The Abyss: Revisited Edition

[Menbailee]

The Special Edition impresses me again with the ending you've built and the different story it told. The SE ending gives a very different impression of the Aquatics. They know about us, they watch our television, they have the power to destroy our civilization at will, and they understand human speech. If this is the case, I'm not sure why they were raspberrying Lindsey with a water pillar instead of just sending a text message through the window.

In your version, I get the impression that the Aquatics are meeting us for the first time, same as we're meeting them. The vehicles we encounter early on may be some of their first at those heights, just as we only now are reaching their depths. They are confused by us and trying their best to communicate. This first-contact story feels more original than super-powered aliens telling us to put away our nukes, which has happened a lot in sci-fi.

Regarding details, the flashback was well constructed, and I don't think it broke the immediacy of the moment too badly. I understood why the Aquatic would rescue Bud without the explanation, but some viewers might not, and the flashback makes the message extremely clear.

In your version, I wish we could keep the beat of Bud seeing his own last words to Lindsey shown back to him. He could gasp for air, look up and see the approaching Aquatics, and then at their gesture turn and see his poignant words in the water. His salute back keeps the ending devoid of dialogue, as you've preferred, and the implication would be that the Aquatics probably don't know what these words mean, but they understood they had to be something meaningful. It's a poetic and striking moment which drives home the possibility of communication.

This is just my own wish; the Revisited ending works as it is. In case this isn't clear by now, I've been converted regarding the resuscitation scene. The previously discussed issue with the way the action sequences jar some audiences out of the drama is the only real problem. Movies establish their tone of relative realism early on, and you've achieved a successful enough naturalism that it changes how the audience responds to the entire movie!

 

[seciors]

I have to thank you Menbailee for bringing a very thoughtful discussion to this edit.

I think it is worth mentioning at this point why I felt compelled to do this edit in the first place, and that was to try to 'fix' the ending which for me was a terrible end to what I felt to be an almost great movie. Having the aliens already know about us and the incredibly preachy-ness really turned me off, and their 'threat' to destroy humanity (and every land species as well) with the tidal wave was just too over the top for me. Plus, the special effects of the tidal wave are quite weak compared to today's standards.

So anyway, I really wanted to find an ending without any of that.

And as we are talking about suspension of disbelief, the way the topside conflict escalated to the brink of WW3 in a matter of *hours* certainly rubbed me the wrong way. I found it unbelievable, and also the USA vs Russia angle felt cliche to me. Maybe that could really happen, but not without more details (which would really be a whole different movie in and of itself).

This movie has problems no matter how you look at it, I think. My goal was to strip the story down to just the first contact story. However, you have rightly pointed out that I was not able to completely control the tone. Those two action scenes unfortunately cannot be excised, as the plot requires them to have coffee send the nuke down to the aliens. They can be cut down, but not removed. And you are right they might feel out of place in my version. Since the very next scene is the death/revival one, I can appreciate that ones experience might have been adversely impacted and one might see it as over the top at that point. That said, I also believe the revival scene is so riveting that it would pull most people back into the movie even if they felt the setup was contrived. I feel it is so well acted and directed that the emotional force should surpass the problems one might have with the lead in. But that's just me.

There was a comment earlier about why does Bud have to be the one to try and save the aliens? I dont think the navy SEAL could do it because he had a broken leg, though I agree he would be the logical choice if he was capable to do so.

When creating the ending I played around with a lot of different things. I too loved the moment where his last text is shown onscreen, but I felt I couldn't include it and still maintain the relationship between the aliens and humans - it would require questioning how they knew about it in the first place. Plus, I just don't think it was necessary in the context of that moment.

I am still happy with my edit, and all this discussion has been great. I think the one flaw in my edit is giving coffee enough credible reason to go to phase 3. I rely totally on the pressure syndrome, and as I have said earlier, I probably shouldn't have cut the first tip-off to the audience that he was suffering from it. I think that would give the audience something from the start to look out for...wondering when he is going to go bonkers and how? I am almost compelled to make that change and re-release it (for future viewers of course).

 

[Menbailee]

I am still happy with my edit, and all this discussion has been great. I think the one flaw in my edit is giving coffee enough credible reason to go to phase 3. I rely totally on the pressure syndrome, and as I have said earlier, I probably shouldn't have cut the first tip-off to the audience that he was suffering from it. I think that would give the audience something from the start to look out for...wondering when he is going to go bonkers and how? I am almost compelled to make that change and re-release it (for future viewers of course).

Weirdly, the one point you regard as a flaw, I thought worked well. Coffey telegraphs to the audience that he'll suffer from HPNS as soon as he barks down Lindsey's warnings about it. The first twitch would just underscore what audiences already expect.

I don't view Coffey as simply going crazy. They're facing down aliens. Aliens whose first contact, as far as Coffey is concerned, was sinking a United States nuclear submarine, and who attack by shutting down the electronics which drive all our technology. Remember, in your edit we don't know and never do find out the circumstances of the submarine crash! The idea that the Aquatics sank it deliberately feels more plausible. Coffey believes he's the line between America and an unprecedented threat, and this threat gives him a better motivation than the WWIII schtick in my view. The HPNS disables him from stepping back to review his reasoning, and it leads to his responding to threats to his authority with paranoia and eventually violence.

Significantly, Bud may have drawn the same conclusions as Coffey, but he decides to defend Lindsey's perspective with his life, not because he has any evidence, but because he trusts and loves her. It's a powerful statement.

(I'm tempted to go on a fanciful flight and interpret Lindsey as a subversion of Eve, tempting her husband with forbidden knowledge and with rejection of accepted authority in favor of a repulsive Other. Except that Lindsey is right, and her choice leads to a new Eden instead of an expulsion from it. I'm reaching here, but Cameron's work around this period does tend to have more complicated semiotics than visible at first glance.)

Those two action scenes unfortunately cannot be excised, as the plot requires them to have coffee send the nuke down to the aliens.

I was making the point that the first scene, the swim and fight, actually could be excised; if the crew doesn't encounter the additional locked door and rushes in to find Coffey already departing in the sub, then nothing is changed about the outcome.

The sub battle, on the other hand, is absolutely required by the plot, though it may be possible to trim it further.

Whether you feel these things should be done, of course, is up to you!

I have to thank you Menbailee for bringing a very thoughtful discussion to this edit.

Thank you for discussing your work as well. I do hope it's a discussion you're enjoying.

 

[L8wrtr]

Review given on new IFDB site:

A good buddy and I went to see The Abyss when we were in high school and I'll never forget our driving around after the film in complete bewilderment at the contradicting nature of film; how could a movie that was so enthralling, so exciting and so tense have, quite literally, such an unbelievable (in a very shitty way) ending? This was the same guy who made The Terminator and Aliens?

Seciors' edit is remarkable in that it takes the best parts of The Abyss and improves on them. Unfortunately, it's still the Abyss, and short of re-shooting/creating new footage for the ending, the conclusion of the film is (yes, pun intended) Abysmal.

Audio/Visual
As the editor himself warns, there is no fixing the fact that Cameron has yet to release a decent quality version of this movie. I watched this on a 50" plasma and the image holds up as best as you can hope given the poor quality of the commercial release. Hopefully Cameron will release an anamorphic BD of this movie, and when he does, I hope seciors will revisit this project. Audio quality comes across fine. Comparing apples to apples (edit against original source) the quality is a 10, although against other edits, it's obviously not as good. No strike against the editor for this, he did his job in maintaining best possible quality.

Technical:
From the opening frame, right until Bud is on the floor in the alien city, this is A+ editing. Audio and video work are invisible. If you were to show this film to someone who'd never seen the original, there is no way they'd know this was a fanedit. Seamless, invisible and professional grade work. 10/10

Narrative
Seciors had a specific and concise vision for this story and he executed on his intentions spectacularly. Relieved of the Cold War sub-plot, the underlying story shines brilliantly, and the film's pacing is consistent and enjoyable. The tension is actually more palpable with both the cold war, and top-side elements removed. I already enjoyed the film (minus the ending) and this takes something that was good, and makes it great.

Excluding the ending, I would make only 2 recommendations:
1) I would recommend cutting ALL topside footage. In the end it adds very little and I think that keeping the entire film from their perspective underwater would be all the more claustrophobic and add even more to the sense of isolation that this edit already has dialed to 11. Additionally this would exclude some pretty laughable model work. Even back in the 80s I never thought I was looking at anything other than models during the crane sequence.
2) I would strongly recommend cutting Lindsey's line explaining they'll need to spend 3 weeks decompressing. With the new modified ending this line becomes red herring with no resolution and only servers to increase the WTF level of the ending.

Overall this is a 10/10 for me. Seciors has done a fantastic job with making the body of the film even better, and I never considered the main body of the film to be flawed, so to make something already good, better deserves a 10 in my book.

Enjoyment.
As greatly improved as the bulk of the film is, the ending is still the ending. Seciors does an admirable job of trying to clean-it up, make it as palatable as possible, but in the end it's still a wtf Deus-Ex-Machina ending which left me incredibly disgruntled. This is not his fault in anyway, he does an impressive job of trying to salvage the mess that will always be the killer of this film.

This is a tough call, ordinarily improving an already solid movie as much as he did should earn a full 10 on overall enjoyment, but the ending still kills everything that comes before it so I can't give a full 10, but a very enthusiastic 9.

This edit is L8wrtr Recommended

(overall rating calculates to 9.5)

 

[seciors]

L8wrter,
Thanks so much for taking the time to both watch and review my edit! I greatly appreciate it, and am so glad you enjoyed it! This has been quite an experience, given the various reactions I've heard. But I immensely respect your opinion, and so your review means a lot to me.

Excluding the ending, I would make only 2 recommendations:
1) I would recommend cutting ALL topside footage. In the end it adds very little and I think that keeping the entire film from their perspective underwater would be all the more claustrophobic and add even more to the sense of isolation that this edit already has dialed to 11. Additionally this would exclude some pretty laughable model work. Even back in the 80s I never thought I was looking at anything other than models during the crane sequence.

Yes, I agree with you that I should have tried harder to do this. I gave up too quickly, as it was my original intent.

2) I would strongly recommend cutting Lindsey's line explaining they'll need to spend 3 weeks decompressing. With the new modified ending this line becomes red herring with no resolution and only servers to increase the WTF level of the ending.

You know, I actually did have that line cut in the workprint, but I put it back in for who knows what reason! I agree it serves no purpose due to the ending.

Hopefully Cameron will release an anamorphic BD of this movie, and when he does, I hope seciors will revisit this project.

I hope for this too, and I most certainly would revisit this project, and include both of your suggestions.

Once again, thank you!

 

[seciors]

Hi Menbailee,

Weirdly, the one point you regard as a flaw, I thought worked well. Coffey telegraphs to the audience that he'll suffer from HPNS as soon as he barks down Lindsey's warnings about it. The first twitch would just underscore what audiences already expect.

I agree it is telegraphed, but I think for those who feel Coffey doesn't have enough motivation without the topside conflict, it might placate them. I would have to at least try it out and see if it is too over-the-top like I originally felt it was in the original.

I was making the point that the first scene, the swim and fight, actually could be excised; if the crew doesn't encounter the additional locked door and rushes in to find Coffey already departing in the sub, then nothing is changed about the outcome.

I think this would be difficult to do for two reasons. First, I'm pretty sure Coffey is a bit bloodied up after the fight. I forget exactly though, I'd have to look at the footage again. Second, editing their entrance into the room might feel a bit jumpy since I'd have to make sure there's no trace of Bud and Catfish while they are entering. I think it might be doable, but I'd have to play around with it to be sure. However, if the first reason were true, it would be a no-go since there would be no explanation for Coffey's changed appearance. I think it would be obvious something was cut out. If it could work, I'd give it a try though. Thanks for the idea!

The sub battle, on the other hand, is absolutely required by the plot, though it may be possible to trim it further.

It is actually possible to trim it further; at one point I had done so (for the very reasons you have pointed out...to minimize the action stuff). But to me, it felt too rushed for Lindsey to come up with such a dangerous plan to end the battle. I felt it was necessary to establish that Coffey was not content that the missile got sent down to the aliens, but that he really was trying to kill them and wouldn't stop. I didn't want people to question why Lindsey didn't just try to drive back to the moon pool.

Thank you for discussing your work as well. I do hope it's a discussion you're enjoying.

It has been; it is very interesting to hear so many different reactions to this film and my edit of it!

 

[L8wrtr]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think the two action pieces work fine as currently constructed. Even though this has been reformulated as much more of a first-contact/exploration of the human condition/mystery type story, the antagonist is a SEAL, a person trained in violence and I think a confrontation between the protagonist and antagonist is still an expected piece in the story and at least for me was an appropriate release of the long-building tension that you've created up to that point.

Again, just my 2 cents!

 

[seciors]

Thanks for your opinion L8, which is always worth more than 2 cents!

I think you make a good point about the fight giving us the release of tension.

It also makes me think of the commentary on the special edition; as I recall they really wanted the fight to feel very primative/visceral, like a fight in the jungle between animals...the music was crafted to help that feeling as well. In that light, such a fight does fit with my overall intent. Yes, it might be implausible that Bud would take on a navy SEAL, but IMO Bud feels like he is responsible for the people on board, and he doesn't really plan things through intellectually speaking as much as follow his gut.

 

[Menbailee]

I agree it is telegraphed, but I think for those who feel Coffey doesn't have enough motivation without the topside conflict, it might placate them. I would have to at least try it out and see if it is too over-the-top like I originally felt it was in the original.

I share your opinion of the shot being over-the-top, but it's not a big deal either way.

I second L8's comment about cutting the line about needing three weeks to decompress. I didn't think about it the first time I watched the movie, but it occurred to me afterward.

Depending on your intent, you might also cut the soldier's protests that the nuke will kill them all as well. It makes Coffey's motive more reasonable, and it makes big a difference if Bud is going down to save the Aquatics versus the rig crew just wanting to save its own skin.

I think this would be difficult to do for two reasons. First, I'm pretty sure Coffey is a bit bloodied up after the fight... If it could work, I'd give it a try though. Thanks for the idea!

In the shot where Coffey climbs into the submarine, he's way too bloodied, but once he's in there, he's clean enough that the transition may work.

It is actually possible to trim it further; at one point I had done so (for the very reasons you have pointed out...to minimize the action stuff). But to me, it felt too rushed for Lindsey to come up with such a dangerous plan to end the battle. I felt it was necessary to establish that Coffey was not content that the missile got sent down to the aliens, but that he really was trying to kill them and wouldn't stop. I didn't want people to question why Lindsey didn't just try to drive back to the moon pool.

That's all very reasonable, and thinking through Lindsey's desperation stays consistent on considering these characters as real human beings and not action figures. Good call.