balance. Luke's love, his compassion are what compel him to not destroy Vader as Ben and Yoda insist, and instead attempt to rescue him. Luke, raised in loving (if stern) family has a fully developed emotional foundation with which balance passion with compassion, aggression with temperance. He defeats Vader with aggression, but his love and compassion lead him to spare him, and his example unlocks Vaders humanity which leads to the final defeat of the Sith (Palpatine and Vader).
It is for this symmetry that I can forgive Lucas' backpedaling on Anakin's motivations for turning to the Dark side, and why I think it's fundamental to establish Anakin's propensity to want/need loving relationships, it is the fulcrum Palpatine uses to turn everything, which all starts with.....
First Deleted Scene
The first deleted scene. It doesn't fit very well.
I just have to chalk this up to difference of opinion. The Jar Jar scene which it replaces is f'ing godawful. Also, given that I have removed virtually all of Jar Jar's slapstick from the film, this sudden act of buffoonery would be highly out of place in my opinion. Replacing it with the deleted scene as a means of getting Anakin with Qui-Gon is the far lesser of two evils, plus it has the benefit of showing Anakin's temper.
The Maker
Should Anakin have built 3PO? I think everyone agrees that this is one of Lucas' worst ideas in the Prequels. I absolutely hate it and it is obvious that this was just a way to shoehorn 3PO into this chapter because from a story standpoint he is 100% useless. I half-believe that Lucas wrote the entire screenplay with only R2 and then Rick pointed out to him "Um George, you forgot 3PO" "Oh? huh.. I guess I did.. um.. well.. Anakin makes him, done."
But I love 3PO and R2. I was a kid when ANH (AKA Star Wars) came out, and there is no denying how wildly popular those characters were. All my childhood it was known that the entire saga (all 9 films *cough* were supposed to feature the chain of events as witnessed by two unwitting droids). I understand those who cut him out and don't really take issue with it. But if you're going to leave him in Anakin's room, and he's half-built it's pretty damn obvious that Anakin is the one building him, particularly given that we later learn he built a highly complex racing machine. Removing his verbalization that he built it doesn't hide the fact that he built it, but does make it obvious that something's been edited out.
In the end, I kept 3PO in the film because I wanted him in. To keep him in, Anakin has to be his maker. Do, or do not. There is no try
The Virgin Birth.
The virgin birth is blasphemous and stupid.
Yep. If a more straightforward hero like, say, Luke Skywalker was revealed to have a virgin birth, it would have been awkward. To have Darth Vader, i.e. the Adolf Hitler of the galaxy, be immaculately conceived, is just unthinkably wrong.
First, it is only blasphemous if you're Christian. I am not.
Second, again if Episode I existed in a vacuum I would agree with the latter half of of the assessment that it was stupid, and when I first saw TPM I thought it was stupid, but I tempered that with the hope that Lucas had a point, and he did. The Virgin Birth and Chosen One prophecy remain in my edits because they do have a payoff in Episode 3 where Lucas demonstrates some of his absolute best storytelling of the PT. The Opera house scene makes it abundantly clear in my opinion that the Vergance of the Force which caused Anakin to be concieved was in fact caused either by Palpatine, or Palpatine's master, Lord Plagueis, and that Anakin was from the beginning, a pawn in Sith's plans to overthrow the Jedi. His birth on Tatooine where he would remain un-sensed by the Jedi until a time of Palpatine's choosing, and yes, I do hold the opinion that his discovery by the Jedi was orchestrated by Palpatine so as to occur only after he old enough to be emotional, but to not have any control over his emotion. His conception wasn't immaculate, it was intentionally perverse.
"It's working"
I must preface this by fully acknowledging that the Pod Race is a fully contrived, forced and transparent plot point which kills the pacing and sense of urgency to their mission. But there is no Phantom Menace without the Pod Race.
That said, I love this scene. It is actually one of my favorite moments of the theatrical cut because it is our hero, a slave who dreams of being free and being so much more than just a slave, experiencing success and joy. For me, the scene is an entirely plausible moment given the story we have to work with. It is also some of Lloyd's better acting. His joy is believable and appropriate for the age, and when accompanied by John Williams' score actually creates a nice moment.
Anakin's broken Pod-Racer
I disagree with the notion that it doesn't make any sense, but I fully understand if someone doesn't care for the effect that it has on the pacing of the segment. As far as the ramp, this is an homage to Return of the Jedi, I like it, so I kept it
"
He's Leaving Home.. Bye-bye..."
(Bonus points if you get the reference). I'm quite sad that you felt it necessary to cut this scene. It is in fact one of my favorite pieces of editing in the entire film. I worked a long time on it getting it just right and the edits throughout it are designed to emphasize the emotion of moment and eliminate the forced and poorly delivered dialog that is the original footage. It is in fact one of the scenes for which I am most proud of. Perhaps this is just a difference of perspective but I cannot see how cutting this scene improves the film. A 9 year old boy who has lived his whole life with his mother has chosen to suddenly leave not just his home, his mom, and the entire planet to go on a journey with a guy he just met. It's kind of a critical moment. The original version has a lot going for it by simple design/setup, and is greatly aided by Williams' wonderful music where for the first time we hear that refrain we love so much, and carries so much emotion. The original scene suffers from poorly scripted back and forth between Anakin and Shmi, and Lloyd's voice acting works against the material and the tone, but the core of the scene is, in my opinion quite powerful and truly key into Anakin's situation and vulnerability in the later Episodes.
I stripped out the hemming and hawing to create a more direct connection between the two, to let Lloyd's physical acting do most of the work, and to cut out the notion of his returning to free her some day because that plot-line was abandoned and never brought up again. The resulting scene is, in my opinion a pivotal moment in Anakin's story, particularly with regard to how I did the following two edits. More than almost any other scene in the ovie, cutting it just to speed up pacing, in my opinion, guts a significant amount of what little soul this movie has. I'm sorry that you felt that the scene as re-edited was bad.
Overall, Shadow of the Sith is exactly what I wanted it to be. Each scene, each sequence, each line of dialog was considered and reconsidered in terms of the episode, the prequels and the Saga overall. Nothing was done (or not done) with lazy disregard for story. There are plenty of things I wished I could have changed, but in order to create film that doesn't feel like frankenstein patchwork a faneditor sometimes has to keep an eye on the bigger picture of how everything flows together, the pacing, the reaction shots, and you have to accept that some things cannot be carved out without causing irreparable harm to the final product.
I know this will come off as lashing out, and perhaps it is, but I wanted to take the time to point out that everything is there, or not there for a reason. I still hold that I don't expect my edit to please everyone, it is an impossibility, but I did want to make note of why this edit is what it is
I'm tired, goodnight now
