DC's Legends of Tomorrow

[bionicbob]

The two part 1980s Russia arc was pretty enjoyable. Again, the joy of the show for me is character interaction and dialogue. The show is very well written. Even the blatant "prison break" references worked really well...lol

Again, more subtle DC Universe building with the creation of Negative Woman. I wonder if we will ever see a full on Doom Patrol?

Next week, a trip to the future, where we meet the mysterious new Green Arrow (maybe Conner Hawke???) teased in the recent Flash episode...

Also it looks like Ollie shows up too with the full classic goatee!!! And who is the villain? They say Deathstroke in the promo, but I am guessing maybe Ravager...?

 

[bionicbob]

While the eps thus far have been fun, if not a bit non-sensical and plot holed, the strength remains in the wonderful dynamics of our heroes interactions with each other. And this latest episode, Marooned, may be the strongest to date.

Essentially a "bottle show", it takes advantage of this format to do some deep character exploration. We gain some much needed insight into Rip Hunter's past. We learn about the relationship between Cold and Heatwave, and watch it implode with great tragedy. We see a giddy Stein living out a childhood dream. Sara talks about about her death experience. Ray and Jax get some comedic moments.

Sadly, Kendra, the character with the most complex and interesting backstory, is still the least developed and is relegated to the role of love interest. Hopefully this is corrected soon, as it is a waste of a great character.

As in almost every episode, they do at least one totally stupid and illogical thing.... in this instance, the moment Stein and Jax are reunited, why not have them go all Firestorm over the Space Pirates? (other than the real world fact, the producers probably exhausted that episodes budget on the Atom's space sequence? lol) They could have easily defeated them. Instead, Rip undertakes a very risky plan, the results in him ruthlessly killing the entire Space Pirate crew by jettisoning them into space. Not very heroic imo.

Next episode is their mid-season break....

 

[Mark Moore]

I keep forgetting to watch this. I haven't seen it since episode 1.

Supergirl, Big Bang Theory. Too many shows.

 

[Nic]

As in almost every episode, they do at least one totally stupid and illogical thing.... in this instance, the moment Stein and Jax are reunited, why not have them go all Firestorm over the Space Pirates? (other than the real world fact, the producers probably exhausted that episodes budget on the Atom's space sequence? lol) They could have easily defeated them.

I imagine they couldn't merge because Firestorm would eat up all of the limited oxygen on the ship, killing everyone on board, including Jax and Stein.

 

[bionicbob]

I imagine they couldn't merge because Firestorm would eat up all of the limited oxygen on the ship, killing everyone on board, including Jax and Stein.

Maybe...lol. Though I am not certain if their powers work that way. Plus you would think a supership from the future would be able to compensate for it....

Though this is the same model of timeship that instead of sealing bulk head doors immediately upon detecting a hull breach it waits until Cold and Sara enter the room and does not warn them to leave....lol

Also, we have seen Cold encase entire human bodies in ice, why does he have such difficulty sealing the hole smaller than a volleyball?

 

[bionicbob]

Wow! So "Night of the Hawks" was directed by the legendary JOE DANTE!!!!!
The Howling! Gremlins! The Burbs! Matinee!!! Small Soldiers!!!

Dante is a great fit for the show, as he knows how to swing from humour to action to horror seamlessly. Though sadly, unless I missed it, he did not seem to bring any of his classic easter egg signatures to the episode --- no Looney Tune references...lol.

It still seems odd to me, a director of such great talent and an amazing resume, has spent most of the last decade directing episodic television. Hollywood is a harsh mistress indeed.

As for the episode itself, again it was a strong character piece. I like how they did not stray away from the less than perfect world of the 1950s, unless you are "straight white man". Savage seemed extra smarmy this time out. I liked the Smallville connection with the alias of "Curtis Knox", plus the Hall H reference. Again, the producers found an excuse for Stein and Jax not to Firestorm...lol. Not certain if the term "ninja" was commonly known in the 1950s?

Legends returns in a few weeks....

 

[bionicbob]

Trailer for the second half of season one...

 

[Zarius]

I've tried watching the first episode of this and I'm 87% compeltly lost on what's going on...I can't stand Arrow, but it seems I have to watch that in order to know anything that's going on in this

 

[bionicbob]

I haven't comment much on Legends, as it is a show that left me feeling perplexed.

I suppose the expectations raised by the original concept trailer and the show we eventually got were too high.

Or perhaps, and more likely, it is the fact one never knows what to expect from the Legends episodes.  With the time travel element, every couple episodes is a completely different show in terms of tone, adventure and even genre.  Which is both a strength and a weakness.   It is by far the most ambitious of the four DC Berlanti shows, and while it never quite hit the heights it was reaching for,  you gotta give the show credit for trying.

The strength of the first season was the dialogue and character interactions.  This is what kept me coming back each week.  But it was also a weakness, as the large cast of 9 leads, meant some characters did not get to shine the way they should have.  I am of course speaking of Hawkgirl.  One the most interesting and complex DC comic book characters rendered to little more than a plot device most the season.  Completely wasted.

The actual over arching plot of season one was also frustrating.  With only one main villain for the full season, that meant each week our heroes essentially had to lose every adventure until the finale.  With a super team this powerful, every week the producers had to come up with some lame reason (though part of the reason is probably the tv budget lol) why some of them didn't use their superpowers.  And it did not help that the producers did not really fully develop Vandal Savage beyond being a moustache twirling villain.

So while an interesting and entertaining first season, it often felt a bit lost and schizo.

With the season two premiere last night, it was clear the producers are aware of the issues from last season and are attempting to make some corrections.

The cast is smaller and more manageable, which should be a great boon to the writers.   The character moments really shone through in this episode.

There was definitely a greater sense of fun and light heartedness to the episode.  Though like most Legends episodes, the plot logic is flimsy and the villain motivations underdeveloped.  My fear, especially with the time travel concept, will the series lose a grounded feeling with its characters?

The producers seem to planning more stand alone style adventures, so more wins for the team which is good.  Though they did tease the beginnings of the main recurring Big Bads --- the LEGION OF DOOM!

And the episode cliffhanger -- the intro the JSA -- is definitely intriguing, even though it is clear they are not using any the classic big gun characters.

So a good second season launch but it still feels a bit like a work in progress.

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEgn7fhelSE[/video]

 

[Gaith]

Making my way through S1 on Netflix, and watched the 1950s eps "Night of the Hawk" and "Left Behind" tonight. And... wow! The series has been mildly okay to enjoyable enough up 'til now, but Joe Dante's ep was fantastic, and its sequel was just as good. From the return of Matt Nable as Rha's (loved Ray's disbelief at being back there) to the Chronos reveal and the legitimately moving two-year exile for Ray and Kendra, not to mention the sight of League Assassins getting mowed down by a laser gun, the show has really started to live up to its promise. We truly do live in amazing geek times, even if I still have no desire to return to the once-great Arrow, and consider the non-Punisher parts of Daredevil wildly overrated.

Falk Hentschel (Hawkman) has been a pretty lousy actor, but it's more or less worked for the character. I was still pleased when he was killed off in the second ep, though I'm sure he'll be back. Franz Drameh (Jefferson Jackson) is even worse, a truly awful performer in his early episodes of both this and The Flash, but I'm slowly starting to warm to him, also, even if I wish the John Diggle Jr. actor had his role. Meanwhile, Wentworth Miller does his one-note schtick very well, and Brandon Routh and Victor Garber are easily the series' co-MVPs.

 

[Gaith]

Season One Final Thoughts

Well, that was weird. After an absolutely epic penultimate episode, with its attack on the Time Lords' HQ, S1 concluded with a bit of a fart, splitting the team into three random time periods and kicking Savage's ass fairly easily and without losses in all three. (And Carter Hall at the least isn't permanently, let alone temporarily, killed again? Whose idea was that?!) I know there are budgetary limitations, but fighting over three asteroids that just sit there isn't at all compelling, and Hunter's reasons for why Laurel couldn't be saved were both boringly nonsensical and insulting to the Arrow crew. (Why couldn't he have simply said that Darkh's use of magic made his kills permanent?) And the JSA tease at the end did nothing for me.

All in all, a perfectly watchable and decent show, that should and could have been even better with some tweaks. That said, I'm content to wait until S2 drops on Netflix sometime next summer rather than keep up with it week-to-week, as I do with Flash and Agents of SHIELD.

S1 Grade: B

 

[bionicbob]

Season two thus far is much improved compared to season one.  In fact, it was probably the most on the bubble for cancellation of the Arrowverse shows.  The CW originally only renewed it for 13 episodes due to it under performing last year and its immense budget.  But good news, CW has ordered 4 more eps (up to 17 now--yay!) and will be moving the show to Tuesdays after the Flash, which is the perfect lead-in show for Legends.

The humour element has been increased to the show's benefit without sacrificing character or heart.... by embracing the core concept that these guys and gals are mostly misfits and screw ups, who really have no business trying to save the timeline, has really worked in the show's favour.

The removal of Rip and placing Sara in charge was a stroke of brilliance and I am loving the new guy Steel, as he brings a real fanboy perspective to the show.  I didn't think it was possible, but he seems to be an even bigger boy scout than Haircut... I mean Ray...LOL

It is still the most plot holed and logic flawed of the four Arrowverse shows, but you just have to shrug it off, leave your brain at the door and go for a fun ride.   The show has a definite "Guardians of the Galazy" vibe, though it lacks the totally awesome music soundtrack...lol

Looking forward to seeing how well our Legends play with others in the INVASION crossover next week....

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZanOprp7ls[/video]

 

[bionicbob]

And so the INVASION concludes....

The strength of this crossover was the character interaction and dialogue of the all the heroes working together.  Lots of fun moments and some real solid emotional beats, such as  Stein and his new timeline daughter.   But the heart of this crossover was Ollie and Barry, and they really brought their "A" game to this event and made it a worthwhile watch.

Not too crazy about Steel's costume.  Love the helmut and body portion, but the sleeveless part looks really bad, it really highlights the strap on should pads....lol.  

The weakness of the crossover was the actual Invasion itself.   The Dominators was sorely underdeveloped, and the threat mostly happened off screen due to tv budgets, thus never truly feeling like an epic global crisis.   (I am already thinking of shows/movies where I could steal footage to increase the threat level lol)  

But in the end, I found myself mostly smiling and laughing and loving the ride.  

Next week the winter finale....

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQkvzzn2n3w[/video]

 

[Nic]

The heart of this crossover was Ollie and Barry, and they really brought their "A" game to this event and made it a worthwhile watch.

The weakness of the crossover was the actual Invasion itself.   The Dominators was sorely underdeveloped, and the threat mostly happened off screen due to tv budgets, thus never truly feeling like an epic global crisis.   (I am already thinking of shows/movies where I could steal footage to increase the threat level lol)

I would LOVE to see edit the entire three-parter into one big, fanservicy extravaganza! While I most of the stuff from Arrow didn't move the plot forward, I still question how much of it you could cut out because it's still really good material (Oliver saying godbye to his parents got me teary eyed, and I seldom cry at media). Honestly, one of the more disappointing things about this crossover is how much of a supporting character Kara felt compared between Barry and Oliver (even Cisco feels like he belongs here more than Kara, which is kinda depressing). Here's some things I would to see in an "Extended Cut:"

         *Flash Section*

• -Start the feature off with a montage centered around the Particle Accelerator Explosion/"The Birth of Heroes/Metas" with the conversation from Arrow's "The Brave and The Bold" to set the theme of the feature ("Maybe metahumans and superpowers were given to us to deal with the crazy...I think people like Barry are the hope for saving people like us..."). This ties in later in the Arrow section when Curtis and Rory start talking about the divine plan, or "lack thereof"
  --If possible, use a montage to briefly introduce the characters of the Arrowverse, setting up things like how Barry and Kara knowing each other, and Barry going back in time to save his mother.
• -Include more footage from Flash's "Flashpoint" episode, treat it like an Arrowverse flashback section. Seeing Barry living his ideal life will make Oliver living HIS ideal life later on feel more organic to the story. Start of with Barry being happy with his parents as well as caging Thawne.
• -When Oliver says he knows how to contact the Legends, use Legend footage of Stein and Jax first discovering Future Barry's message as well as Sara saying "our friends in 2016 need our help." Helps out with the story's pacing.
• -Between the point where Barry and Cisco go looking for Kara and the point where they find her, have an action setpiece of Supergirl doing something awesome, since she doesn't get a lot to do. I suggest the dual Metallo fight, since it shows off Supergirl, Superman, Martian Manhunter, and Alex helping out to save the day. Throws a bone to Supergirl fans, and assures that Kara isn't leaving her Earth unprotected.
• Once Barry starts explaining Flashpoint to everyone, this might be where the bulk of Flashpoint gets to be in Flashback form, or at least showing why Barry decides to fix it (losing his powers/memories, Wally dying). When John realizes he should have a daughter instead of a son, reaction shots of Sara and Ray leading to a flashforward and montage of history chagnges respectively (essentially, Sara realizes that Baby John realizes that the "possible future" of Star City 2046 is far more likely, Ray realizes that New York being nuked, Hourman's death, etc. are the result of Barry's messing with time...which is TRUE because Barry allowed Thawne to become the villain of Legends of Tomorrow).
• Minimize Wally's subplot as much as possible. Little to no mentions of H.R., Wally is not seen again after he gets knocked out by Supergirl.

• 
  *Arrow Section*
• General trims to move the section along while also keeping the heart of the material in.
• Instances of Team Arrow realizing something's wrong will be single frame instances at first (i.e., similar to when Laurel goes from wearing casual wear to wearing a hospital gown in a split second). As the plot goes on, the flashbacks get more vivid (When Ray realizes Felicity isn't his fiance', we see the scene where Ray explains to Felicity why he builds the ATOM suit.) Flashbacks in the episode proper that were only a second long will have the proper scenes from the series instead (Thea will see Moira begging Slade to kill her, we get to see John killing Andy when Oliver says John isn't the Green Arrow, we see Oliver seeing his father telling him to survive.)
• If possible, try and remove Thea's insistence on not leaving the dream world. Her monologue saying metahumans can save the world is great, but remove Oliver saying she wants her to be happy. Instead, he hugs her knowing she's hurting, bur leaving is the right thing to do.
• Change the inspiring words Tommy gives Oliver. The ones used were from "Three Ghosts," where Tommy was a hallucination, and I always thought that was just Oliver trying to make himself feel better, both there and here.
• If possible, find better images of Tommy and Roy Harper to use.
  
  
  *Legends of Tomorow Section*
• As before, making general trims to move the story faster while still keeping the core elements of the story.
• End the feature with a montage of all the heroes with highlights from their series, set to the first them from the 2000s Justice League cartoon.
• And just in general, footage from other movies/TV shows that makes the Dominators feel more dangerous.

 

[MusicEd921]

I'm already doing some preliminary work on this until footage is released on home media.

So far, my idea was not to stress too much about including stuff from previous seasons and whatnot.  When you see the Marvel movies, they don't do any sort of recap about what you missed.  They dive right in and it's usually expected you've seen the previous stuff to know what is going on.

I'm not 100% sure how to open the movie in terms of an introduction, but we start the overall story with Barry encountering the Dominators.  Fast forward to where he talks about recruiting people to help and I figure when he and Cisco travel to Kara's Earth, we see the Thanksgiving dinner scene from Supergirl that ends in an almost portal opening and then closing.  Next scene we can see the ending of Legends where Sara tells Ray and Nate that their friends from 2016 need their help and then we jump back to Supergirl where Barry and Cisco successfully get through and meetup with Kara (which will help explain her comment that she thought that was them before).

I'd say keep the rest of the Flash episode as is off the top of my head.

Arrow's 100th episode could mostly stay and oddly enough I would hack away at the scenes that don't take place inside their mind controlled dream.  All we really get from the additional scenes is that they are in space which we see once they wake up.  

The Legends episode would be mostly left intact as well.

Most of Felicity's lines as well as some of Cisco's were a bit cringe worthy and a lot of Felicity's felt too forced.

I'm really hoping there are some deleted scenes in all of the sets.  Wouldn't it be amazing if they had some special release of just the main 3 episodes from the crossover with additional footage or deleted scenes as a special feature?  Ah, that would save me a lot of money.....

 

[addiesin]

I think the approach is good: assume there are already hypothetical flash and arrow and supergirl and legends movies and then forget about them and make your team up film stand alone. 

I have just caught up on Flash and Supergirl, haven't seen the crossover yet (I have to catch up on Legends and I don't really watch Arrow) but I'm excited for it.

 

[Nic]

So far, my idea was not to stress too much about including stuff from previous seasons and whatnot.  When you see the Marvel movies, they don't do any sort of recap about what you missed.  They dive right in and it's usually expected you've seen the previous stuff to know what is going on.

I think the danger with that is that if you don't at least include a bit of Barry living in Flashpoint, it runs the risk of hurting the Arrow part. It's a great episode of Arrow, but it doesn't move the story of the crossover ahead one bit. Including Flashpoint means you have instances of arguably the main characters of the entire Arrowverse franchise, Barry and Oliver, being offered paradise but acknowledging they have to leave. Otherwise, you might want to experiment with cutting out the Arrow segment entirely.

 

[addiesin]

Flashpoint was/is this season though. He said he's not including material from previous seasons.

 

[MusicEd921]

So far, my idea was not to stress too much about including stuff from previous seasons and whatnot.  When you see the Marvel movies, they don't do any sort of recap about what you missed.  They dive right in and it's usually expected you've seen the previous stuff to know what is going on.

I think the danger with that is that if you don't at least include a bit of Barry living in Flashpoint, it runs the risk of hurting the Arrow part. It's a great episode of Arrow, but it doesn't move the story of the crossover ahead one bit. Including Flashpoint means you have instances of arguably the main characters of the entire Arrowverse franchise, Barry and Oliver, being offered paradise but acknowledging they have to leave. Otherwise, you might want to experiment with cutting out the Arrow segment entirely.

You're right, especially since Flashpoint is also the key to why this is happening.  That is where my intro would come in.  Maybe Barry's voiceover about Flashpoint could be thrown over a montage of what occurred and how things changed when he tried to reset the timeline?

@"addiesin" is right that I meant nothing from previous seasons, but Flashpoint is this season and is the focal point for a lot of the crossover.  

Not to mention the whole ending between Ollie and Barry has them relating to that moment that they got to experience their paradise.  I REALLY wish Kara was included in that conversation too since she had her episode "For the Girl Who Has Everything."  

Supergirl was sorely underused if I had to complain about anything.  Maybe next year she'll get more time as I think the creative team behind this wanted to celebrate the universe that the Arrow and Flash shows built.  Here's hoping next year will include some interaction between J'onn J'onzz and Diggle.....

 

[rnpasinos]

hope that someone edits the 4 crossover episodes into a single episode...