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Kill Bill Reimagined (By NewSpock)

For a long edit that you're thinking of putting together, trimming down that sequence (if not removing it completely) is a fine idea. It's a fun sequence, but for what you're trying to achieve, you made the right call.
 
NewSpock said:
I think this might be controversial:
I've cut the fight against the crazy eighty-eight in half. Yes, it's cool and funny with Kiddo jumping around, breakdancing on the floor while cutting down her enemies and pulling that stick down and let it go back... but it takes away the thrill and makes the crazy eighty-eight rather harmless. So for the sake of tension I've reorganized it.

For a few days I even thought about taking out the crazy eighty eight completely but then refrained from it, as it would reduce Kiddo's achievement before meeting Oren in the garden.
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About the 'controversial' cut...

I think the way the Crazy 88 are portrayed is so that the viewer gets exactly that sentiment: that the gang consists of nothing but a bunch of goons with a (probably self-appointed) leader who is equally inept with a sword.

From the moment they walk into the establishment, abusing the public's fear and getting stiff on their power up to when Kiddo walks in, it's just so damn obvious that the Crazy 88 is nothing but a posse that is there to handle O-Ren's dirty work. Kiddo knows just as much as O-Ren that not one of them could hold his (or her) ground in a swordfight with an experienced fighter. The ease with which Kiddo dispatches everyone, and the gore of some of the dismemberment on top, is supposed to display that they're seriously in over their heads, and Kiddo is doing nothing but proving a point by taking them out so viciously. They're in over their heads, they should've stayed out of her way, but since they're there any way, they have to pay.

If you take a look at Gogo's expression when they start making a fuss with everyone, you can clearly see that both O-Ren and Gogo are zoning out of all that nonsense. They consider them little boys having some childish fun, as opposed to the trained professionals that they both are.

The whole scene is nothing more than glorified justice. They're abusing the public and they're getting their comeuppance. In part I think it's also their to serve as a bit of a breather. While Kiddo clearly is more skilled than either assassin on her list, those hits bring some challenges with them, while this could be considered Kiddo blowing off some steam from earlier events, and to get a bit of a warm up before she takes on O-Ren ;-)

And I'm with ThrowgnCpr on this. Instead of cutting it, I'd use the uncensored version. That's the best possible version of that scene, with some sprinkles on top! :lol:
 
I myself like the fight against the crazy 88, that's why I didn't cut it completely. There's still enough of it in it to get the message across. I think ThrowgnCPr means it ironically.:)

Here's a trailer for this:


Password: Kiddo
 
Well as much as you can consider his response ironical, mine isn't. I really think that's how the gang comes across, and that's how they stand in the film. I too agree that there's too much focus on O-Ren and not enough on Elle, but the gang has (almost) nothing to do with that. You could still keep the gang and trim O-Ren's story that comes before and after that.

If you leave all of Elle's scenes intact, I'm sure it will balance itself out that way.
 
Kal-El said:
Well as much as you can consider his response ironical, mine isn't. I really think that's how the gang comes across, and that's how they stand in the film. I too agree that there's too much focus on O-Ren and not enough on Elle, but the gang has (almost) nothing to do with that. You could still keep the gang and trim O-Ren's story that comes before and after that.

If you leave all of Elle's scenes intact, I'm sure it will balance itself out that way.
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The problem really is that nearly every scene in Kill Bill 1+2 is cool, and yet I have to cut some things and reorganize others for the edit. It's pretty much impossible to satisfy everyone's wishes, so I have to follow what I think is right for the edit as a whole.


The crazy eighty eight are not removed, the fight against them is merely trimmed a little in a way which I think actually improves the sequence.

By the way, I've just seen that TM2YC has managed to combine the bluray-version of Kill Bill 1 with the coloured version of the fight against the crazy eight. He calls it: "Kill Bill Vol 1: The Japanese Uncut Edition".
 
It's an HD preservation of the Japanese Uncut DVD (Which doesn't exist on BR)...

Anyway, you're not here to please others. Remember that. While we feel you shouldn't trim the Crazy 88, do as YOU want to do. Perhaps your choices won't interest or appease others as much, worst case scenario that will only hurt the 'Enjoyment' part rating of reviews people give you. Focus on YOUR narrative structure and the quality of your edit and you'll be fine.

But if it were MY edit, I'd keep 88 and trim O-R instead.
 
Kal-El said:
It's an HD preservation of the Japanese Uncut DVD (Which doesn't exist on BR)...

Anyway, you're not here to please others. Remember that. While we feel you shouldn't trim the Crazy 88, do as YOU want to do. Perhaps your choices won't interest or appease others as much, worst case scenario that will only hurt the 'Enjoyment' part rating of reviews people give you. Focus on YOUR narrative structure and the quality of your edit and you'll be fine.

But if it were MY edit, I'd keep 88 and trim O-R instead.
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Fair enough.

So while we are talking about controversial cuts, these scenes and sequences are possible candidates for being cut:

1. The hospital-rape-Buck-sequence.
2. The walk through the desert.
3. The animated backstory of Oren.
4. The fight against the crazy eighty eight.
5. Seeing Bud at work in the titty bar.
6. Bill spoilering that the child is alive.
7. Esteban talking with Kiddo about Bill and his location.
8. That asian hit-girl that attacks Kiddo with a shotgun.

Most of them are superfluous in the strict sense, but still they add some flavour to the story and/or characters. Difficult decisions ahead, that's for sure.
 
^*spoiling, fyi :)

spoil
verb

gerund or present participle: spoiling

  • 1.
    diminish or destroy the value or quality of.
    "I wouldn't want to spoil your fun"

Some cuts there I don't agree with either. Some serve to build Kiddo's character and influence her decision-making.
Off the top of my head (haven't seen either in a while because, even though I like the films, they're not favourites)...


  1. Hospital scene should stay.
  2. Walk through the desert, nothing important, I guess.
  3. Animated segment builds O-Ren's backstory but that's already been discussed.
  4. Trim the fight if you must, but don't cut it.
  5. Knowing where to reach Bud is important because (if I remember correctly) Bud points to Bill's whereabouts.
  6. Bill catches Kiddo off-guard by telling her their child is still alive to gain an emotional advantage in the upcoming fight that he knows he cannot escape. It's the same type of deal Vernita (Copperhead) tries to get Kiddo to back off with when her kid walks in on Kiddo and her fighting. She tries to persuade Kiddo in letting her grudge go since she's reformed now, has a family, can't let her daughter become an orphan, blablabla... Which is complete bullcrap because moments later she tries to pull a gun on Kiddo. It obviously doesn't work on Kiddo since that girl isn't her daughter, BUT... HER OWN daughter is Bill's trump card to make sure Kiddo is emotionally distraught and might be more prone to making mistakes. This is a CRUCIAL scene and cutting it out will knock the chair from under your edit. Wouldn't do it.
  7. Esteban informs Kiddo about Bill's location. If he doesn't tell her, who will? It will leave questions as to how she found him. Or is that covered?
  8. Don't remember that girl.
 
Kal-El said:
  1. Knowing where to reach Bud is important because (if I remember correctly) Bud points to Bill's whereabouts.
Click to expand...

No, Bud doesn't point to Bill's location.



Kal-El said:
  1. Bill catches Kiddo off-guard by telling her their child is still alive to gain an emotional advantage in the upcoming fight that he knows he cannot escape. It's the same type of deal Vernita (Copperhead) tries to get Kiddo to back off with when her kid walks in on Kiddo and her fighting. She tries to persuade Kiddo in letting her grudge go since she's reformed now, has a family, can't let her daughter become an orphan, blablabla... Which is complete bullcrap because moments later she tries to pull a gun on Kiddo. It obviously doesn't work on Kiddo since that girl isn't her daughter, BUT... HER OWN daughter is Bill's trump card to make sure Kiddo is emotionally distraught and might be more prone to making mistakes. This is a CRUCIAL scene and cutting it out will knock the chair from under your edit. Wouldn't do it.
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Don't worry, the child and all of the chitchat between Bill and Kiddo will remain. What I meant, was the little scene with Sophie where he says "Does she know that her child is still alive" that was used as a cliffhanger between Vol 1 and Vol 2.
Kal-El said:
  1. Esteban informs Kiddo about Bill's location. If he doesn't tell her, who will? It will leave questions as to how she found him. Or is that covered?
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Yes, Sophie spills all the beans, no need for Esteban (and Bill wants to be found).
Kal-El said:
  1. Don't remember that girl.
Click to expand...

You know, that asian hitgirl in the flashback near the end of Vol 2.
 
NewSpock said:
So while we are talking about controversial cuts, these scenes and sequences are possible candidates for being cut:

1. The hospital-rape-Buck-sequence. ---- I think I'll keep this.
2. The walk through the desert. ----- It's gone, I've made a beautiful transition-sequence instead.
3. The animated backstory of Oren.---- I think I'll keep the part of her parent's death and her revenging it.
4. The fight against the crazy eighty eight.---- I'll keep about 3/4 of it.
5. Seeing Bud at work in the titty bar.---- The scene with Bud in the titty-bar is gone.
6. Bill spoilering that the child is alive.---- It's gone, so it's a complete surprise to Kiddo and the viewer.
7. Esteban talking with Kiddo about Bill and his location.----- Esteban is gone, he doesn't seem to add any layer to the story.
8. That asian hit-girl that attacks Kiddo with a shotgun.---- With this one I've wrestled back and forth, but I think I'll keep it.
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I've made some decisions on what to cut or not of these. I've edited it into the spoiler above.

As to Oren's animated backstory that I keep in parts, I ran into the problem that I don't use any voiceovers of Kiddo telling things, so how to make clear that the animated story is about Oren?

I played with the footage to insert it while Oren is having her meeting with the other yakuza bosses, and while making crossovers it was possible to link Oren to the animation, but it's still not a 100% clear. But then in the middle of the night a solution came into mind: why not using the subtitles for the japanese to insert the name of Oren, either by writing Oren: ".... and then what she actually says in the animation" or by actually making her say : "I'm Oren Ishii" while revenging her parents?
 
Kind of hazy on that last part. Can you explain it in a bit more detail?
 
The problem I have is how to make clear that the girl in the animated part is Oren? In the theatrical version Kiddo's voiceover tells and explains everything, but since I've removed all voiceovers from the edit, I need a solution to connect Oren with the animated girl.

So eventually the idea came up to instrumentalise the subtitles for the japanese speech while revenging her parent's murder to make clear that she is Oren by making her say something like: "My name is Oren, look at me Matsumoto....Do I look familiar?.... Like somebody you murdered?"
 
Why don't you just switch from live-action O-Ren to animated O-Ren in jumps? As if the image is stuttering and going back and forth between them. Flash a few frames of animation O-Ren, then we see Lucy O-Ren again, then a second of animation O-Ren, two seconds of Lucy O-Ren and then you play the entire (or trimmed) animated sequence.

Handled well that would look very cool.
 
Kal-El said:
Why don't you just switch from live-action O-Ren to animated O-Ren in jumps? As if the image is stuttering and going back and forth between them. Flash a few frames of animation O-Ren, then we see Lucy O-Ren again, then a second of animation O-Ren, two seconds of Lucy O-Ren and then you play the entire (or trimmed) animated sequence.

Handled well that would look very cool.
Click to expand...

Maybe, will play with the footage and see if it can be done well and so that it's 100% clear they are the same person. If it's not possible, the subtitle-solution should work out.
 
In Kill Bill Vol 2 at the end, Kiddo's daughter wishes to watch "Shogun assassin" with her mother. "Shogun assassin" is a movie from 1980, where a samurai's wife is killed by his shogun's ninjas. Escaping with his son, working as an assassin for money, he eventually seeks vengeance...

But interestingly enough this movie from 1980, made by Robert Houston, is actually merely a reedit of Kenji Misumi's "Okami-Sword of vengeance" and its sequel from 1972, put together into a single movie removing lots of the political subplots and focusing more on the action, directly using the footage from these two 1972-movies, and adding an english dub and different soundtrack.

Sort of a fanedit, but Robert Houston actually sold it to western cinemas as if he directed it!:)
 
NewSpock said:
In Kill Bill Vol 2 at the end, Kiddo's daughter wishes to watch "Shogun assassin" with her mother.
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I've got all the original movies plus SA on DVD, but all 5 American "fanedits" are now in a rare Blu-Ray boxset. If it wasn't selling for £96 ($146), I'd be getting a copy in an instant :-(.

It might be fun to include actual footage of the SA scenes that we overhear, if you own a copy. That kid's voiceover is fantastic. SA's fingerprints are all over KB. At 0.52 into this trailer...


...Tarantino does almost that exact shot where the 3 people hang in the air until Ogami/The Bride clicks their sword and the bodies fall over. Also O-Ren does the move at 1.54.
 
TM2YC said:
It might be fun to include actual footage of the SA scenes that we overhear, if you own a copy.
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Good idea, I don't own them yet, but I think I'll order the bluray-package for the original lone wolf-movie-series for part 1-6 (with the japanese sound) and Shogun assassin, the first part of the "fanedits", with the english dub, new soundtrack and added voiceover.
 
5 films on 2 discs?? I suppose those are BD50s then, at the least?
 
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