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The Hobbit [M4 Book Edit 2021] [4 Hours]

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Hello, I would be interested in watching this Edit, could you please provide a link through DM, thank you :)
 
I finally finished this and after seeing a few different fan edits, this is going to be the one I go back to. It completely replaced the real versions for me. The editing is perfect and none of the characters overstay their welcome. Bilbo is front and center as our main POV character, as he always should've been. The tablesetting of LOTR is pretty much wiped away and the focus is on watching this little hobbit realize that he has a place in a much larger world.

Just a wonderful 4 hours that fly by and ends in a truly affecting way. This will conclude all future watches of the LOTR Extended Trilogy for me.
 
Thanks mate, I really appreciate it! The more I watch the edit the more I appreciate Bilbo, he's just such a great character. The most ambitious change I made to his character was having him run away in the final battle to hide at a vantage point (similar to the book, plus he's not meant to be a warrior hero in mine), and I think as of the final release it just about works.
 
M4_ said:
Thanks mate, I really appreciate it! The more I watch the edit the more I appreciate Bilbo, he's just such a great character. The most ambitious change I made to his character was having him run away in the final battle to hide at a vantage point (similar to the book, plus he's not meant to be a warrior hero in mine), and I think as of the final release it just about works.
Click to expand...

I think for someone watching the first time, they wouldn't even really notice the change of Bilbo at the end. It's ever-so-slightly clunky but it's closer to what he would have done in the film as presented earlier with his big action sequence being attacking the spiders to save the dwarves. A full on war is definitely out of his element and it's fully believable that Bilbo would've gotten out of Dodge.

Thank you immensely for removing Bilbo killing the baby spider. It's an effective scene, but really crosses the line of making Bilbo too dark too quickly. I think having the one moment of darkness on his face when he's left alone in Bag End is the best and most subtle approach.
 
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Hi M4! I am very interested in watching your edit, but I don't know where to get it from since it is no longer available on your website. Is it possible that you directly send it to me, or are there other options?
 
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I was undecided if it was worth posting this here or not.. but since editors enjoy feedback/criticism...
(and I only remembered this because of Stromboli tagging me in his thread)


This is something I've actually forgot to mention in my review so I'm writing it here instead. A pet peeve of mine.. And it's something it's present in both the original and yours and Stromboli's fanedits.

It's when the dwarfs are stealing weapons from the armory and Killi falls down the stairs. I've always found that fall quite silly: "come on! they're warriors who can't carry weapons down some stairs?!"
But the reason it happens it's because he got shot with an arrow to the knee leg. Thorin even asks him if he's ok when giving him the weapons.
In your version you removed the scene where he was shot. But even in Stromboli's version where he left that scene, I completely forgot about that, when Kili fell down the stairs. Only hours later did it strike me.

So IMO a possible improvement that could have been done here would have been to add some line (if such exists) asking about his leg or add a 1-2 second shot showing his wounded leg.

PS: once again thank you for your amazing edit! Loved it.
 
With the reason for Kili's fall--his arrow wound--removed, that occured to me. But then, I thought nah, now it's just (more) deus ex machina (I think I have the wrong term here). Anyone can stumble on stairs for seemingly no reason at all, heck I do it. It's just an (in)convenient moment for Kili to trip over his own feet. It makes more sense with the bit of backstory reason for it, but it still serves the same purpose for the movie.

The cut that bugged me more here was teleporting to the top of the mountain in the battle. Just a few seconds of the less physics-defying bits of the journey would have helped for me.
 
not_a_wizard said:
So IMO a possible improvement that could have been done here would have been to add some line (if such exists) asking about his leg or add a 1-2 second shot showing his wounded leg.
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Yeah not really feasible, remember that I cut the battle and the moment where he got shot, so any talk of him being injured would feel a bit random, especially if it was just for the contrived purpose of him slipping in a later scene. In the originals, it was a whole subplot that had some long last effects (forcing Dwarves to stays behind) which I have cut.

As @Racerx1969 said, I think about it the same way. Additionally, the characterization of the Dwarves makes me a feel a bit better about Kili slipping clumsily, knowing that we have seen the Dwarves trip over each other and have silly moments several times before.
 
I suppose the only thing that possibly feels out of place in this scene is when Thorin asks Kili “you good?” Or whatever he says. If that was cut and you just see thorin loading him up and he moves on to the next dwarf just like that, it might be better. But that’s just me nitpicking (and I haven’t watched the edit or the theatrical film in a little while, so i don’t even know if it’s possible to make a cut like that).
 
Hmmm I guess, but visually you see Kili is carrying a ton of weapons and he sorta has to 'pick himself up' as he's struggling to carry them, so I think Thorin's question fits well as he can see he is struggling. But the one thing I would've wished (theoretically) is if Kili's performance was different and this moment was played off as more Kili just trying to impress his uncle/not seem weak, but then he ends up making a fool of himself. Sort of like when you're helping your dad move wood boards "Yep I'm fine I got it dad!" Though, if we're talking theoreticals, probably just better to redo the whole scene if Kili wasn't hurt.
 
I ask the same of my kids or wife when they are loaded up, so it felt natural to me.
 
So looking forward to hopefully seeing M4's edit soon! Totally brand new into the world of fan edits. The only other experience I have is with watching the Star Wars Despecialized versions.
 
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Kili looking a little sick is the only unfortunate remnant, otherwise I think it plays perfectly well as clumsiness. It works to me as a character moment as he's the most boyish in the group, which is great because the dwarves get less of those as the films progressed, and Kili does suffer a little in the edit as most of his significant scenes are cut (though absolutely for the better). I don't notice in the moment. And I know what has changed. It'd be nice to test on people who wouldn't know to look, something I imagine a lot of editors would enjoy. I'd assume most people who will watch a fan edit will be somwhat familiar with the changes, making them more likely to catch things.
 
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Okay, I just finished the whole movie (and have watched about half of the commentary audio :))

I have to say.. wow, bravo. I doubt that I'll have anything to say that hasn't already been said by others, but I still feel like I want to state them anyway, and to pay respects to the creator.

A tiny bit of background- I've pretty much always hated The Hobbit movies ever since first seeing them in theaters. The gross overuse of CGI, the over-the-top buffoonery of the dwarves, unnecessary slapstick humor like the trolls and potty humor, etc. All the unnecessary fluff, added characters, etc. that not only were not in the book but also totally broke the pacing of the movie and turned them into snorefests.

Cutting out Azog and all the orc chasing of the party was one of the best decisions I could imagine. One of my biggest gripes about the original movies was how little room for any meaningful character development between the party. One of the main reasons? The constant peril they are in, non-stop, to the point where it becomes exhausting to watch. Good pacing requires a balancing of action, threat of danger, and quiet moments dedicated to exposition and character development and relationships. I applaud the creator for managing this with the existing footage. By cutting out Azog and him constantly popping up to hinder the company, we're able to focus more on their bonding as a group. Not to mention, it much better fits the less serious tone of the Hobbit when compared to it's more serious and darker counterpart (Lord of the Rings).

Watching this cut, I also barely noticed the CGI. As I said before, watching the uncut movies, I couldn't get past that and it totally broke the immersion. Very impressively done.

Long story short- I found myself actually enjoying watching this movie, whereas before, I only enjoyed one-off scenes (like the great riddles in the dark scene). I especially appreciate all the attention to detail- not making the hobbits these amazing warriors, cutting out the part of Bilbo watching Gollum drop the ring before his finding it, all the audio and soundtrack touches, etc. Way too many to mention.

Thanks so much M4 for putting this together! With this version of The Hobbit, I can finally add it alongside my watch-throughs of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Can't wait to share this with my friends and family!

Edit: just heard in the audio commentary M4, in the context of why he didn't cut all of Mirkwood, talking about making the audience confused or exhausted by nonstop action. This is exactly what I was talking about earlier! Sounds like we were on the same page :)
 
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Warning: wall of text ahead!

I've given it some thought, and the only really noticeable inconsistency I've found in this cut was Thorin suddenly switching swords to Orcrist without explanation during his battle with the Orc Captain (previously known as Azog). I get that you can't have their battle scene without it due to how the movies were made (Legolas throwing Orcrist into the random orc and then Thorin retrieving it). But seeing one shot of Thorin with just a generic broadsword to the next with him suddenly holding Orcrist is a bit jarring, and might confuse people.

Regarding the fight scene that re-introduces the famous blade: I think one could make a strong case for cutting out the majority of the fight between Thorin and Azog altogether, and showing his mortal injury off-screen. I know doing that was M4's original decision and then he decided to show the fight because he felt the lay person would be confused, but I disagree. I just watched that same scene in the Bilbo Edition edit cut and I think it works pretty well, even though it's "explained" there by Bilbo passing out and therefore not being able to see everything take place.

The way I'd imagine it plays out is that they arrive at Ravenhill as in the cut now, show Fili and Kili's death, Thorin and Azog on the ice right up until Thorin sees the second Orc army then cut away from Thorin (before Orcrist is ever shown) to Bilbo waking up and seeing the Eagles, then cut to Thorin walking injured to the edge of the cliff, then Bilbo rushing to his side. Optional: somehow fit the later cut of the eagles over Thorin's shoulder in, but if you can't, then Bilbo sees the eagles already and can explain their arrival. The rest of the movie stays the same. Optional 2: Thorin and Azog looking at each other before/during/after the second orc army approaches, add some ominous foreshadowing music or some slow motion scenes to show impending doom for Throrin. There may be a way to foreshadow that he will win the fight but at a great cost/sacrifice just by tweaking some of their looks at each other.

There are a few reasons why I think this could work.
1) Fili and Kili already die gruesome deaths shown on-screen and so it's obvious they're outnumbered and overwhelmed up there, so it just makes sense that Thorin would fight to the last but end up injured.
2) Thorin dies off screen in the Hobbit book so it fits better. Also he doesn't even have Orcrist in this battle in the book since it still resides with the King of the Woodland elves until it's placed on his tomb.
3) The death itself is too gratuitous (very Saving Private Ryan-y) and isn't really necessary to see Thorin thrust through the chest with a sword. Does not add any emotional weight to his death IMO.
4) The battle scene between Thorin and Azog is pretty long even with the cuts, and since we don't know who Azog is other than some random orc captain, it's not really necessary to show a long drawn out battle between them.

Maybe that's a lot of work to just satisfy OCD people who would even notice the unexplained appearance of Orcrist haha. At the end of the day, this isn't a huge deal but I do think the suggestion of removing the majority of the fight between the two could actually help the pacing and the tone even if it wasn't just to solve the inconsistency with the sword. Ultimately, I know M4 has put in so much time and work into this project and he feels good about it so this isn't as much a request for him to change it up again as it is simply a suggestion of how to solve an issue. Maybe for another editor that feels inspired to take up the mantle!


Edit: One other potential fix to the sword inconsistency would be to reintroduce Legolas' arrival to let Gandalf know about the second orc army, and then have him show up to save Thorin and throw him the sword. This might be an easier fix and a way to preserve everything else that was done in the edit (removing Bilbo's "quest" to notify Thorin, etc.) This would also make sense because we already know Legolas has the sword from his capturing the dwaves in Mirkwood and questioning Thorin about where he got it.

The only downside to this approach is that Legolas showing up to save Thorin might not make a whole lot of sense to a "new" viewer because of his lack of screen time (only a brief cameo at Mirkwood and then the short dialogue about the Orc army). Plus it wouldn't satisfy the "true-to-book" nature of this project, nor appease the folks who loath that Legolas was inserted into this movie. But, we only have the movies that would filmed, so I don't think it would be too jarring for Legolas to show up, talk to Gandalf, and then aid Thorin against the Orcs and then give him Orcrist. We could just assume that he is a close friend of Gandalf, and recognizes that the Dwarves need help up at Ravenhill which is why he himself travels up there just in the nick of time. There is one brief scene of Bilbo's face during that, that could be cut out because it wouldn't make sense for Bilbo to be with Gandalf at that point. Lastly, Legolas' dialogue wouldn't make too much sense: Legolas: "There is a second army. Bolg leads a force of Gunderberg orcs. They are almost upon us." Gandlalf- "Gunderberg? This was their plan all along" Maybe the audio could be spliced to remove Bolg's name and replace it with something else? Or just keep his line and we can just assume Legolas found out the orc chief's name of the second army. I still don't think this would be too inappropriate because we DO see the second army when Thorin fights the orc chief (formerly known as Azog)
 
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I really loved 95% of this edit, amazing work!

Unfortunately the end battle didn't work for me... So I ended up making an amateur edit for myself by replacing the end battle from the point Thorin's company charges out with the one from Stromboli's edit (with some additional changes to make them work together, such as not showing Bilbo in invisible mode running away). But that's not what I came here for., as it is mostly a personal preference thing.

I came here to post a request: If your VFX editor (awesome work btw.) could make minor edits to the Bard vs. Smaug scene, so that one could see a larger arrow (the black arrow) sticking out of Bards quiver in the few shots where we fully see it ... would make the moment better when he pulls it out to shoot Smaug.

Also another note regarding that scene; I was wondering why don't you show the custom shot where the windlance is on fire? As Bard goes to fight Smaug with the black arrow, it leaves one questioning why doesn't he go to the tower where the windlance is located, unless it is shown on fire.

This is pretty much the only critique I have, otherwise the edit is very well done, and the story and pacing flow extremely well, so well infact that aside those points, it looks like this would be an official cut.
 
Hey, thanks guys for watching and the kind words :)
JPePe said:
I came here to post a request: If your VFX editor (awesome work btw.) could make minor edits to the Bard vs. Smaug scene, so that one could see a larger arrow (the black arrow) sticking out of Bards quiver in the few shots where we fully see it ... would make the moment better when he pulls it out to shoot Smaug.
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Yeah we already talked about this. Tracking a new arrow in is very hard to accomplish, if you can find a 3d model of a black arrow though let us know that'd be step 1. We also talked about the Orcrist situation
JPePe said:
Also another note regarding that scene; I was wondering why don't you show the custom shot where the windlance is on fire? As Bard goes to fight Smaug with the black arrow, it leaves one questioning why doesn't he go to the tower where the windlance is located, unless it is shown on fire.
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The official cuts left you wondering this too, so I never thought it was a big deal in making the edit feel realistic. Sure there's a cool shot made by Dustin, but it's pretty ambitious which is why it's the classic dilemma: you don't want the audience to notice it's a fan edited shot but you also want to fix something, so there's pros/cons.

As for the discussion on the battle of Ravenhill, I like it the way it is in my cut. I get both of your guy's points - ever since I released the edit I've always had a few people wishing it was longer with the sequence showing them arrive to Ravenhill, while I also had people wishing it was shorter and most of the duels were just entirely skipped over. Then there's the group who likes it in the middle ground, like me. I think working in the "Misty Mountains" rescored segment is great in tying the whole film together back to the start, as well as paying homage to the way Bilbo acted in the book (after all, this is a book cut), and then of course the action is action I think it's worth it to show the duels on screen for emotional weight, tension, and because the audience might be let down without it.
 
M4_ said:
Hey, thanks guys for watching and the kind words :)

Yeah we already talked about this. Tracking a new arrow in is very hard to accomplish, if you can find a 3d model of a black arrow though let us know that'd be step 1. We also talked about the Orcrist situation

The official cuts left you wondering this too, so I never thought it was a big deal in making the edit feel realistic. Sure there's a cool shot made by Dustin, but it's pretty ambitious which is why it's the classic dilemma: you don't want the audience to notice it's a fan edited shot but you also want to fix something, so there's pros/cons.

As for the discussion on the battle of Ravenhill, I like it the way it is in my cut. I get both of your guy's points - ever since I released the edit I've always had a few people wishing it was longer with the sequence showing them arrive to Ravenhill, while I also had people wishing it was shorter and most of the duels were just entirely skipped over. Then there's the group who likes it in the middle ground, like me. I think working in the "Misty Mountains" rescored segment is great in tying the whole film together back to the start, as well as paying homage to the way Bilbo acted in the book (after all, this is a book cut), and then of course the action is action I think it's worth it to show the duels on screen for emotional weight, tension, and because the audience might be let down without it.
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That makes sense. I'd be curious to see where the discussion has led about the Orcrist situation. Also, I edited my original comment (towards the bottom) with another idea. I'm guessing you don't like the idea of bringing Legolas back to hand off the sword?
 
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