BD Vs HD-DVD

[dark jedi]

you do not pay for the updates for your Bluray player,that is just a stupid ass comment,especially if you have the PS3,all updates for the PS3 and Bluray are right there for the grabbing,and it is FREE.

 

[joebshmoe]

yep i'm gonna check ebay to see if anyone got a wii and is dumping their ps3

 

[Daniel]

where is from information about mandatory updates? link please.....

I don't have time to dig out the info. But some companies have already informed consumers they intend to charge users for receiving the mandatory AACS updates. Without them new discs will have new AACS keys not included in players older then 18 month.

same thing I heard about dvd long time ago......."dvd is too expensive and do not win with vhs"......so you are telling rubbish.......whatever format wins will be as cheap as dvd is.....

We aren't talking about two vastly different quality formats - vhs and dvd, we're talking about two formats where the picture and sound quality is on a par with each other. You strip that away; and you have two products that both claim to be better then the other. They can't even manufacture 50GB BDs correctly yet! Go on name one company, besides Sony, that can manufacture a full 50GB BD?

Furthermore, BD+ and BDJ implementation is still incomplete, so you WILL have to update your player's firmware to get current discs to work on a BD player. There have been no compatibility problems with HD-DVD.

 

[ReverendBeastly]

I don't have time to dig out the info.

Go on name one company, besides Sony, that can manufacture a full 50GB BD?

Why should one of us go do that research when you won't go back and find some proof of one of the main things you're harping on?

 

[dark jedi]

I don't have time to dig out the info.

Go on name one company, besides Sony, that can manufacture a full 50GB BD?

Why should one of us go do that research when you won't go back and find some proof of one of the main things you're harping on?

there is no researching to do,he is drinking Drano,we will NOT get charged for any updates,that is just plain DUMB.

if there are any updates, you can get them from the site,or they will be on the damn disc,just like the Bluray games,it tells you before you play that there is a mandatory update and do you want to install now(from the disc)

Hell my OPPO unpconvert DVD player gets updated and they do not charge anything iether,you just download,burn to CD,place in player,and there you are,updated.

what a friggin joke,being charged for updates,maybe you should just stick with DVD forever.

 

[Daniel]

we will NOT get charged for any updates,that is just plain DUMB.
...
what a friggin joke,being charged for updates,maybe you should just stick with DVD forever.

 

[Daniel]

if there are any updates, you can get them from the site,or they will be on the damn disc,just like the Bluray games,it tells you before you play that there is a mandatory update and do you want to install now(from the disc)

Furthermore EVERY current Bluray player WILL BE OBSOLETE WHEN THE FIRST 2.0 PLAYER COMES OUT. With the (possible) exception of the PS3 it is not possible to upgrade a 1.0 player to a 1.1 or 2.0 player. Here's why:

1.0 specifications:

Player storage capacity: nil
Picture in Picture (secondary video and audio decoders): No (optional)
Internet connection capability: No

The 1.1 profile was recently enlisted. This was supposed to be the final specification, making both PiP and Internet capability mandatory. However, since manufacturers are still facing troubles implementing the current player specs they removed internet capability. So:

1.1 specifications:
Player storage capacity: 256MB
Picture in Picture (secondary video and audio decoders): Mandatory
Internet connection capability: No

2.0 specification:
Player storage capacity: 1GB
Picture in Picture (secondary video and audio decoders): Mandatory
Internet connection capability: Mandatory

HD-DVD specification from the very first player to hit the market:
Storage: 128MB
PiP: Mandatory
Internet connection capability: Mandatory

Further HD-DVD specifications that are better then bluray:
Region Coding: No
DD+: Mandatory
Dolby True-HD: Mandatory
AACS: Optional

Now clearly it's not better if the features aren't used, so chew on this:

1. There are current HD-DVDs on the market with web-enabled content - there are no Bluray Discs with this feature (as there are no 2.0 players).
2. HD-DVDs with PiP content have been available for quite some time - since the BluRay 1.1 players have only just hit the market, there are only a couple of Bluray Discs to use this "new feature".
3. You may purchase any HD-DVD anywhere in the world and it will be compatible with any HD-DVD player anywhere in the world. However many Bluray players are unable to fully utilize all special features (including PiP), and every Bluray Disc player in the world is region-locked.
4. There have been unencrypted discs released at retail for HD-DVD. These are generally budget distributors who are just happy to get their film on the market; Bluray Disc requires every commercial disc to be region-locked.
5. Every HD-DVD in the world can be decrypted, and copied. Furthermore software exists to easily remove things like PUOs or persistent advertising when making the copy. Slysoft AnyDVDHD can do this in the background without the need to make a copy. This is not currently possible with Bluray discs because BDJ is not easy to edit, nor is it properly documented.
6. As a continuation from the last post, there is currently no crack available for BD+. There is currently no way to remove it like AACS.

So I stand by what I said earlier - HD-DVD will loose the format war, that is clear. However, every Bluray player in the world - except possibly the PS3 - will be obsolete the moment a 2.0 player hits the market with internet connectivity.

 

[AvP]

so ill be ok :-D,oh ps3 does connent to the net...even the ps2 did thought you new your stuff ha ha

 

[Daniel]

so ill be ok :-D,oh ps3 does connent to the net...even the ps2 did thought you new your stuff ha ha

Yeah, that'd be great for those HD-DVDs with web-content... oh wait, they're not compatible. Oh well that'd be great for BDs with web-content - oh, there aren't any!

Yeah I know the PS3 has internet capability - that's why I said Sony could most likely update the PS3 to a 2.0 BD player through a firmware update - something no other BD player can do (even the ones that do have ethernet ports for firmware updates).

 

[joebshmoe]

the holes in your logic are ridiculous, but i'm just gonna let it be....

formats are won by the support they receive.

technology is years behind when it is brought to the consumer level.

all your nonsense isn't going to make a difference.

you obviously have a lot of investment in this issue. i'd recommend either creating better arguments or look to a different topic to dwell on.

 

[AvP]

i think this is all false,if it was true what would be the point changing pass keys and your system needs updateding...if your system cant be updated... what would be the point changing them.

 

[voodl]

summary: Blu ray is a piece of shit 'cos there is no PiP, internet connection is not mandatory and only sony can manufacture a full 50GB BD......right?

very disturbing....I think I hang myself....

 

[voodl]

......and besides......

Quote:
same thing I heard about dvd long time ago......."dvd is too expensive and do not win with vhs"......so you are telling rubbish.......whatever format wins will be as cheap as dvd is.....

We aren't talking about two vastly different quality formats - vhs and dvd, we're talking about two formats where the picture and sound quality is on a par with each other.

......no Daniel! we are talking about prices....today large dvd sets (for example Planet Earth or Blade Runner) have very similar prices as blu ray sets (and hd dvd set of course).

 

[Daniel]

^^ Those are older movies, and there is still a price difference.

Here's what happened with DRM on Music:

Consumer: We won't put up with these "copy protected CDs"!
Consumer: We won't tolerate these DRM-crippled MP3 downloads!

Industry: for the large part removes CD copy protection.
Industry: offers DRM-free MP3s for online purchase.

Here's what happened with DVD:

Consumer: Region coding sucks! It's a violation of my rights!
Consumer: CSS Copy Protection sucks! It's a violation of 'fair use'!

Industry: In many countries region-free DVD players are readily offered.
Industry: Tries to dictate global copyright legislation to make cracking copy protection illegal.

HD-DVD: Does not use region coding (good).
HD-DVD: Uses AACS encoding - an equivalent to CSS.
HD-DVD: Includes ICT (BAD).

BluRay: Includes region coding (bad).
BluRay: Mandates AACS encoding - very bad. CSS was optional on DVD - thus this implementation is designed to take more of consumers rights.
BluRay: Uses an 18-month cycle to deliver "new" AACS codes; meaning every BluRay player in the world MUST be updated to the current firmware; and the consumer does not have the choice to use a previous firmware version in order to be compatible with current discs - BAD. As seen above, Plextor plans to charge customers for these mandatory updates (which dark jedi said was DUMB).
BluRay: Uses BD+ (optional) as an additional copy protection layer. This has not been cracked. BAD.
BluRay: Includes ICT (BAD).

When I wrote out all the consumer-rights invading polices of HD-DVD and BluRay Disc I concluded that BluRay seeks to invade upon customer rights more then HD-DVD; and with the exception of ICT - HD-DVD is an even more friendly format then DVD because 1. we can back every disc up right now using decryption software, and 2. They have not implemented region coding.

3. If I was to add this to the list, would be that the hardware specs for HD-DVD were full from the beginning; whereas BluRay started with 1.0, and has gone to 1.1 (as I've mentioned) instantly making every 1.0 player obsolete. This I would also see as evidence HD-DVD is more consumer-friendly; as early adaptors of the format shouldn't have a less powerful player.

you obviously have a lot of investment in this issue. i'd recommend either creating better arguments or look to a different topic to dwell on.

I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is, or I wouldn't have paid for 3 domains and negotiated a hosting account with 50GB allocated bandwidth (more $$ to pay) so I can set up a website in opposition to the DRM camp. In the mean time why not go over to the forums at Slysoft and tell them you think BluRay Disc is better.

Sure BluRay will win the format war, I think at this point that's obvious. I'm just saying I think their product is consumer-raping and takes DRM way too far.

what a friggin joke,being charged for updates,maybe you should just stick with DVD forever.

The way I remember it, I refused to adopt DVD in opposition to their region-coding scheme - until I could get a region-free player. That's when I adopted it. The way I remember it I refused to buy a Wii... until I could get a region-free enabling Modchip. Hmm come to think of it, I buy Liteon DVD drives because I know that ImgBurn can disable its region counter.

Maybe I will stick with DVD forever; because at this point - even if there were region-free BD players which didn't honour ICT, I would still have a hard time reconciling mandatory player updates - even if I had a written guarantee they'd remain free forever.

As for blank media, well we're yet to see how long the recordable discs will last. But my money would be on HD-DVD. While the discs would have a smaller capacity, I'm quite sure they would out-live Bluray's recordable discs. The same as blank CDs lasting much longer then blank DVDs.

 

[voodl]

this is quote from Slysoft forum:

As a computer storage format, BD is, in my opinion, clearly superior (and better developed). But in terms of being the less consumer friendly format, I agree entirely with James (and I've only purchased HD-DVD movies, so far for that reason).

so?.....is it all about? I can live with that....

 

[dark jedi]

Bluray is a piece of shit?
ha ha ha ha that is friggin funny,I wonder why Disney and WB would want there movies on a piece of shit?

Daniel you should just stick with regular dvd's & hd dvd and so should voodl,that is what I would do if I was you guys,those comments and theories are just funny as hell,Bluray does not want or need you guys anyways.

this topic is becoming a joke now,all it is now is a couple of people doing the Bluray bash,but keep it up,it is funny reading,people always hate the winners,so you guys keep bashing and sharing that tall glass of Drano.

 

[Finn]

Actually Dark this is a fairly interesting debate on the 'issues' and 'particulars'.
The company which succeeds may well be Blu-ray, most things point that way at the moment. But that doesn't alter the fact that it may well not be the optimum product for the consumer, merely the optimum sales device for the industry big guns.

I think it's far more interesting at the moment while everyone has a lot to play for. Hell, I know a lot of people who are just biding their time to see a clear winner, OR an affordable dual-technology device, so they can use both.

We are quite happy debating this, and BR Fanboy you may be, all you've added to this thread recently was hate and a steady stream of your fapping over BR.

 

[dark jedi]

hate?

you guys on your high horses crack me up so much.

I am giving no hate at all,just doing some ribbing that is all,you guys keep debating,this has turned into a Bluray bash,has it not?

so continue,I will just read and laugh to myself now.

 

[Heinrich]

don?t stop posting in this thread dj! i just had my popcorn ready...

 

[dark jedi]

don?t stop posting in this thread dj! i just had my popcorn ready...

Thanks Heinrich,I guess I am just like Terrel Owens,getcha popcorn ready!