The Hobbit - The Precious edition

[DonkeyKonga]

Sooo..

Guess this was going to happen inevitably.

Do we need another Hobbit? No.

Do I want to make one? Yes. Because I need completion.

So deal with it!

I'm not certain yet how this edit will turn out. It will probably be a 3 parter, but with far more digestible runtimes.

I'm not going for book accuracy, but rather for a 'most complete story' without the parts that refer heavily to Sauron. He's only hinted at, but never enough to make you really think he is back. Not because he shouldn't be by this point, but because it ruins the tension if we keep getting reminded of a bigger threat.

Also: because the scenes aren't particularly great.

The war will probably the most unique take, where I will try to keep it in line with the rest ( no over the top gore and violence ) and cutting out things that just look 'off', like that ramming troll with the huge block on his head lol.

I've got some ideas that are still unique for the most part, such as the goblin King for example, which plays out a little different than most cuts.

So while the ideas are similar ( we all unanimously hate Alfrid for example ) their is enough material to be creative in ways that havent been done before.

The only thing I'm uncertain about as of yet is wether to keep Bards son. One the one hand it's book accurate, but on the other hands the way he says 'daaaAaaaaaAAAAd' like Hodor gets on my nerves.

 

[ArtisDead]

I guess this was inevitable, as well.

 

[chipbayless]

Sooo..

Guess this was going to happen inevitably.

Do we need another Hobbit? No.

Do I want to make one? Yes. Because I need completion.

So deal with it!

I'm not certain yet how this edit will turn out. It will probably be a 3 parter, but with far more digestible runtimes.

I'm not going for book accuracy, but rather for a 'most complete story' without the parts that refer heavily to Sauron. He's only hinted at, but never enough to make you really think he is back. Not because he shouldn't be by this point, but because it ruins the tension if we keep getting reminded of a bigger threat.

Also: because the scenes aren't particularly great.

The war will probably the most unique take, where I will try to keep it in line with the rest ( no over the top gore and violence ) and cutting out things that just look 'off', like that ramming troll with the huge block on his head lol.

I've got some ideas that are still unique for the most part, such as the goblin King for example, which plays out a little different than most cuts.

So while the ideas are similar ( we all unanimously hate Alfrid for example ) their is enough material to be creative in ways that havent been done before.

The only thing I'm uncertain about as of yet is wether to keep Bards son. One the one hand it's book accurate, but on the other hands the way he says 'daaaAaaaaaAAAAd' like Hodor gets on my nerves.

Your works cut out for you, if you plan on topping Wraiths Legendary cut.
Good luck.
I do highly recommend splitting it into two movies though. Desolation of Smaug, my favorite of the trilogy, has an awful ending begging to be merged with the third movie.

Also, maybe it's the splatter fan within me, but Im really partial to BOTFA extended cut battle scene. Army of Darkness has nothing on that battle. Alot of misinformation going around that Jackson is disappointed in those films but he has stated that he loves the extended cut of BOTFA, and considers it some of his most exciting, fulfilling work hes ever done.
Its also, might I add, quite faithful to the books.
"And it was very terrible"
LOL.
Jackson took that one line and ran with it, arms outstretched through the finish line.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Your works cut out for you, if you plan on topping Wraiths Legendary cut.
Good luck.
I do highly recommend splitting it into two movies though. Desolation of Smaug, my favorite of the trilogy, has an awful ending begging to be merged with the third movie.

Also, maybe it's the splatter fan within me, but Im really partial to BOTFA extended cut battle scene. Army of Darkness has nothing on that battle. Alot of misinformation going around that Jackson is disappointed in those films but he has stated that he loves the extended cut of BOTFA, and considers it some of his most exciting, fulfilling work hes ever done.
Its also, might I add, quite faithful to the books.
"And it was very terrible"
LOL.
Jackson took that one line and ran with it, arms outstretched through the finish line.

I will keep some stuff, but certainly not everything from the Army. It might be terrible, but i don't remember Tolkien quoting 'terrible film'

The over the topness is a bit much, and PJ can be happy with his work, but that doesn't make it good. xD You can tell he had dun though, which is mostly the problem. BotfA is basically the Legolas vs Olifaunt scene from RotK on steroïds

I don't intend to 'top' anyone, considering everyone's preference might be different. Wraiths did quite a few just just right for me, but others I would do differently.

The problem with BotfA is that it's just an exhausting war, with a pisspoor setup and stakes. The orc army is too big to realistically win, and the final battle with azog reeks of computeranimatie and silly physics.

PJ might like it, but I dont.

 

[chipbayless]

I will keep some stuff, but certainly not everything from the Army. It might be terrible, but i don't remember Tolkien quoting 'terrible film'

The over the topness is a bit much, and PJ can be happy with his work, but that doesn't make it good. xD You can tell he had dun though, which is mostly the problem. BotfA is basically the Legolas vs Olifaunt scene from RotK on steroïds

I don't intend to 'top' anyone, considering everyone's preference might be different. Wraiths did quite a few just just right for me, but others I would do differently.

The problem with BotfA is that it's just an exhausting war, with a pisspoor setup and stakes. The orc army is too big to realistically win, and the final battle with azog reeks of computeranimatie and silly physics.

PJ might like it, but I dont.

Thats entirely your prerogative.

Im totally in the minority here, but that scene is a blast for me. Its preposterous in all the right ways. All of a sudden it goes all evil dead 2 on us. I just love that stuff, and hey, tolkien did make a point to emphasize the "terribleness" of the battle. The theatrical battle is significantly toned down but the extended battle for me is one of the purest distillations of adrenaline and manic intensity ever put to film. But thats coming from the angle of more of a Jacksons filmography fan than a tolkien fan so I completely understand why most people hate it.

Same goes for the preposterous barrel scene for that matter.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Thats entirely your prerogative.

Im totally in the minority here, but that scene is a blast for me. Its preposterous in all the right ways. All of a sudden it goes all evil dead 2 on us. I just love that stuff, and hey, tolkien did make a point to emphasize the "terribleness" of the battle. The theatrical battle is significantly toned down but the extended battle for me is one of the purest distillations of adrenaline and manic intensity ever put to film. But thats coming from the angle of more of a Jacksons filmography fan than a tolkien fan so I completely understand why most people hate it.

Same goes for the preposterous barrel scene for that matter.

The preposterous barrel scene is alright in the sense that it fits the cartoon nature of the rest.

The gore however is such a complete mismatch with the rest of the film, and I love army of Darkness for the record lol

 

[chipbayless]

I'm a bit of a troglodyte so the barrel sequence is one part of these movies I always miss when theyre edited.
That got me thinking...
I know you have a completely different idea for this edit, but wouldnt it be interesting if someone went the complete opposite direction than everyone else goes with these movies? Like, a highly kid friendly version of the Hobbit, with every silly moment retained, but completely in line with the tone of the book.

Every musical number IN
Barrel scene IN
Burps IN
Skinny dipping dwarves IN
"Bogey" talk from the trolls IN
Alfrid IN
Every Hobbiton sequence IN

Decapatations OUT
Innuendo OUT
Ominous nature of the Ring OUT
Azog OUT
Sauron OUT
The final battle? Mostly from Bilbos perspective. The deaths are OUT
Bilbo gets knocked out, we cut to black, and when he wakes up Thorin is dead.

Nobody would like it, but I think it would be neat. Call it the PG Hobbit LOL

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Call it the PG Hobbit LOL

As far as I understand it, the PG rating used to be a bit less restrictive than it is now. Take FotR for example, my old EE DVDs have it rated PG compared the 12 of TT and RotK, but it was revised up to 12 in 2020 according to its BBFC page.

The Lord Of The Rings - The Fellowship Of The Ring

A band of characters, including hobbits and elves, embark on an epic journey to destroy a dangerous ring. While the context is fantastical, there are some gruesome moments and scary scenes in this Tolkien adaptation.

www.bbfc.co.uk

The last Hobbit film was released ten years ago, it may not need too much work to qualify as PG by the definition as it stood then, if specific guidelines could be found!

 

[chipbayless]

As far as I understand it, the PG rating used to be a bit less restrictive than it is now. Take FotR for example, my old EE DVDs have it rated PG compared the 12 of TT and RotK, but it was revised up to 12 in 2020 according to its BBFC page.

The Lord Of The Rings - The Fellowship Of The Ring

A band of characters, including hobbits and elves, embark on an epic journey to destroy a dangerous ring. While the context is fantastical, there are some gruesome moments and scary scenes in this Tolkien adaptation.

www.bbfc.co.uk

The last Hobbit film was released ten years ago, it may not need too much work to qualify as PG by the definition as it stood then, if specific guidelines could be found!

UK regulations are different. In the US the FOTR was always pg-13. This reputation as being grimdark led Christopher Tolkien to dismiss the Jackson films as movies exclusively for 14 year old boys.

The interesting thing about the Hobbit is the first two films edge towards a US PG rating, with a few obligatory (honestly unnecessary) acts of terror and violence to keep them PG 13. Then the third film takes a sharp turn and edges significantly towards a US R rating, which is the harshest rating next to X.

The extended BOTFA is literally an R rating over in the US, which IMO is honestly too severe, and the ratings board actually staunchly angered Jackson, as he feels the extended BOTFA rejvenated his love of filmmaking, but most audiences wont see it thanks to the US ratings board.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

UK regulations are different. In the US the FOTR was always pg-13. This reputation as being grimdark led Christopher Tolkien to dismiss the Jackson films as movies exclusively for 14 year old boys.

The interesting thing about the Hobbit is the first two films edge towards a US PG rating, with a few obligatory (honestly unnecessary) acts of terror and violence to keep them PG 13. Then the third film takes a sharp turn and edges significantly towards a US R rating, which is the harshest rating next to X.

The extended BOTFA is literally an R rating over in the US, which IMO is honestly too severe, and the ratings board actually staunchly angered Jackson, as he feels the extended BOTFA rejvenated his love of filmmaking, but most audiences wont see it thanks to the US ratings board.

That's interesting, never thought to check myself before but it turns out that the extended BotFA is BBFC 15 whereas all other entries in either version of the trilogy are 12.

Haven't seen it so not in position to judge for myself though, since watching the theatrical cuts on their original releases I have only experienced the Hobbit films through edits, my Blu-rays remain untouched! Some scenes included in some of said edits make me not too surprised though, the chariot chase and (I believe) Legolas taking control of a troll with violent inspiration from Ratatouille!

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I'm a bit of a troglodyte so the barrel sequence is one part of these movies I always miss when theyre edited.
That got me thinking...
I know you have a completely different idea for this edit, but wouldnt it be interesting if someone went the complete opposite direction than everyone else goes with these movies? Like, a highly kid friendly version of the Hobbit, with every silly moment retained, but completely in line with the tone of the book.

Every musical number IN
Barrel scene IN
Burps IN
Skinny dipping dwarves IN
"Bogey" talk from the trolls IN
Alfrid IN
Every Hobbiton sequence IN

Decapatations OUT
Innuendo OUT
Ominous nature of the Ring OUT
Azog OUT
Sauron OUT
The final battle? Mostly from Bilbos perspective. The deaths are OUT
Bilbo gets knocked out, we cut to black, and when he wakes up Thorin is dead.

Nobody would like it, but I think it would be neat. Call it the PG Hobbit LOL

I'm removing the songs I'm afraid. Keeping blunt the knives and misty mountains since I'm not an animal. I even kept soms Alfrid tbh. I just didn't want him to be Grima 2.0.

Bogey talk is in, but toned down a tad.

 

[chipbayless]

I'm removing the songs I'm afraid. Keeping blunt the knives and misty mountains since I'm not an animal. I even kept soms Alfrid tbh. I just didn't want him to be Grima 2.0.

Bogey talk is in, but toned down a tad.

The Hobbit PG cut would not necessarily be my preferred way to watch the films mind you.
Its just that the Hobbit films, owed to the rushed production on the first film especially, are a very very tonally mismatched series.

Theres three clashing tastes the films have, some more pronounced than others.
All conflicting tones are present in the first two films.

Theres the tone of a lighthearted romp in line with the book. This is performed very well.
Then theres the tone of a prequel to the LOTR, this also is done very very effectively.
Finally, theres remnants of Del Toros abandoned production, which had a very very very different sensibility entirely.
All of this not to mention BOTFA which goes full tilt into LOTR prequel, with an added tone of a strong strong splatstick sensibility from Jacksons Dead Alive days.

All four of these tones work very well on their own, but the movies appropriately evoke a circus act when attempting to juggle these clashing styles.

So I find it disappointing that everyone and their mother tries to make the films more in line with LOTR (Wraiths Legendary Cut being the best, and my preferred way of viewing FWIW) but nobody seeks to edit the film to retain a more lighthearted sensibility, which is prevalent across the whole trilogy, always trying to bubble up to the surface.
IMO it would be cool if someone was gutsy enough to edit all three films (or cut down to just two films- "The Journey There", and "The Journey Back Again") more in line with Jacksons previous PG work, the Adventures of TinTin. Thats clearly the vibe Jackson was going for at times.

But I digress.
I understand that thats not really what your edit is trying to achieve and I respect that.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

The Hobbit PG cut would not necessarily be my preferred way to watch the films mind you.
Its just that the Hobbit films, owed to the rushed production on the first film especially, are a very very tonally mismatched series.

Theres three clashing tastes the films have, some more pronounced than others.
All conflicting tones are present in the first two films.

Theres the tone of a lighthearted romp in line with the book. This is performed very well.
Then theres the tone of a prequel to the LOTR, this also is done very very effectively.
Finally, theres remnants of Del Toros abandoned production, which had a very very very different sensibility entirely.
All of this not to mention BOTFA which goes full tilt into LOTR prequel, with an added tone of a strong strong splatstick sensibility from Jacksons Dead Alive days.

All four of these tones work very well on their own, but the movies appropriately evoke a circus act when attempting to juggle these clashing styles.

So I find it disappointing that everyone and their mother tries to make the films more in line with LOTR (Wraiths Legendary Cut being the best, and my preferred way of viewing FWIW) but nobody seeks to edit the film to retain a more lighthearted sensibility, which is prevalent across the whole trilogy, always trying to bubble up to the surface.
IMO it would be cool if someone was gutsy enough to edit all three films (or cut down to just two films- "The Journey There", and "The Journey Back Again") more in line with Jacksons previous PG work, the Adventures of TinTin. Thats clearly the vibe Jackson was going for at times.

But I digress.
I understand that thats not really what your edit is trying to achieve and I respect that.

This is what I'm doing basically. I'm keeping everything that works in line with other material. What I am doing however, is removing stuff I personally just think doesn't work within it's own world.

A Goblin king singing about his own town with a band and everything isn't a match for the way the film proceeds.

Basically what I will keep is some of the backstory stuff with Gandalf, but not all of it. Simply to suggest a little world building. But we get zero cameo's after the first film. The only wizard that's seen is Radaghast, when Gandalf discovers the tomb of the nine.
This scene is needed, because you need at least SOME setup for the LotR movies, if you want the narrative to make any sense at all for the war.
I think a LotR prequel shouldn't neccesarily feel like a LotR movie. The stakes need to be lower, and the world needs to be less evil.

 

[chipbayless]

This is what I'm doing basically. I'm keeping everything that works in line with other material. What I am doing however, is removing stuff I personally just think doesn't work within it's own world.

A Goblin king singing about his own town with a band and everything isn't a match for the way the film proceeds.

Basically what I will keep is some of the backstory stuff with Gandalf, but not all of it. Simply to suggest a little world building. But we get zero cameo's after the first film. The only wizard that's seen is Radaghast, when Gandalf discovers the tomb of the nine.
This scene is needed, because you need at least SOME setup for the LotR movies, if you want the narrative to make any sense at all for the war.
I think a LotR prequel shouldn't neccesarily feel like a LotR movie. The stakes need to be lower, and the world needs to be less evil.

Okay cool.
I do think you need Gandaf discovering the eye of sauron in the forest though. You dont have t show where he goes, we just need that implication.

The goblin musical number is a bit iffy from a continuity standpoint, but I dunno...
Part of me thinks it can add just the right amount of whimsy, like the extra parmesan cheese on top of spaghetti. Maybe you could simply shorten or tone down the song? At the very least, its inclusion will set this edit apart from the others, especially if your daring enough to have Bilbo knock out, then cut to black for five seconds with heightened reverb sounds, and then he wakes up and Thorin and Killi are dead. Talk about a curveball!

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Btw. I disagree about the second film's ending. The reason the original ending doesn't work is because the film is just far too long, gives you too little dragon and then cops out.

If you keep the pacing tight, you end up with.. the last 25 minutes of Bilbo dealing with the dragon in the film.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Okay cool.
I do think you need Gandaf discovering the eye of sauron in the forest though. You dont have t show where he goes, we just need that implication.

The goblin musical number is a bit iffy from a continuity standpoint, but I dunno...
Part of me thinks it can add just the right amount of whimsy, like the extra parmesan cheese on top of spaghetti. Maybe you could simply shorten or tone down the song? At the very least, its inclusion will set this edit apart from the others, especially if your daring enough to have Bilbo knock out, then cut to black for five seconds with heightened reverb sounds, and then he wakes up and Thorin and Killi are dead. Talk about a curveball!

This is what I will do:

- Gandalf finds the eye (no bright flash yet, lame! We want mystery!)

- Gandalf goes to the tomb, says to Radagast they have been blind etc.

- Gandalf goes to the place where Azog is hidden and we cut away to Azog saying 'yes.. he will find us'.

- We see Gandalf in part three riding a horse, wounded and on his way to tell the others about an army.

For the third film I'm not sure yet. I do know I absolutely HATE the worms, so those will go lol.

 

[chipbayless]

This is what I will do:

- Gandalf finds the eye (no bright flash yet, lame! We want mystery!)

- Gandalf goes to the tomb, says to Radagast they have been blind etc.

- Gandalf goes to the place where Azog is hidden and we cut away to Azog saying 'yes.. he will find us'.

- We see Gandalf in part three riding a horse, wounded and on his way to tell the others about an army.

For the third film I'm not sure yet. I do know I absolutely HATE the worms, so those will go lol.

That sounds perfect.

I really do think youre going to want to combine movie 2 and 3 though. The abrupt end is so obviously truncated, and if you cut down on the BOTFA (which, if the goal is to cut down on ludicrous violence, is going to shed off 20 minutes from the climax at the absolute least) then it will leave you with each film getting progressively shorter, with the final film probably being little over an hour.
"The Journey There" and "The Journey Back Again" is probably your best bet.

 

[DonkeyKonga]

I've repurposed them finding the dead dwarves in the mine to when the people of Bree start evacuating. Its an emotional scene and I didnt want to cut it.

 

[chipbayless]

Are you going to include Old Bilbo at the beginning of the first film? It plays much better without him imo.

Though there is this one beautiful scene of young Bilbo holding a wooden sword to Gandalf, during old Bilbos monologue. Its only in the extended edition, but its a marvelous scene. Ive always thought it would play really well as a flashback when Gandalf is persuading Bilbo to join the journey. Gives context to Gandalf saying "whatever happened to the Hobbit I knew"

 

[DonkeyKonga]

Are you going to include Old Bilbo at the beginning of the first film? It plays much better without him imo.

Though there is this one beautiful scene of young Bilbo holding a wooden sword to Gandalf, during old Bilbos monologue. Its only in the extended edition, but its a marvelous scene. Ive always thought it would play really well as a flashback when Gandalf is persuading Bilbo to join the journey. Gives context to Gandalf saying "whatever happened to the Hobbit I knew"

I might try that. I was also thinking of using some shots of the dwarves walking in the mine from the second film to show a bit more of the mine itself without Smaug.