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ALIEN COVENANT
- Thread starter ImperialFighter
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skyled
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I was really hoping that he'd get around to making the Forever War finally, but it seems like somebody else will make it. It's being written by the co-writer of Prometheus (ut-oh) and starring Channing Tatum (oh dear) as a physicist drafted into being a space marine.
Just another project Scott says he'll do but never gets around to doing.
Just another project Scott says he'll do but never gets around to doing.
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The space suit prop in this video looks incredible and a real interesting interview with Janty Yates (Scott's longtime costume designer). Warning, there are a couple of minor spoiler-ish shots in there.
Canon Editor
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And again, plans have changed.
Apparently, Alien: Awakening was the title for Neill Blomkamp’s (unfortunately) likely never to be shot film, while the sequel to Covenant won’t take place between Prometheus and the new entry, rather after “Covenant”.
EDIT:
From most reviews (by the way, the first reviews around the globe are mostly positive), it appears the characters would need some more screen time. It would be nice to have "The Last Supper" prologue reinserted in the film, IF it is in fact nowhere to be seen.
Apparently, Alien: Awakening was the title for Neill Blomkamp’s (unfortunately) likely never to be shot film, while the sequel to Covenant won’t take place between Prometheus and the new entry, rather after “Covenant”.
EDIT:
From most reviews (by the way, the first reviews around the globe are mostly positive), it appears the characters would need some more screen time. It would be nice to have "The Last Supper" prologue reinserted in the film, IF it is in fact nowhere to be seen.
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Just come back from the movie.
Quick spoiler free review for now:
It's good, not great.
It's a sequel of Prometheus mixed with the first Alien but more action oriented at times.
It's a great looking movie, obviously. My "complain" on that matter is the totaly CG Xeno from start to finish.
Maybe in the bonus from the bluray I will learn that some shots were not CG, but they all look CG to me and I can't really be afraid of a cartoon you know. Even if well done and well shot.
It explains certain things we knew from Alien 79' but not everything, yet. Although the end makes you think about what could happen next.
It was satisfying to me.
Another little complain I have is that in the middle of the movie you think the plot leads to something huge... and... yeah... the plot gives you some interesting back story... but in the end it's still the crew being killed one by one.
So I should be pleased because it's more "alien" and less Prometheus, but there really is a moment I thought the movie would turn into something else, somthing huge, and nope.
Fassbender is great, in many ways he IS the movie. More that any other crew members (all good cast, but Fassbender is head above everyone) and even more than the Xenomorph itself.
The plot contradicts a bit something we see in Cameron's Aliens.
Yet, very satisfying movie anyway, it does its job very well.
Quick spoiler free review for now:
It's good, not great.
It's a sequel of Prometheus mixed with the first Alien but more action oriented at times.
It's a great looking movie, obviously. My "complain" on that matter is the totaly CG Xeno from start to finish.
Maybe in the bonus from the bluray I will learn that some shots were not CG, but they all look CG to me and I can't really be afraid of a cartoon you know. Even if well done and well shot.
It explains certain things we knew from Alien 79' but not everything, yet. Although the end makes you think about what could happen next.
It was satisfying to me.
Another little complain I have is that in the middle of the movie you think the plot leads to something huge... and... yeah... the plot gives you some interesting back story... but in the end it's still the crew being killed one by one.
So I should be pleased because it's more "alien" and less Prometheus, but there really is a moment I thought the movie would turn into something else, somthing huge, and nope.
Fassbender is great, in many ways he IS the movie. More that any other crew members (all good cast, but Fassbender is head above everyone) and even more than the Xenomorph itself.
The plot contradicts a bit something we see in Cameron's Aliens.
Yet, very satisfying movie anyway, it does its job very well.
addiesin
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Vultural said:
Rumor has it that he wanted to work with Cameron on a course-correction film after Alien Resurrection. The two of them and Weaver were all on board, then the studio pulled the plug and green-lit Alien vs Predator instead.
Given that, I'd say his opinion ranges somewhere between respectfully neutral and overly impressed. That's a wide range, but it cancels out the "dislike" option. I doubt Scott would have wanted to commit to working with another big name/creative force like Cameron was at the time, without at least respecting the guy and appreciating that he wasn't the one who ran the franchise into the ground.
Scott always seemed to me to be a "nothing sacred, my way or the highway" kind of director, which served him well in his youth.
(Incoming side note/ rant about Prometheus)
Ironically I think it's his biggest detriment now, as I think he made two big mistakes doing Prometheus. The first script was better, but he brought in Lindelof and added a bunch of unanswered questions in the rewrite. Then after his brother died, he tried to change the meaning of the movie in post, ultimately cutting out necessary scenes, and with them, the film's few answers and only payoff.
(Rant over.)
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I feel like now's a great time to ask, what are people's favorite Prometheus edits? Only one I've seen is Severian's and I remember quite liking it (though this was some time ago).
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I'm gonna need time to put into words how bad this film is. 74% on RT! 74%? 74! 74?
Well done John Logan, you've managed to write not only the worst Star Trek film but the worst in this franchise too. I'm off to watch 'Alien: Resurrection' to remind me how good an Alien film can be
. 74?
Well done John Logan, you've managed to write not only the worst Star Trek film but the worst in this franchise too. I'm off to watch 'Alien: Resurrection' to remind me how good an Alien film can be
. 74?
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When you do manage to find the words, TM2YC, I'll read them with interest. While I'm dissatisfied with a fair amount of Covenant, I enjoyed watching it in the theater more than Prometheus. I like strong opinions, and saying that this is the worst film in the series is fairly strong, given that it has some stiff competition.
While I'm dissatisfied with a fair amount of Covenant, I enjoyed watching it in the theater more than Prometheus. I like strong opinions, and saying that this is the worst film in the series is fairly strong, given that it has some stiff competition.
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Side note:
One can like or not the various Alien movies for different reasons but to me THE main problem with all Alien movies except the first is that they do not make you scared anymore.
I strongly believe that it is still possible to make a movie that could scare the audience even if we all know the Xenomoph for almost 40 years now.
Scary movies about ghosts or evil dolls are still made today and some of them are scary.
It just looks like all directors making Alien movies are not even trying to really scare the audience anymore.
They are playing with the style, with the story elements, etc, you obviously get some jump scares here and there, but there is a lack of real growing tension.
David Finsher tried to bring that tension back in Alien3 but in the end it was also more a stylish movie than a scary movie.
One can like or not the various Alien movies for different reasons but to me THE main problem with all Alien movies except the first is that they do not make you scared anymore.
I strongly believe that it is still possible to make a movie that could scare the audience even if we all know the Xenomoph for almost 40 years now.
Scary movies about ghosts or evil dolls are still made today and some of them are scary.
It just looks like all directors making Alien movies are not even trying to really scare the audience anymore.
They are playing with the style, with the story elements, etc, you obviously get some jump scares here and there, but there is a lack of real growing tension.
David Finsher tried to bring that tension back in Alien3 but in the end it was also more a stylish movie than a scary movie.
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Captain Khajiit said:When you do manage to find the words, TM2YC, I'll read them with interest.
I don't think I have the patience to put my thoughts into a coherent form, so in no particular logical order...
Paper thin, non-existent, or badly defined characters that we don't care about (I'm not including David, who was a character excellently established in the last film)...
- The Ripley clone character 'Daniels' (who is essentially the main "hero") is a walking shadow of nothingness. Remember that scene in Alien, before the creature is even seen, where Ripley defies the order of Dallas to protect the ship's quarantine. Even though she knows Kane's life is in danger. She's smart, she's strong and doesn't let fear or emotion cloud her judgment. We thought in that moment... oh, this is who she is. I couldn't tell you one damn thing about Daniels' character. Before anybody says "Hey but there is that one similar scene where Daniels objects to landing on the new planet". No, because her position in that argument is no more valid than the opposing position. If the new planet had turned out to be Paradise, she would have been wrong. Ripley was always right to not allow Kane back onto the ship, alien, or no alien. Beside, what does Daniels position in that argument tell us about who she is? She doesn't effect the plot in anyway, everything happens to her. Her friendship with Walter is sketched about as thinly as it possibly could be, which is amazing considering the last act hinges it on massively.
- Oram's character is "I am religious person" and he even says it out loud to the camera as soon as he wakes up, so we get the subtle hint. Except being religious isn't a character and nothing is done with it anyway. Early on he is also setup as an ineffectual commander because he says he is, out-loud to the camera and then nothing is done with that either. Is there a scene where his bad leadership, or his religious faith, positively, or negatively effect the plot? Does he land on the new planet because of his faith, or because of poor leadership? No, it was a perfectly logical decision in a bad situation. If anything, his actions show him to be a determined leader which is the opposite of the character as written in his dialogue.
- Tennessee the pilot is the closest thing to a real character. He has a fun personality for a start ("Personality goes a long way" - Pulp Fiction quote). He also makes decisions that effect the plot. e.g. taking the Covenant down to try and rescue the wife he loves and the rest of the crew. He considers the risks and then acts. When he learns his wife is dead, he is devastated but then pulls himself together and gets on with things for the good of the crew. I felt like I knew who this guy was and therefore didn't want him to die.
A few other random irritations...
- What could take me out of this funeral scene about a character I know nothing about more...? I know, an advert for Jack Daniels. In 'Alien: Resurrection' (the previous holder of the 'worst Alien movie' award) it had that scene where a cube of whiskey is liquidised by a laser. It was silly as sh*t but at least the makers were trying, not just sticking in a product placement. Then we cut to Oram being angry that they are having a 5-minute funeral. What human acts like that?!
- The magical "ahhhhh who gives a f*ck, it's only a dumb space movie. I cared about believability in the first movie but now, whatever" aliens. The first lot go from a sentient mist, to an almost full-grown beasty in 5-minutes. Later the facehugged 'David' alien is born fully formed in 5-minutes and is then fullgrown 5-minutes after that. The lackluster CGI (replacing the brilliant practical FX of previous entires), shaky-cam and choppy "action" editing did them no favours what so ever. Does making the aliens move so fast that we can't see them, make them scarier? No, because we can't see them!
- It was very quick but there was an unfinished CGI shot toward the end. I'd need to double check but I'm pretty sure.
- The constant (unearned) references to the spooky Alien musical theme really started to grate. It felt like a videogame score that's only goal is "Hey remember how you felt when you watched that movie you actually liked?".
- The pointless and stupid reference to the famous scene of Ripley against the forest TV screen was an eye roller.
- I liked Prometheus more than most because it had a sense of wonder and exploration. It asked questions about who we are, where we are from and also what the origins of the Space-Jockey species was. Despite all it's other flaws, that feeling of being shown something unknown propelled it along rather well. In Covenant we are just watching people discovering something we knew from the last movie. The big themes that Prometheus struggled with are not central to this movie. David has a god complex for sure but that's one guy who turns up late into the film. Yet we still have to endure a ponderous opening scene about the nature of existence before the film can begin. That kind of scene would have been a fine opening to Prometheus (and maybe some faneditors will make that happen) but not here.
- The whole last act of the movie hinged on not knowing a plot twist that the movie was convinced to be totally genius and brilliant. But was in fact blatantly obvious. Hint movie: When you cutaway just before showing a character is killed, that is telling the audience they are not really dead. When that character has stated out loud, that he wants to kill mankind and create his own race of aliens and there is a colony ship in orbit full of human hosts and frozen embryos... I think we know where the film is going. So we just have to sit there trying not to check our watches while the inevitable and tension free finale plays out. We've all seen Data/Lore in ST:TNG and know how this works. Oh my god, Walter is really David! zzzzzzzzzzzz
'Alien: Resurrection' was bad but I know I felt something when those characters died because they were characters (written by Joss Whedon). Wrong director, right script? Covenant = Right Director, no script. Ridley Scott should not be allowed to approve/commission his own scripts anymore. When he's directing somebody else's work like his last film 'The Martian', then great, green light it. I don't even think 'Covenant' can be fanedited right now into a good movie but as always, I hope somebody can prove me wrong. Maybe a David focused short?
(By the way, the surface stuff was all fine. It looked fine, good design, good acting etc).
Bet you wished you hadn't asked.
- The Ripley clone character 'Daniels' (who is essentially the main "hero") is a walking shadow of nothingness. Remember that scene in Alien, before the creature is even seen, where Ripley defies the order of Dallas to protect the ship's quarantine. Even though she knows Kane's life is in danger. She's smart, she's strong and doesn't let fear or emotion cloud her judgment. We thought in that moment... oh, this is who she is. I couldn't tell you one damn thing about Daniels' character. Before anybody says "Hey but there is that one similar scene where Daniels objects to landing on the new planet". No, because her position in that argument is no more valid than the opposing position. If the new planet had turned out to be Paradise, she would have been wrong. Ripley was always right to not allow Kane back onto the ship, alien, or no alien. Beside, what does Daniels position in that argument tell us about who she is? She doesn't effect the plot in anyway, everything happens to her. Her friendship with Walter is sketched about as thinly as it possibly could be, which is amazing considering the last act hinges it on massively.
- Oram's character is "I am religious person" and he even says it out loud to the camera as soon as he wakes up, so we get the subtle hint. Except being religious isn't a character and nothing is done with it anyway. Early on he is also setup as an ineffectual commander because he says he is, out-loud to the camera and then nothing is done with that either. Is there a scene where his bad leadership, or his religious faith, positively, or negatively effect the plot? Does he land on the new planet because of his faith, or because of poor leadership? No, it was a perfectly logical decision in a bad situation. If anything, his actions show him to be a determined leader which is the opposite of the character as written in his dialogue.
- Tennessee the pilot is the closest thing to a real character. He has a fun personality for a start ("Personality goes a long way" - Pulp Fiction quote). He also makes decisions that effect the plot. e.g. taking the Covenant down to try and rescue the wife he loves and the rest of the crew. He considers the risks and then acts. When he learns his wife is dead, he is devastated but then pulls himself together and gets on with things for the good of the crew. I felt like I knew who this guy was and therefore didn't want him to die.
A few other random irritations...
- What could take me out of this funeral scene about a character I know nothing about more...? I know, an advert for Jack Daniels. In 'Alien: Resurrection' (the previous holder of the 'worst Alien movie' award) it had that scene where a cube of whiskey is liquidised by a laser. It was silly as sh*t but at least the makers were trying, not just sticking in a product placement. Then we cut to Oram being angry that they are having a 5-minute funeral. What human acts like that?!
- The magical "ahhhhh who gives a f*ck, it's only a dumb space movie. I cared about believability in the first movie but now, whatever" aliens. The first lot go from a sentient mist, to an almost full-grown beasty in 5-minutes. Later the facehugged 'David' alien is born fully formed in 5-minutes and is then fullgrown 5-minutes after that. The lackluster CGI (replacing the brilliant practical FX of previous entires), shaky-cam and choppy "action" editing did them no favours what so ever. Does making the aliens move so fast that we can't see them, make them scarier? No, because we can't see them!
- It was very quick but there was an unfinished CGI shot toward the end. I'd need to double check but I'm pretty sure.
- The constant (unearned) references to the spooky Alien musical theme really started to grate. It felt like a videogame score that's only goal is "Hey remember how you felt when you watched that movie you actually liked?".
- The pointless and stupid reference to the famous scene of Ripley against the forest TV screen was an eye roller.
- I liked Prometheus more than most because it had a sense of wonder and exploration. It asked questions about who we are, where we are from and also what the origins of the Space-Jockey species was. Despite all it's other flaws, that feeling of being shown something unknown propelled it along rather well. In Covenant we are just watching people discovering something we knew from the last movie. The big themes that Prometheus struggled with are not central to this movie. David has a god complex for sure but that's one guy who turns up late into the film. Yet we still have to endure a ponderous opening scene about the nature of existence before the film can begin. That kind of scene would have been a fine opening to Prometheus (and maybe some faneditors will make that happen) but not here.
- The whole last act of the movie hinged on not knowing a plot twist that the movie was convinced to be totally genius and brilliant. But was in fact blatantly obvious. Hint movie: When you cutaway just before showing a character is killed, that is telling the audience they are not really dead. When that character has stated out loud, that he wants to kill mankind and create his own race of aliens and there is a colony ship in orbit full of human hosts and frozen embryos... I think we know where the film is going. So we just have to sit there trying not to check our watches while the inevitable and tension free finale plays out. We've all seen Data/Lore in ST:TNG and know how this works. Oh my god, Walter is really David! zzzzzzzzzzzz
'Alien: Resurrection' was bad but I know I felt something when those characters died because they were characters (written by Joss Whedon). Wrong director, right script? Covenant = Right Director, no script. Ridley Scott should not be allowed to approve/commission his own scripts anymore. When he's directing somebody else's work like his last film 'The Martian', then great, green light it. I don't even think 'Covenant' can be fanedited right now into a good movie but as always, I hope somebody can prove me wrong. Maybe a David focused short?
(By the way, the surface stuff was all fine. It looked fine, good design, good acting etc).
Bet you wished you hadn't asked.
There are probably other issues, but that's enough to be going on with.
Edit: I noticed that the Good Doctor Kermode had a lot of the same problems with Covenant as me, though not quite as angry/disapointed...
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still haven't seen this one, but the moment ridley scott announced next six alien movies I knew quality went thru the window.
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Plissken1138 said:
Quote from Wikipedia "The screenplay for the third prequel film was written during production of Alien: Covenant". Maybe they should have concentrated on writing 'Alien: Covenant', while they were filming 'Alien: Covenant'?
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TM2YC said:
Nope! I now see why you liked Prometheus and Resurrection better.
You're spot on in what you wrote about the aliens, but I've long given up expecting consistency/plausibility on that front. The way the ending played out was by far the biggest problem that I had with the film, not just because it was predictable but also because I thought that when Daniels was treating David's injuries she had twigged what had happened and that therefore the film would end with some sort of showdown between the two of them, which would have been less predicable.
I agree with what you wrote about the lack of character development, but that doesn't bug me very much (and is a partly a consequence of Fassbender's stealing the show). The cliches in the plot (such as the storm's impeding communications, having to land some distance away from the source of the transmission, and the blow-it-out the-airlock stunt) bothered me more, as did the fact that potentially interesting points (such as the details of David's research) were underdeveloped. But I only really like the first film, so...
I agree with what you wrote about the lack of character development, but that doesn't bug me very much (and is a partly a consequence of Fassbender's stealing the show). The cliches in the plot (such as the storm's impeding communications, having to land some distance away from the source of the transmission, and the blow-it-out the-airlock stunt) bothered me more, as did the fact that potentially interesting points (such as the details of David's research) were underdeveloped. But I only really like the first film, so...
KingoftheGundam79
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I enjoyed Covenant, but I’ll admit that the characters are underdeveloped and downright moronic (although I think it’s slightly more forgivable than Prometheus by virtue of the fact that they weren’t supposed to be here) and I think David and Walter get too much screentime at the expense of the other characters.
The whole movie feels like Alien 1 and 2 in the style of Prometheus, which I don’t think was a good thing. It's David manipulating everyone and leaving a single woman alive again, with some Alien lore explained. I did like the design of the white Xenomorphs though, I think they’re actually creepier than the regular incarnation (if only because they look like an incomplete inbetween between a human and Xenomorph). The origin aspect though is extremely unsatisfying and dumb, and might cheapen the other movies.
There are one or two creepy moments, but it is never actually scary. There were even a few moments where you could play the Benny Hill theme over them due to the sheer idiocy of them (or a laugh track and cartoon sound effects like my friend suggested to me).
The whole movie feels like Alien 1 and 2 in the style of Prometheus, which I don’t think was a good thing. It's David manipulating everyone and leaving a single woman alive again, with some Alien lore explained. I did like the design of the white Xenomorphs though, I think they’re actually creepier than the regular incarnation (if only because they look like an incomplete inbetween between a human and Xenomorph). The origin aspect though is extremely unsatisfying and dumb, and might cheapen the other movies.
There are one or two creepy moments, but it is never actually scary. There were even a few moments where you could play the Benny Hill theme over them due to the sheer idiocy of them (or a laugh track and cartoon sound effects like my friend suggested to me).
matrixgrindhouse
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Loved Prometheus, loved Covenant. Both are first-rate popcorn flicks, IMO.
I never wanted any explanation/backstory for the xenos, so for me, the thematic incoherence and arbitrary plotting of these two movies is a weird kind of virtue that amplifies the cosmic horror and delicious, crunchy nihilism. If things made sense, and the characters behaved prudently, and the Big Questions were answered, I think I'd be bored and irritated. Instead, we get great actors, beautiful cinematography, great sets, and righteous kills. Indeed, I like to think Sir Ridley is secretly trolling us for wanting more franchise product.
Prometheus: B+
Alien: Covenant: A-
I agree with all the following criticisms, but hey, I can't defend a Taco Bell double-decker taco on fine cuisine grounds, either. Doesn't mean it ain't tasty as hell.
I never wanted any explanation/backstory for the xenos, so for me, the thematic incoherence and arbitrary plotting of these two movies is a weird kind of virtue that amplifies the cosmic horror and delicious, crunchy nihilism. If things made sense, and the characters behaved prudently, and the Big Questions were answered, I think I'd be bored and irritated. Instead, we get great actors, beautiful cinematography, great sets, and righteous kills. Indeed, I like to think Sir Ridley is secretly trolling us for wanting more franchise product.
Prometheus: B+
Alien: Covenant: A-
I agree with all the following criticisms, but hey, I can't defend a Taco Bell double-decker taco on fine cuisine grounds, either. Doesn't mean it ain't tasty as hell.
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Anthony Lane's review of the movie references Swiss Symbolist artist Arnold Böcklin's Isle of the Dead paintings as an inspiration for the ruined city:
These paintings, according to this neat weird sci-fi blog post, inspired a Rachmaninov "Symphonic poem", which, at 18:00, seems to foretell the Fellowship of the Ring theme:
Alien: Covenant may be a glorified slasher flick, but hey, at least I Learned Something Today.
(And now I'm irritated there doesn't seem to be any indication that somewhere, some rich prick has sculpted/converted an actual small island into a one-person/family graveyard based on the paintings' look and scale. How freaking badass would that be?)
These paintings, according to this neat weird sci-fi blog post, inspired a Rachmaninov "Symphonic poem", which, at 18:00, seems to foretell the Fellowship of the Ring theme:
Alien: Covenant may be a glorified slasher flick, but hey, at least I Learned Something Today.
(And now I'm irritated there doesn't seem to be any indication that somewhere, some rich prick has sculpted/converted an actual small island into a one-person/family graveyard based on the paintings' look and scale. How freaking badass would that be?)