The Hobbit [M4 Book Edit 2021] [4 Hours]

[ArtisDead]

Congratulations again! Few editors who waited so long to get approved deserved it as much as you did.

 

[Stromboli Bones]

Congrats my guy! November is a big month for our boy Bilbo eh?

 

[TM2YC]

This is now on ifdb: https://ifdb.fanedit.org/m4s-the-hobbit-book-edit/

Wow the VFX reel is impressive:

 

[krausfadr]

Yes having just watched M4's cut, the VFX were so impressive that I didn't even notice them. Meaning nothing stood out as VFX done for an edit. Quite a professional job well done from his VFX artist.

 

[M4_]

Thank you guys, and major props to eric1894. He made those VFX after he saw my edit and loved it, but realized that there were some plotholes I just couldn't fix without some additional work. That's his VFX reel, the only VFX stuff I did was very minor so didn't bother with advertising them haha, not my main skill.

 

[ArtisDead]

Wow! That VFX trailer is very impressive. Really puts the changes right out there.

 

[richterscale]

I thoroughly enjoyed this version of the Hobbit, many thanks for your efforts on this. I have to agree with Krausfadr, I didn't notice little details like the arrows, but all these little changes add up.

 

[TheFirstHunt]

Can't wait to watch this on Christmas! Out of curiosity, anyone know what was changed on December 9th? It says it was updated on that day but I don't know if it was just some changes on the page or an actual update to the edit.

 

[M4_]

Can't wait to watch this on Christmas! Out of curiosity, anyone know what was changed on December 9th? It says it was updated on that day but I don't know if it was just some changes on the page or an actual update to the edit.

Yep it’s just referring to changes to the page - in this case I believe it’s because someone left a review on Dec 9 so it says that date. Happy holidays!

 

[M4_]

Update - December 2021

I apologize if you already got the project and thought I wouldn't be doing anything more with it. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this past summer I got to the point where I felt I was done, but the plan was always to take one last look during (& after) getting approval here where I received additional feedback. Due to school/work, it's taken all the way until today to have everything finalized and uploaded. If you already have a copy and don't want to go through the hassle again, below is a comprehensive list of the tweaks for you to decide if it's worth it or not (The story is the same, the runtime is the same):

• Integrated "Special Thanks" into the end of the rolling credits, which also mirrors the style of the "fan club" LOTR extended credits
• Tweaked one music transition (After the final charge in the BOTFA, when we cut to Gandalf and then Bilbo)
• Digitally removed Bilbo/Dwalin from the background of a few frames during the Stone Giant segment to fix continuity - though, you'd only notice this if you paused the movie during that <1 second gap.

• ISO only: Changed release trailer to say "December 2021" instead of "December 2020" (it's really been that long since I first made the revised ISOs..)
• Digital only: Replaced the MP4's cover art with the more simple design (Which by the way, the MP4 also has metadata so you can load it into iTunes for example, and it'll have all the fan edit info)
• Artwork: All cover arts and full case arts are available in their various formats (the main one as always + the 3 new alternate ones)

Here is what the "full collection" of the edit looks like now:

Feel free to PM if you have any questions, now I can fully rest easy knowing that no stone was left unturned with this project, I'm happy with it - so were those that reviewed it - meaning there's nothing left for me to do but move onto my next project Happy holidays

 

[M4_]

Would anyone be interested in a live-watch event together? I'm thinking of doing a stream (of just my voice and a timestamp) on Dec 30th starting around 5:30pm PT. Four straight hours of Middle Earth: can discuss, talk about questions, fan edits, etc.

 

[Embis]

Just wanted to let you know that the the level of effort and dedication that was put into this edit is incredible, and it was a pleasure working with you. It has inspired me to attempt creating some myself. I had not realized it was right down my alley already with my extensive knowledge of A/V and editing until now.

On the live-watch thing, I think that would be a great idea, I'd definitely tune in.

 

[M4_]

For the Tolkien guys who might be interested..and for myself, I made this spreadsheet to really see how close mine follows the book strictly in terms of length (which is calculated from chapter runtime in minutes vs book chapter character count, so it's not perfectly accurate but a decent estimate). Things like tone, spirit, or plot I can't really calculate, but length I can.

I find it interesting, rows #3, #15, and #17 I understand the discrepancy of being longer than the book because the beginning of a film needs a lot of character stuff (which take longer on screens), while the outro of a film needs a cinematic & exciting ending (in this case lots of action and drama) which makes it longer. This also proves I didn't go too far with the book accuracy thing.

The chapters in the middle (7,8,9,13) though are off but in the opposite way, too short, which is clearly due to a lack of source footage. Lots of scenes were just never made that were originally here. Some make sense (No singing Elves in Mirkwood) and others don't to me (Annoying time jump from AUJ to DoS, way less Beorn, way less Eagle stuff).

Anyways, that's all, not the most accurate analysis.. But I just made it for fun during a quiet day at work.

 

[M4_]

Last post here I promise then I'm onto my next edit.

I never really showed this change till now but I'm really happy with it, it's the Bilbo replaced with Bard when the Erebor horn goes off, because without it I'd have to mess with the audio. Instead, we get Bard reacting happily as he knows Thorin is coming out to fight, which IMO adds to Bard's arc, going from despising Thorin to now looking appreciative. And of course, this shot was originally when Bard was looking at his kids

https://imgur.com/a/9SyqBkh

Then this one is another last minute change I did back in September, here's the process of what I did to try to make those few shots work in the Out of the Frying-pan scene- changing the subtitle, background, colors

Now why do I have these gifs you may ask, because I've been working on a website for fun to show off my edit elsewhere

Happy new year everyone!

 

[singmajesty]

Thank you for your work, I am excited for when I will be able to get a link and try your edit.

Although I enjoyed many choices made in the Maple Films edit, I must admit that I get fatigued with how often everyone is getting in trouble and everyone is getting chased. Reducing Azog's screen time and reducing the number of chases, while also polishing the transitions and details, sounds awesome.

It would be interesting if there was missing footage available to Peter Jackson, though we likely would never get a "Jackson edit" with one narrative

 

[M4_]

Reducing Azog's screen time and reducing the number of chases, while also polishing the transitions and details, sounds awesome.

Thank you for the interest! I agree, the Warg chase to Rivendell (which most people cut anyways), the Orc barrel chase, and the Dwarf-Smaug chase all removed really do well in letting the story shine in a new way, one that feels like an Orc pack isn't the thing pushing us forward.

It would be interesting if there was missing footage available to Peter Jackson, though we likely would never get a "Jackson edit" with one narrative

Fun fact:
There is very minor un-used footage that I wanted to put into my edit but it didn't work out for technical reasons. It can all be found in the appendices. First, I tried to include a quick shot of Bifur signlaying "after you" to Bilbo when entering the Mountain, which I thought was a nice gesture. I also had footage of Bombur and Bifur eating in their Mirkwood cells, just to give them more screen time. There's also the company walking through Dale witnessing the wasteland it has become, but this didn't work for logical reasons (The geography and pacing of them discovering the hidden door, it had no place). Then finally there was a quick shot of the company hinking from the AUJ trailer which would go in the montage of them leaving the Shire.

Again, these were all very minor, and I really did try to see if I could work them in, but due to the limitations of existing footage and the soundtrack it was impossible.

 

[singmajesty]

I am amazed.

When I watched the Maple Films edit, it helped scratch an itch, while also inducing a sense of anxiety. There simply was too much peril.

I have only seen your edit and Maple Films, so perhaps some of your take would not be as new to other members, however I am impressed because of how seamlessly it worked. The first act feels so much better the way you've done it -- like there's room for the character development to breathe and our "not warrior" dwarves are bold, without being made out like they are all elite warriors.

Minor points:

1.) The transition from Bilbo and Thorin listening to Gandalf and Lord Elrond to the next morning could perhaps use a fade or a little something to help it transition a bit more smoothly.
2.) The music transitions seem a bit rough as they leave the goblin caves and Bilbo sees them. Again this is minor.
3.) I was thinking that it would be smoother to let Thorin die without Bilbo coming to his side, that way there is no need to show Bilbo knocked out. However, I think it is important for Thorin to redeem himself and complete the story arc of his disdain then encouragement toward Bilbo's love for home. I would not wish the job of editing the movies into a good third act on anyone. It seems like a total mess to deal with! Bravo for your courage, you far exceeded what I thought was possible.

I LOVE the intermission occurring right after Bilbo, "I do believe the worst is behind us." What an understatement! I could have used a second intermission somewhere after Smaug dies, though that's just the nature of extended editions anyway.

This is the closest thing to a single, cohesive, emotionally relatable narrative I could ever expect to see made as a collage of the existing trilogy. I'd say it's perfectly imperfect.

Thank you so much!

 

[M4_]

Thank you for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed. It's interesting you say that about the intermission, I remember when I added it I was a bit iffy because it's sort of a dated technique, but it looks like it's paid off as many people seem to like it. It also covers up the jump from AUJ to DOS. And indeed, the final act was quite a mess to work with! For the sake of this thread and anyone curious who may stumble upon it, here's a screenshot of the final battle timeline. Probably not too hard to guess which part is Ravenhill..

As for your minor points, I'll take a minute to respond if you're curious on my thoughts (I'm still secretly obsessed with this project so any time there's room for discussion I'll hop in!):

1.) The transition from Bilbo and Thorin listening to Gandalf and Lord Elrond to the next morning could perhaps use a fade or a little something to help it transition a bit more smoothly.

I see your point, this is a very tricky transition though so it's something I've worked on quite a bit (all of us Hobbit edits that remove the White Council struggle with this). Required fading, some sfx dubbing, and some L/R panning with that repurposed shot of Thorin to ease the flow. Still though, I agree it's not perfect.

2.) The music transitions seem a bit rough as they leave the goblin caves and Bilbo sees them. Again this is minor.

Yeah, I see what you mean with this. I think it's a transition the Maple edit did first which I seem to have followed suite with in order to remove the falling bridge. It's a shame because if only that soundtrack was officially released it'd least give us a little bit more room to work with.

Maybe some new editor will come around in a few years with a solution to these things, we shall see. Till then, I'm happy with the end result. Again, thank you for the compliments it really means a lot, cheers mate.

 

[singmajesty]

With the council scene cut the way you have it in the official movie, I would guess that either there would be more footage of things winding down so we're ready to see the bright new colors of morning. Lacking more footage of night time (or possibly even a scenery shot to pad it) I would experiment with a long fade from black on the morning scene, somewhat like when Bilbo awakes from being wrapped up by the spider, so its almost like we get a sunrise.

There's nothing we can do about the amount of urgency and panic in some scenes, as that is what is filmed. I would not have the company nearly fall on the mountain pass, though I suppose trouble on the pass is in the book, it seems like it would flow more smoothly into saving the action for when the goblins trap them at night instead.

By the way, I enjoyed how long Mirkwood was. If I was to change anything there, I would possibly see if there was a way to have a slightly longer period of horseback riding between Beorn and the entrance, to get us ready for something new.

Treating Bard the way you have, and removing his son in the battle scene, makes a lot of sense and flows well. It feels a little anti-climatic for Smaug to die so soon after arriving in Lake Town, however the battle of the five armies is so long that it really makes sense for Smaug to be more like the spiders or trolls and less like a final showdown. I struggled with the third act, because after Smaug is dead, there's almost a sense of "shouldn't this movie be over?"

Out of curiosity, I wonder what would happen if someone attempted an edit where the battle scenes only occur on the doorstep of Erebor, and all the fight scenes in Dale and the elf king looking at his fallen were removed. The dwarves get in, they bunker down, Thorin is hard-hearted, the troops come to the door and assemble (perhaps this is even cut shorter), the orcs attack, Thorin changes heart and joins the battle, he sees the high point (and perhaps we get even less screen time of the flags and horns directing the orc troops), he charges it and dies killing the orc leader. Perhaps we don't really care about the humans and elves at this point. The eagles help win the battle, so we know that many survive.

 

[M4_]

With the council scene cut the way you have it in the official movie, I would guess that either there would be more footage of things winding down so we're ready to see the bright new colors of morning. Lacking more footage of night time (or possibly even a scenery shot to pad it) I would experiment with a long fade from black on the morning scene, somewhat like when Bilbo awakes from being wrapped up by the spider, so its almost like we get a sunrise.

Yeah that's the issue, there is no more footage because it cuts right to more dialogue and Galadriel, so you have to end it really quick (which is why I moved around that shot of Thorin, which helps to slow things down).

There's nothing we can do about the amount of urgency and panic in some scenes, as that is what is filmed. I would not have the company nearly fall on the mountain pass, though I suppose trouble on the pass is in the book, it seems like it would flow more smoothly into saving the action for when the goblins trap them at night instead.

I like that it mirrors the book's dangerous storm, but mainly I had to keep some form of Bilbo slipping because it leads to Thorin almost dying trying to save Bilbo, which results in some good characterization (Thorin says he should never have come -> which is then referenced in later scenes)

By the way, I enjoyed how long Mirkwood was. If I was to change anything there, I would possibly see if there was a way to have a slightly longer period of horseback riding between Beorn and the entrance, to get us ready for something new.

Thank you, I am glad I kept Mirkwood long, I included basically everything from the originals but a few small trims. That said, the horseback riding is also everything from the original movies, that's just how Jackson did it, a very quick montage of riding.

Out of curiosity, I wonder what would happen if someone attempted an edit where the battle scenes only occur on the doorstep of Erebor, and all the fight scenes in Dale and the elf king looking at his fallen were removed. The dwarves get in, they bunker down, Thorin is hard-hearted, the troops come to the door and assemble (perhaps this is even cut shorter), the orcs attack, Thorin changes heart and joins the battle, he sees the high point (and perhaps we get even less screen time of the flags and horns directing the orc troops), he charges it and dies killing the orc leader. Perhaps we don't really care about the humans and elves at this point. The eagles help win the battle, so we know that many survive.

You could definitely try this if you have a rip of the BOTFA, though I don't think it would really work because it would be too short with the Dwarf army jumping around, first they charge then they're now at the gate and Thorin enters, the Elf army also disappears, etc. Very hard to pace with that little footage