Alternate cuts of movies you would love to see

[The Danger Zone]

Here's another Disney film with a lost cut, Frozen II, The Darker Material Cut, proven to exist by the into the unknown documentary, and cut trailer footage, any news on how this occurred? Or extra info to add?

Interesting.

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I always hesitiate to ever call stuff "lost cuts" as they're almost never really lost. Most films made in the past 20 years just sit around on hard drives and probably can't be called lost, when they're just on the studio's servers.
A film where it's assembly cut only had one print struck for screening anywhere from the 30s-90s, before the negatives were cut and conformed to a final cut, with film preservation not being what is it today, many of these cuts, scenes, performances are truely lost until something shows up somewhere.
An animated film made in 2019, where it's likely all of its assets are on a Disney PC, can hardly be called lost.

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Let me rephrase: What I mean by lost or alternate cuts, aren't say lost but aren't released to the public, so the Sholmacher cut of Batman Forever (mispelled) isn't released to the general audiences, we know it exist, it isn't "lost" per-say but yeah.

 

[randomuser122445567]

I want to add that we know the leaked Suicide Squad 2016 draft is not only an early draft but NOT the shooting script as David Ayer already confirmed that the shooting script is in chronological order without the flashbacks. Also a lot of dialogue/Scripting was improvised so the Ayer Cut would be less cringe than the script.

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Does anyone know of more films with lost versions or unreleased versions? Isn’t there like a 4Hr cut of The Batman & a directors cut of Superman Rrturns?

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Where can I find this footage?

Is it on a legal release or leaked?

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

I really want someone to make a Homeward Bound extended cut, but it seems like this is TV only footage? How can I get this legally?

 

[Ray Danger]

Since it was just brought up in the Universal Monsters Marathon thread,
I'd LOVE to see the original cut of Frankenstein Meets the Wolf-Man. A producer got a hold of it before release & striped out all of the Monster's dialog & several cool scenes hit the floor.
The shooting script is floating around, but all of the cut footage & audio was destroyed.

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

I sitll cant get over how much I want the lost footage for XMen Dark Phoenix, really intriegued think it could've been a better movie.

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Some infomation on some cuts, rather than just simply name-dropping.

Blade Runner
Most of the cuts of the film have been released in the 2007 5-Disc set, including the Workprint, Theatrical, International, Director's, and Final Cut. But there are two other known cuts that haven't been seen or released since.

The May 1982 San Diego Sneak Preview, which included 2 known differences;
- A full shot of Batty inside the closed VidPhon booth, whereas the final film starts with a close-up of his hand, as well as another wide shot when he steps out, as the final film uses a mid-shot
- An overhead helicoptor shot of Deckard driving through the woods at the start of the happy ending.

And the BR2k2: Definitive Cut, which was never finished. It was to be Ridley Scott's definitive version, and was in production in 2002. Set to be apart of a lavish DVD set, a rough cut was assembled and signed off on, but never made it to release due to legal issues with the film. The project was reignited in 2006, and eventually became the Final Cut, released in 2007.

All info taken from Future Noir: The Making of Blade Runner

The Phantom Menace
Rumours have swirled for years there is a lost 6-hour cut, but there is nothing to ever say that there ever could of been.
First cut ran at 2:06:34 and finished in February 1998, before 2 rounds of additional photography were done. After that, the film was cut a third time on March 13th, and ran 2:17:42. Finally by release in May 1999, the final runtime was 2:13:05, before the DVD added back extended scenes, with it now finally running 2:16:11.
There's never any one particular lost cut, as it was always in flux as material came in and out, as the first cut of the film was shorter than the theatrical cut. Lots of really interesting deleted scenes though. I reccomend reading through T-Bone's SW Universe for more!

The Phantom Menace – T-bone’s Star Wars Universe

All info on runtimes taken from The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005

Iron Man
Additional photography actually ended up adding one of the most iconic scenes in the film.
In the original version of the film, there was no suiting up scene. The big dramatic scene where he suits up in the Mark 3, is not in the film at all. Originally, after seeing the news report on Gulmira, he gets Pepper to organise a party in Dubai, where he slips away during the festivites and heads to fight the Ten RIngs. That whole action scene also didn't have Abu Bakaar (the 2nd in command) as he was shot dead by the leader of the Ten Rings in front of Tony earlier, to make a point. Pepper finds him in the morning in the suit, which is smoking and riddled with bullet holes, he's drinking a whiskey and asks her to get him out of it.
The brief water-boarding scene was also apart of reshoots, and instead had a scene where Yinsen hits and mocks Tony instead. Later Tony is just dragged out of bed and out of the cave.
There's also a far longer third act, where Rhodey crashes a car into Stane's suit, blowing up a bus, and a pro-longed death scene with Stane as he falls into the Arc Reactor.
All of these deleted scenes have been released on different blu-rays and TV cuts.

Most of this is all discussed in the mostly forgotten live commentary by Jon Favreau and Robert Downey Jr, on the 8th September 2008, at the Aero Theatre. There's only one recording of this, and its not great, but it's the only commentary that exists for the film.

Men In Black
There was a bit of flux with the script when it came to the antagonistic force of the film. Originally the climax had a big anamatronic talking bug, with J and K engaging in a philosophical debate with it. During shooting, this was scrapped and rewritten before the climax was shot, so it turned into a big action sequence with a CG bug.
After screening the film for test audiences, there was some confusion on the 3 conflicting alien races fighting over the galaxy. The original plot was two formally feuding species (Baltain and Arquillian) who had finally come to an agreement to trade the galaxy back, with the Edgarbug stepping in to stop the peace happening so that his species can continue to live off the devastation and destruction of the war.
Clearly this was too much for some so they re-edited the film to take out the Baltains out and simply made it that the Edgarbug species wanted control of the galaxy from the Arquillian prince. They did this by redubbing the diner scene so that the two aliens were now speaking some foreign language with new exposition, redubbing the Frank the Pug scene to support it, and adding new graphics to the MIB HQ screen and having off screen dialogue added to shift the narrative.
The workprint that's been floating around for years, has parts of this lost plot, but not all of it. Most of it turned up in a documentary on the DVD, but not 100% complete.

Info taken from said documentary Metamorphosis of 'Men in Black, available on the DVD/Blu-Ray

Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy
The film's main plot focused on a terrorist group, known as the Alarm Clock, that is vague in their goals, but still want to achieve something. The film ended with the group kidnapping Veronica and the News Team assembling to save her.
The rest of the film was all the same, with a woman joining the station, Ron falling in love, him getting firing, etc, but the main crux focused on this terrorist plot. It tested poorly so all of that plot was cut, and additional news reports, and the entire third act was reshot to make it focus on the birth of a baby panda, which alligned moreso with the tone of the film, being that the characters take news reporting too seriously.
The entire subplot was re-edited, along with more deleted scenes, as a quasi-sequel, and released on DVD with the film.
L8wrtr's Alarm Clock Cut tries to recreate what this early cut could of been, and does a really good job.

Info from commentary to Wake Up Ron Burgandy! with Will Ferrell and Aaron Zimmerman

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Does the 2005 film Eragon have alternate cuts?

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Some infomation on some cuts, rather than just simply name-dropping.

Blade Runner
Most of the cuts of the film have been released in the 2007 5-Disc set, including the Workprint, Theatrical, International, Director's, and Final Cut. But there are two other known cuts that haven't been seen or released since.

The May 1982 San Diego Sneak Preview, which included 2 known differences;
- A full shot of Batty inside the closed VidPhon booth, whereas the final film starts with a close-up of his hand, as well as another wide shot when he steps out, as the final film uses a mid-shot
- An overhead helicoptor shot of Deckard driving through the woods at the start of the happy ending.

And the BR2k2: Definitive Cut, which was never finished. It was to be Ridley Scott's definitive version, and was in production in 2002. Set to be apart of a lavish DVD set, a rough cut was assembled and signed off on, but never made it to release due to legal issues with the film. The project was reignited in 2006, and eventually became the Final Cut, released in 2007.

All info taken from Future Noir: The Making of Blade Runner

The Phantom Menace
Rumours have swirled for years there is a lost 6-hour cut, but there is nothing to ever say that there ever could of been.
First cut ran at 2:06:34 and finished in February 1998, before 2 rounds of additional photography were done. After that, the film was cut a third time on March 13th, and ran 2:17:42. Finally by release in May 1999, the final runtime was 2:13:05, before the DVD added back extended scenes, with it now finally running 2:16:11.
There's never any one particular lost cut, as it was always in flux as material came in and out, as the first cut of the film was shorter than the theatrical cut. Lots of really interesting deleted scenes though. I reccomend reading through T-Bone's SW Universe for more!

The Phantom Menace – T-bone’s Star Wars Universe

All info on runtimes taken from The Star Wars Archives 1999-2005

Iron Man
Additional photography actually ended up adding one of the most iconic scenes in the film.
In the original version of the film, there was no suiting up scene. The big dramatic scene where he suits up in the Mark 3, is not in the film at all. Originally, after seeing the news report on Gulmira, he gets Pepper to organise a party in Dubai, where he slips away during the festivites and heads to fight the Ten RIngs. That whole action scene also didn't have Abu Bakaar (the 2nd in command) as he was shot dead by the leader of the Ten Rings in front of Tony earlier, to make a point. Pepper finds him in the morning in the suit, which is smoking and riddled with bullet holes, he's drinking a whiskey and asks her to get him out of it.
The brief water-boarding scene was also apart of reshoots, and instead had a scene where Yinsen hits and mocks Tony instead. Later Tony is just dragged out of bed and out of the cave.
There's also a far longer third act, where Rhodey crashes a car into Stane's suit, blowing up a bus, and a pro-longed death scene with Stane as he falls into the Arc Reactor.
All of these deleted scenes have been released on different blu-rays and TV cuts.

Most of this is all discussed in the mostly forgotten live commentary by Jon Favreau and Robert Downey Jr, on the 8th September 2008, at the Aero Theatre. There's only one recording of this, and its not great, but it's the only commentary that exists for the film.

Men In Black
There was a bit of flux with the script when it came to the antagonistic force of the film. Originally the climax had a big anamatronic talking bug, with J and K engaging in a philosophical debate with it. During shooting, this was scrapped and rewritten before the climax was shot, so it turned into a big action sequence with a CG bug.
After screening the film for test audiences, there was some confusion on the 3 conflicting alien races fighting over the galaxy. The original plot was two formally feuding species (Baltain and Arquillian) who had finally come to an agreement to trade the galaxy back, with the Edgarbug stepping in to stop the peace happening so that his species can continue to live off the devastation and destruction of the war.
Clearly this was too much for some so they re-edited the film to take out the Baltains out and simply made it that the Edgarbug species wanted control of the galaxy from the Arquillian prince. They did this by redubbing the diner scene so that the two aliens were now speaking some foreign language with new exposition, redubbing the Frank the Pug scene to support it, and adding new graphics to the MIB HQ screen and having off screen dialogue added to shift the narrative.
The workprint that's been floating around for years, has parts of this lost plot, but not all of it. Most of it turned up in a documentary on the DVD, but not 100% complete.

Info taken from said documentary Metamorphosis of 'Men in Black, available on the DVD/Blu-Ray

Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgandy
The film's main plot focused on a terrorist group, known as the Alarm Clock, that is vague in their goals, but still want to achieve something. The film ended with the group kidnapping Veronica and the News Team assembling to save her.
The rest of the film was all the same, with a woman joining the station, Ron falling in love, him getting firing, etc, but the main crux focused on this terrorist plot. It tested poorly so all of that plot was cut, and additional news reports, and the entire third act was reshot to make it focus on the birth of a baby panda, which alligned moreso with the tone of the film, being that the characters take news reporting too seriously.
The entire subplot was re-edited, along with more deleted scenes, as a quasi-sequel, and released on DVD with the film.
L8wrtr's Alarm Clock Cut tries to recreate what this early cut could of been, and does a really good job.

Info from commentary to Wake Up Ron Burgandy! with Will Ferrell and Aaron Zimmerman

Can you link the feature noir on blade runner and what was the legal issue with the definitive cut?

 

[lastjedi]

i would like to see someone remake the opening of the movie mad max 2 the road warrior, it uses old ww2 footage, and i think it should use more recent footage to show how the world ended.i might get around to remaking the opening myself.but i thought i'd throw this out as a suggestion

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

i would like to see someone remake the opening of the movie mad max 2 the road warrior, it uses old ww2 footage, and i think it should use more recent footage to show how the world ended.i might get around to remaking the opening myself.but i thought i'd throw this out as a suggestion

Wrong sorta thread for what you're talking about. This is for discussion of alternate cuts as created during production of the films, and not fanedit-wish-lists.

Can you link the feature noir on blade runner and what was the legal issue with the definitive cut?

Here's the offical statement on what it says in the book.

And here you can hear the Final Cut team talk about the Definitive Set plans falling through.

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Doesen't the Fugitive 1993 Harrison Ford film have a 3hr cut? First mentioned here:

in the editing section.

 

[Prism_Skywalker]

Oh & SW Episode IX might have a extended cut along with The Marvels ? along with the numerous edits of Aquaman 2

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Oh & SW Episode IX might have a extended cut along with The Marvels ? along with the numerous edits of Aquaman 2

Every film will absolutely have a first assembly that is longer than the final cut, I guarantee you that.

Part of the filmmaking process is starting with a cut that contains everything that you shot, and then trimming it down from there, maybe reshooting or redubbing parts, and condensing until you have the final cut. Along the way there will be multiple edits for both internal and test audiences. There is "extended cuts" for literally every film ever made if you want to keep track. I think the joy of this thread is talking a little more in depth rather than just naming films.

Doesen't the Fugitive 1993 Harrison Ford film have a 3hr cut? First mentioned here: in the editing section.

I can't find any source for any mention anywhere else on the internet for a 3 hour cut of the film, so I'll put it in the same bin as the 6-hour Phantom Menace cut.

Since it was just brought up in the Universal Monsters Marathon thread,
I'd LOVE to see the original cut of Frankenstein Meets the Wolf-Man. A producer got a hold of it before release & striped out all of the Monster's dialog & several cool scenes hit the floor.
The shooting script is floating around, but all of the cut footage & audio was destroyed.

Oh man I remember hearing about that back in the day. When I was 12, I watched all of James Rolfe's Monster Madness videos, so I got hooked on a bunch of stuff. Godzilla and the Universal monster movies. I remember seeing the Monster's mouth move during the film a whole lot, and that was because they just muted his dialogue. A real shame that we can't hear it anymore, but that was the mindset up until the 70s or 80s, which was to just destroy unused negatives.

 

[greenturnedblue]

Oh & SW Episode IX might have a extended cut along with The Marvels ? along with the numerous edits of Aquaman 2

Supposedly the last cut JJ Abrams approved of was the infamous late November 2:37 cut. After that Disney whittled it down to the final runtime of 2:22. Supposedly.

 

[Wraith]

Every film will absolutely have a first assembly that is longer than the final cut, I guarantee you that.

That I can absolutely agree and know to be the case.
Even movies that are tightly storyboarded with temp animatic vfx, which are close to their final form, will go through that evolution.

The question really is what to cut if even after a thorough pass, you still have a 3 hour plus movie and are aiming for 2 hours. I have seen the 5 hr Apocalypse Now (vhs ), and it is basically the same film…just everything is very loose and drawn out. The 3hr Superman The Movie is similarly loose…

Back to the subject.
I’d like to see the 2001: A Space Odyssey origins 70mm print again… like Close Encounters, I saw that with my dad when it opened…several times. When we took my mum to see at a local theatre, the 35mm prints were 20 mins shorter…those trims exist in both the KUBRICK and WB archives… if they do surface you can be sure they will be downgraded to be B&W and faux damaged to prevent bootlegs….(a common practice that downgrading)….Little Shop of Horrors being a case in point…

 

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Supposedly the last cut JJ Abrams approved of was the infamous late November 2:37 cut. After that Disney whittled it down to the final runtime of 2:22. Supposedly.

Here's the Reddit post where most of the troubled post-production rumours came from.

Rough runtime timeline:

• JJ’s original early November cut was 3 hours 2 minutes long.
• The cut JJ eventually and hesitantly agreed to in early December was 2:37 minutes long.
• The cut they released looked “chopped and taped back together with weak scotch tape” (JJ's words) [final cut is 2:22]

That I can absolutely agree and know to be the case.
Even movies that are tightly storyboarded with temp animatic vfx, which are close to their final form, will go through that evolution.

The question really is what to cut if even after a thorough pass, you still have a 3 hour plus movie and are aiming for 2 hours. I have seen the 5 hr Apocalypse Now (vhs ), and it is basically the same film…just everything is very loose and drawn out. The 3hr Superman The Movie is similarly loose…

I've watched and compared a whole lot of workprints, and I can tell you that there's so much fat in early cuts that gets sliced out. Most stuff that's cut is just cutting heads and tails of shots and scenes. Not usually pivital stuff that gets cut.

Scream 3, Ghostbusters, Scary Movie, Austin Powers, One Hour Photo, Fight Club, American Psycho. I've done frame by frame comparisons and I can say that most of the runtime of these early cuts are pretty much just loose and drawn out fatty scenes and not so much gold that's left on the cutting room floor. Especially Scream 3, that 2:28 assembly runtime is so loose vs the theatrical 1:56.