DVD Chapter Stops - Pros and Cons

[TV's Frink]

....continuing from the Gutterballs thread...

Yes, my DVD player has resume play. But sometimes it is several days before I get back to the movie and in most cases someone else in the household has swapped it out for a different disc. My player is a good seven years old and I don't think it can remember where it was if the movie is removed. Am I missing something?

 

[Aztek463]

If the movie is removed...hell, if the tray is even opened, it will not remember where you left off, although I'm not quite sure I understand your question...

 

[TV's Frink]

I just wanted to make sure that current-day players don't recall DVD position the way my computer DVD drive does.

 

[elbarto1]

my current DVD player (a Sony DVP-NS70H which is about 3 years old) can remember the last position of up to 6 DVD's

all my older players do not have this feature though.

 

[TV's Frink]

Huh. That's cool.

So Blu-ray's can't even remember stopped locations if you leave them in the tray, or did i misunderstand that?

 

[Adabisi]

This is the player that I have. It's certainly nothing fancy, but check the specs. It remembers the resume spots for the last five discs that were in it. I can remember this function on my older players as well, for at least the last disc. Perhaps not the ones that were 7 years old, but the last 5 years at least. I couldn't live without it.

My original point was that you don't need chapters because you can just resume where you left off if you have to stop the DVD. Of course, that doesn't take into account players that don't have this feature (which has to be a very small minority, I'm sure).

I just don't see the point of chapter stops. It doesn't enhance the experience at all. If you're skipping through the chapters on a fanedit, you're completely missing the point of the edit. Just skip through on the original DVD. I create edits that are meant to be seen as a whole and I present them as such. It's the same as presenting something in 16:9 as opposed to 4:3 (or vice versa) or 5.1 sound as opposed to stereo (or vice versa). That's the way it's meant to be experienced.

If it really bothers you, you can fix it. If there's a stereo DVD that you want in 5.1, you can fake the 5.1 with the settings on your receiver. Same here. If you really want chapters it isn't that much work to put them in yourself. Essentially, you'd be creating your own personal fanedit of a fanedit. You wouldn't be watching it as the creator intended it, but then that's the whole point of the fanedit process, isn't it?

 

[Adabisi]

Huh. That's cool.

So Blu-ray's can't even remember stopped locations if you leave them in the tray, or did i misunderstand that?

Some Blu ray's can, but most can't. No HD-DVDs can. Huge flaw, IMO.

 

[JasonN]

I just don't see the point of chapter stops. It doesn't enhance the experience at all. If you're skipping through the chapters on a fanedit, you're completely missing the point of the edit.

Honestly, if I had followed that logic and made my nearly 3-hour "Evolutions" DVD without any chapter breaks, I guarantee that there'd be a f****ng riot for my head. :roll:

I create edits that are meant to be seen as a whole and I present them as such.

I believe that's the same logic that David Lynch has for the dvds of his films. Still, not being able to easily move through The Elephant Man or Inland Empire does really tick me off... :|


Honestly, though, dvd chapters are all about providing convience and a level of control to the home user and his/her entertainment experience, which is why I am in ful support of having them.

 

[Adabisi]

Honestly, if I had followed that logic and made my nearly 3-hour "Evolutions" DVD without any chapter breaks, I guarantee that there'd be a f****ng riot for my head. :roll:

I can't say I've seen it, but to include chapter breaks, you must've had a valid reason for it.

Either:
a) you don't think people will want to sit through the whole thing
or
b) there are parts that aren't necessary and can be skipped over

If it's a), then why make it? If it's good enough the viewer will want to sit through it.
If it's b), why not edit out the parts that can be skipped over in the first place?

It just seems to me that a lot of people take it as a given that a fanedit should have chapter breaks without any rationale for it other than "viewer convenience", whatever that's supposed to mean. It should be a conscious decision to add chapter breaks or not, just like any other aspect of the edit.

I believe that's the same logic that David Lynch has for the dvds of his films.

Funny, I didn't know that, but today I was just thinking that it might be fun to take a conventional, boring, middle of the road movie (something like "Marley and Me") and make a "David Lynch" edit out of it. Like edit it to have a completely non-linear structure, have the plot contradict itself all over the place, repeat scenes with minor changes in them and basically have the viewer say "WTF was that?" at the end of it.

On second thought, maybe not.

 

[Ziz]

How about

c) After you've watched it all the way through, next time you just want to skip to certain scenes for reference or to intice someone else to watch the whole thing.

 

[boon23]

what a DVD offers in comparison to VHS or avi is comfort.
That is a good thing. And it is a thing to take adavantage of. Having comfort is better than not having it.

Advantages of chapter stops:
Easily skip through a movie to watch certain parts, especially good for re-watching or showing something to someone as in: "Look how this was done".
If manually used (and a lot of faneditors do that), chapters are set for specific parts of a movie.
no chapter stops is: meh.

this can even be more comfortable by using a scene selection menu:
great comfort for people, who watch something for a specific reason, are interested in a specific part. I doubt many people have ever used my scene selection menus, but those who did, will have easily found what they were looking for.

a DVD menu is good for various things:
a) foreplay: don't underestimate the impact of a good introduction caused by a nice menu.
b) the movie does not start right ahead. A good thing. People can put in the DVD and do not have to spurt to their seat.
c) the chance of extras: anyone watching an Uncanny Antman fanedit will know what I mean. He creates nice extras and I am always looking for them. Great experience. Big fun. No menu is: meh.

A movie only DVD release with no chapter stops and no menu is a naked thing. It puts people back to the days, when they had no comfort in watching. Now one can say: "that's the impression I want to cause." but in fact that is not happening. People will, especially with a fanedit, dislike having no options at all. DVD authoring is not easy, but it's also not that hard and I for one can say, including it in my fanedits has ALWAYS been a lot more good, even though it was a lot of work.
The overall experience counts.

And the question remains: what does someone releasing a fanedit want from audience other than being entertained? Everything that adds to that is good and everything that reduces that should be avoided.

 

[JMB]

It just seems to me that a lot of people take it as a given that a fanedit should have chapter breaks without any rationale for it other than "viewer convenience", whatever that's supposed to mean.

That's supposed to mean that given a choice, I think most people want and indeed expect that functionality as part of the DVD format. Would you create and release a music CD without the ability to jump back and forth between the songs? Of course not. Why? Listener convenience.

Either:
a) you don't think people will want to sit through the whole thing
or
b) there are parts that aren't necessary and can be skipped over

If it's a), then why make it? If it's good enough the viewer will want to sit through it.
If it's b), why not edit out the parts that can be skipped over in the first place?

This is pretzel logic. By your reasoning studios include chapter stops because they think people do not want to sit through entire movies, or they have parts that can be skipped?

OK. Do you happen to have a valid reason why chapter stops are a bare minimum requirement?

The better question is, do you have a valid reason for NOT including them, as it requires almost no effort to do so?

I suggest either:
a) You don't care about the audience at all
or
b) You are being needlessly difficult about this

Of course we make fanedits for ourselves first, but obviously you want to release it as well or you would not be posting here. So I urge you to think about the end user at least a little bit, and to be a little more receptive to people's advice.

 

[Ghostcut]

No, DVD players generally don't remember the last position you were in on a disc. Please don't assume because it's on your player it's on everyone's. That's just not the case. I still consider the fact that the watcher may not watch an entire film in one sitting a valid point here.

 

[Mollo]

DVD design is a matter of taste. As for chapter selection I think it is an option that is seldom used but necessary. David Lynch chooses not to have a chapter selection option simply because his ego wants viewers to watch his films in entirety. A pretty futile gesture in this digital age.

I put chapter selections on my FanEdit DVDs more as a courtesy, than anything else, knowing full well that this option will be used infrequently, if at all. I assumed that this was a required feature for DVD's.

I use the chapter option more often since I have been FanEditing, normally to skip to the end credits to find the name of a certain song or particular information.

I think if a DVD has minimal extras the least it should offer is chapter selection.

I quite like a menu because it gives me time to get back to my chair

This is the best reason I know for having a DVD menu.

 

[Uncanny Antman]

Personally, I don't bother with an actual chapter selection screen, but I always provide chapter points.

The selection screen is something I never use, and to be honest, I just can't be bothered making one.

But having the actual chapters themselves comes in handy for easy skipping. With an average of 10 to 20 chapters, it only takes a few seconds to find where you're headed.

My take on all this is, anyone has every right not to provide chapters...but should be ready to accept the inevitable complaints.

c) the chance of extras: anyone watching an Uncanny Antman fanedit will know what I mean. He creates nice extras and I am always looking for them. Great experience. Big fun. No menu is: meh.

Bloody nice of you to say, Boon. I appreciate that.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

a DVD menu is good for various things:
a) foreplay: don't underestimate the impact of a good introduction caused by a nice menu.
b) the movie does not start right ahead. A good thing. People can put in the DVD and do not have to spurt to their seat.
c) the chance of extras: anyone watching an Uncanny Antman fanedit will know what I mean. He creates nice extras and I am always looking for them. Great experience. Big fun. No menu is: meh.

A and B here are biggies for me. I love popping in a DVD and getting excited about the design. Additionally I hate putting in a DVD that starts right off with the movie because I generally have to run to my seat. Let me get settled in.

 

[nOmArch]

couldnt we just make chapters a mandatory requirement for any edit that goes up on the site? you dont necessarily need to make a chapter selection screen (like UA) but just have the option if you want to skip through?

 

[Uncanny Antman]

Mandatory? Seems a little over the top.

 

[ThrowgnCpr]

agreed. I doubt we will ever make this a mandatory thing.

However, I think that refusing to make chapter stops places you into one of two categories (or both):

- lazy
- arrogant

Why not make your audience as wide as possible?

 

[AvP]

i dont think they are pros or cons with chapters its a standard thing in a DVD and it dont take a rocket scientist to create them...so to me its just a lazy attuide not to add them.