Superman Reimagined...

I just love Superman 1 with Christopher Reeve, and I like the sequel, but I always thought it could/should have been a single movie. With this edit I try to do that, aiming for a length of 3 hours.

I use the special edition of Superman 1 and the Lester- and Donner-cut of Superman 2, as I think both versions have their advantages and disadvantages. The changes to the story in order to make it a single movie:


The edit will be in HD and with 5.1-sound.

NewSpock said:

1. What frees the trio from the phantom-zone is Superman's attempt to save Lois life by turning back time. This creates shockwaves in the spacetime that breaks up the phantom zone's barrier.

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How are you going to show this? Some FX shots or something, or is there a clever way to rework the footage?

TM2YC said:

How are you going to show this? Some FX shots or something, or is there a clever way to rework the footage?

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I've seen others attempt that before. Pretty easy workaround

Whenever possible I will use the Lester-footage, of course minus the over-the-top-comedy. Only where Donner-footage is better regarding narrative I'll use that. The reason is that the Lester cut has the better bluray picture.

To bridge the Lester shock waves and Donner's Superman turning the world back, you could easily add a few basic waves going off towards the side of the shot of the earth to show its Superman's actions that caused it:
(e.g - Supes turns back time > earth spinning > shockwaves emitted > Lester shot of shockwaves reaching the phantom zone).
I think it would convey the concept in a better way than to just switch between the Lester and Donner shots for the sequence.

Since you're getting rid of the moon sequence the villains' realisation of their new found powers is also removed. Will that affect your cut in any way or do you really think its just fat that needs trimming?

Fun idea for an edit, looking forward to your work!

MWRK said:

To bridge the Lester shock waves and Donner's Superman turning the world back, you could easily add a few basic waves going off towards the side of the shot of the earth to show its Superman's actions that caused it:
(e.g - Supes turns back time > earth spinning > shockwaves emitted > Lester shot of shockwaves reaching the phantom zone).
I think it would convey the concept in a better way than to just switch between the Lester and Donner shots for the sequence.

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Agreed, I did that, I copied some of the shockwaves from the h-bomb-explosion and fitted them around the earth spinning.

The kryptonite-story element seems unconvincing to me as a plotdevice:

1. How would Luthor deduct that some meteorite's radioactivity would be harmful to Superman? This is far too farfetched for my taste.
2. Why would Luthor decide the hometown of Miss Teschmacher's mother should be the second target? That's just poor thinking by him.
3. When he has pinned down Superman with the kryptonite, why would he need the "double-jeapordy", ie. the second nuke. Ok this one could be explained as a mean to cover all bases in case the kryptonite doesn't work or if anything else happens differently and Superman frees himself from it.
4. If Kryptonite exists and is provably harmful to Superman (and then likewise to Zod and co), wouldn't Luthor then get another bit of Kryptonite to use it again?

So I'm thinking about removing the Kryptonite-element and relying only on the idea of using two nukes, one against a city, so that Superman would have to go to save the city, and therefore not able to prevent the nuke going off in the san andreas fault.

good idea!

First of all,
I like your ideas very much, can't wait to hear more about it.

The idea that Superman intentionally revealed his secret identity to Lois is spot on! I always had the impression that he slipped on the pink bear on purpose and puts his hand in the flames to get caught by Lois (he kinda admits to that too).

I respectfully disagree with your opinion about Lex's "Double Jeopardy" plot.

Luthor didn't target Hackensack NJ (Ms. Teschmachers mother's hometown) on purpose and he never intended to use two misiles, but he had to when Otis messed up the coordinates of the first one (sending it accidantly to Hackensack, NJ instead of the San Andreas Fault).

But Luthor was too proud or too vain to admit this mistake to Superman, so he pretended it was his plan all along to use two rockets.

He didn't share his knowledge to where the first misile was headed with Ms, Teschmacher, because he didn't want to lose her support. He only did so when it was already on its way.

But I agree with your opinion about the kryptonite it is quite far fetched.

But I would cut the makers of the movie some slack on that one, because kryptonite is such an integral part of the Superman mythology and an almost invincible hero like Superman needs to overcome a real threat/obstacle in order to stay interesting.

Keep it up.

Regards


Flatscan78

The way I tried to handle the Kryptonite plot in my edit was that I took out Otis' blunder and made it that while Lex's ultimate plan was having the one nuke hit California, the other was being sent across the country anyway because, well, more real estate. Also, I also looked at it as Lex was no way 100% sure Kryptonite would work, so instead he tried to make it a complete no win situation for Superman. If the Kryptonite worked, watch the world burn and if it didn't work good luck trying to get to both rockets in time.

I'm interested to see how your edit plays out.

flatscan78 said:

I respectfully disagree with your opinion about Lex's "Double Jeopardy" plot.

Luthor didn't target Hackensack NJ (Ms. Teschmachers mother's hometown) on purpose and he never intended to use two misiles, but he had to when Otis messed up the coordinates of the first one (sending it accidantly to Hackensack, NJ instead of the San Andreas Fault).

But Luthor was too proud or too vain to admit this mistake to Superman, so he pretended it was his plan all along to use two rockets.

He didn't share his knowledge to where the first misile was headed with Ms, Teschmacher, because he didn't want to lose her support. He only did so when it was already on its way.

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You are right, I didn't think about that, but yes, the second nuke happens because of Otis' blunder. So it's not poor thinking, just bad luck and Luthor makes the best of it. So if I want to make it look like Luthor deliberately uses two nukes as a double-jeapardy-tool to counter Superman's speed, I have to take out Otis' blunder.

flatscan78 said:

But I agree with your opinion about the kryptonite it is quite far fetched.

But I would cut the makers of the movie some slack on that one, because kryptonite is such an integral part of the Superman mythology and an almost invincible hero like Superman needs to overcome a real threat/obstacle in order to stay interesting.

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Yes, I also like that it is a sort of obstacle and I like how Mrs. Teschmacher is weaved into it, and the sentence "Mind over muscle" is just priceless. But on the other hand I just find it very convenient that Luthor would come to the conclusion that it could harm Superman, and even more disturbing I find that after he knows of the power and effect of the kryptonite, that he wouldn't use it again, especially after Zod and co arrive.

So I'm a bit torn on this one.

Well it would be easy to use Kryptonite to defeat the three villians, but that would have taken away from their ruthless and unstoppable image. It'd be too easy and the story wouldn't mean as much. So I get why the film makers left it out, even if it makes no sense logically.

Yes, I know, that's why I try to remove the kryptonite altogether. But after thorough thinking I came to the conclusion that if want to have Luthor's attempt at land fraud I have to keep it.

The reason is that Luthor only would have told Superman everything if he could get away with it afterwards. And that means Superman would have to die, ergo the kryptonite is necessary.

Well also keep in mind that when Lex is pursuing Kryptonite, he only knows of the location in Addis Ababa. Once he has raided the rock from there he may not be able to find another one within the time frame. Just a thought.....

NewSpock said:

I just love Superman 1 with Christopher Reeve, and I like the sequel, but I always thought it could/should have been a single movie. With this edit I try to do that, aiming for a length of 3 hours.

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How could you aim for a certain runtime if you're still in the narrative structure phase? Cut what you want/have to and then see what you end up with.

NewSpock said:

I use the special edition of Superman 1 and the Lester- and Donner-cut of Superman 2, as I think both versions have their advantages and disadvantages. The changes to the story in order to make it a single movie:
1. What frees the trio from the phantom-zone is Superman's attempt to save Lois life by turning back time. This creates shockwaves in the spacetime that breaks up the phantom zone's barrier.
Many have utilised this method. Okay, moving on...
2. The freed trio's action visit to the moon will be removed, including them talking in space and on the moon, lol.
Why would you remove that part? That's where they start to discover their powers (along with other scenes). I suggest trimming where necessary so they simply don't speak. In some cases during the moon scene their expressions say all you need.
3. It's not Lois that finds out that Superman and Clark are the same person, it's Superman himself who has come to the conclusion that he loves her, that he defied his father, turned back time to save her...so he decides to let her know about his identity.
Okay, nice idea. It's not the first time/media where Superman reveals his identity himself.
4. Luthor after his landswindle-attempt (with nukes) doesn't get caught and put in prison, he remains at large and goes for Superman's home in the north.
How would you go about that? Simply cut the scene where Superman returns to Luthor's lair? -> Won't work! Luthor finds out about Superman's Fortress while in prison with Otis. How are you going to get around that so Luthor finds out about the Fortress? Luthor showing up in the Fortress with Teschmacher doesn't really amount to anything. You can cut out that whole chunk and have the villains pursue Superman while carrying Luthor. That way they all end up together in the Fortress as well.

What you COULD do is have Superman defeat the villains, Luthor escapes, Superman gives up his powers for Lois, Luthor maybe even finds out about his secret identity? Or even if he doesn't know, he simply tries to defeat Superman again (god knows how -> work it out), Clark is beaten up by Luthor's thugs (will require rotoscoping and use of other movie footage) -> Superman returns to the Fortress, has his powers restored, drops down in Lex's lair (footage from S1) and takes him to prison. All well that ends well.
5. There's no magical kiss at the end, and no second turning back of time, Lois knows Superman's identity but keeps the secret safe.
Good.
The edit will be in HD and with 5.1-sound.

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NewSpock said:

Whenever possible I will use the Lester-footage, of course minus the over-the-top-comedy. Only where Donner-footage is better regarding narrative I'll use that. The reason is that the Lester cut has the better bluray picture.

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In what way? Actual quality, or color palette? All three have different palettes, no matter how insignificant the detail. You'll have to do color grading in some instances. I can understand if you'd shy away from the RDC because of the mismatch in footage (Chris's audition tape longer hair, etc).

NewSpock said:

Agreed, I did that, I copied some of the shockwaves from the h-bomb-explosion and fitted them around the earth spinning.

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You 'copied' them? You make it sound like Microsoft Paint Did you rearrange the shots? Is that what you mean?

NewSpock said:

The kryptonite-story element seems unconvincing to me as a plotdevice:

1. How would Luthor deduct that some meteorite's radioactivity would be harmful to Superman? This is far too farfetched for my taste. You know exactly how he figured it out because he tells Otis (and the audience). Krypton blew up, silly, enamoured Superman blurted everything to Lois, she wrote about it, Luthor knew where to look and correctly assumed the remains would be radioactive and therefore deadly to Superman. It's no different than radioactive pieces of Chernobyl rubble being deadly to us. It's common sense, not far-fetched at all.
2. Why would Luthor decide the hometown of Miss Teschmacher's mother should be the second target? That's just poor thinking by him. That was because of Otis, but you know that by now.
3. When he has pinned down Superman with the kryptonite, why would he need the "double-jeopardy", ie. the second nuke. Ok this one could be explained as a mean to cover all bases in case the kryptonite doesn't work or if anything else happens differently and Superman frees himself from it. That's exactly how it could be explained, and most likely how it plays out. Luthor wants to make sure he succeeds. It's a solid plan. I'd keep the second nuke. Otherwise there's no way for the earthquake to occur. Superman goes after the other one first, and therefore can't reach Lois in time.
4. If Kryptonite exists and is provably harmful to Superman (and then likewise to Zod and co), wouldn't Luthor then get another bit of Kryptonite to use it again? Because Adis Abbaba only had so much. This is later contradicted in Superman Returns, but that's irrelevant to this edit.

So I'm thinking about removing the Kryptonite-element and relying only on the idea of using two nukes, one against a city, so that Superman would have to go to save the city, and therefore not able to prevent the nuke going off in the san andreas fault.

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Solely from an editing POV, Superman goes after the nukes after Mrs Teschmacher has saved him. He does so by flying right through the roof. How would you bridge the gap from him being inside to him being outside if you'll cut the Kryptonite altogether? Just asking. Make sure you cover all bases.

NewSpock said:

You are right, I didn't think about that, but yes, the second nuke happens because of Otis' blunder. So it's not poor thinking, just bad luck and Luthor makes the best of it. So if I want to make it look like Luthor deliberately uses two nukes as a double-jeopardy-tool to counter Superman's speed, I have to take out Otis' blunder. OK.

Yes, I also like that it is a sort of obstacle and I like how Mrs. Teschmacher is weaved into it, and the sentence "Mind over muscle" is just priceless. But on the other hand I just find it very convenient that Luthor would come to the conclusion that it could harm Superman, and even more disturbing I find that after he knows of the power and effect of the kryptonite, that he wouldn't use it again, especially after Zod and co arrive. He's smart. Give the guy some credit. Also Superman got rid of the Kryptonite, and there wasn't any more for him to use against the three Kryptonians. Also, EVEN MORE IMPORTANT: Luthor already realizes in S2 that he can't defeat Superman alone, or at least not do a very good job at trying. So he tries to get the other Kryptonians to do it for him. THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T USE KRYPTONITE (hypothetically assuming he could still have some).

So I'm a bit torn on this one. Hence why laying out your narrative BEFORE you start, like I suggested, with storyboards or cue cards or something, can help you get started on the right path.

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NewSpock said:

Yes, I know, that's why I try to remove the kryptonite altogether. But after thorough thinking I came to the conclusion that if want to have Luthor's attempt at land fraud I have to keep it. You don't have to keep it. You can still have Luthor send out two missiles at once and see Superman fail trying to stop them both.

The reason is that Luthor only would have told Superman everything if he could get away with it afterwards. And that means Superman would have to die, ergo the kryptonite is necessary.No, no, no, no.

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There, maybe I'll spur some creativity.

musiced921 said:

Well also keep in mind that when Lex is pursuing Kryptonite, he only knows of the location in Addis Ababa. Once he has raided the rock from there he may not be able to find another one within the time frame. Just a thought.....

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I think I have to make my peace with the kryptonite if I want to show Luthor pulling off this land-fraud. He just couldn't pull it off and tell Superman about it, without making sure that he would die. And if he doesn't tell Superman, the viewer wouldn't understand his plan. So I'm basically forced to use it.

Kal-El said:

You 'copied' them? You make it sound like Microsoft Paint Did you rearrange the shots? Is that what you mean?

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Yes, it's a bit like Microsoft Paint, I copied the shockwaves and put them around the earth spinning, meaning both are in the same picture, in the same scene.

The shockwaves are animated right? I mean it isn't some still images super imposed over the shot of the earth? I would much like to see a sample or a preview

Also I agree with some of the points Kal-El made up there ^^

MWRK said:

The shockwaves are animated right? I mean it isn't some still images super imposed over the shot of the earth? I would much like to see a sample or a preview

Also I agree with some of the points Kal-El made up there ^^

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Of course they are animated, they are the same as the ones copied just that it looks like they emanate from the earth.