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Vegas Studio is really solid for the price. Pro is awesome, but an investment for sure.
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Superman IV: The Quest For Cash by Billy Batson
- Thread starter Billy Batson
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Sweet price on v11. Reviews on v13 aren't very helpful. One guy loves it and one guy had the wrong platform. I'll check around for some more reviews on v13 elsewhere. Thanks for the help.TV's Frink said:
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Right, assesment of the latest workrprint edition
The pacing is really something, i love the modified birth of Nuclear Man, and the transistion from the U.S missile to the russian launch is well handled, the soundtrack really seaugeways into it beutifully. The trader tapping on the table as the applause goes on is very creative too, a nice subtle change that immediatly plays up the tension and fallout of Superman's decisions.
The pacing is really something, i love the modified birth of Nuclear Man, and the transistion from the U.S missile to the russian launch is well handled, the soundtrack really seaugeways into it beutifully. The trader tapping on the table as the applause goes on is very creative too, a nice subtle change that immediatly plays up the tension and fallout of Superman's decisions.
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Thanks, Zarius. I really appreciate all of your help, along with other board members who offered assistance.
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I've ordered a copy of SM4 on Blu-ray and will be cutting a final "workprint" edition after it arrives. A couple of other members have kindly offered to review the current cut, so after I receive their feedback I think I'll submit this for consideration by the Academy. I currently have another edit pending review (DRACULA "Restored"), is it acceptable to submit both for review at the same time?
Thanks,
Clark
"Billy Batson"
Thanks,
Clark
"Billy Batson"
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Well, I've ordered the download version of Vegas Studio Suite 13 from Amazon and am currently downloading it. As mentioned by the old pros here, the audio editing capabilities of AVS are just too inadequate. Plus, I couldn't turn the volume on AVS high enough to catch all of the hard edits. Thanks to all for the advice.
Finally got a chance to watch the work print of this and made notes while I was watching:
* With the whole sequence of Superman flying Lois around the world and then using his 'roofie kiss' on her cut out, perhaps you could do some further re-sequencing to smooth over Superman's change of heart on the Nuclear Missiles issue, since his discussion with Lois was originally a major part of his decision...
I would try moving the sequence where he goes to the Fortress for guidance to before he gives Jeremy his answer. then him looking pensive after reading the 'Superman Says Drop Dead!' headline would work as the 'I'm changing my mind against the advice of the counsel' transition to the next scene, where he meets Jeremy outside thebus station United Nations building.
* Related to that, I would also probably cut-out the re-inserted deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at the school - I was always fine with the theatrical cut version and just assumed Superman probably never gave him an answer - but that's just a personal preference thing. The fact that they're all dressed the same at the school as they were on the day when Jeremy wrote the letter always bothers me
* Really like how you slimmed down the Nuclear Missile gathering so that it's all one sequence leading into Nuclear Man's birth - I guess Superman worked this plan out with the governments of Earth which is why they were firing their missiles off (so he could gather them harmlessly in space), and how Lex knew that Superman would throw them into the Sun...
* The creation of the (second) Nuclear Man goo sequence could possibly be moved to before Lex has his meeting with the arms dealers... I know it's not the same box as the one on the missile, but since Luthor already explains the goo and Nuclear Man in the arms deal scene, people should be able to make the connection - then the flow would go straight from arms deal scene to Lex at the military base, with the lab scene going earlier (possibly replacing the re-inserted deleted scene of Lex cooking up the (cut first) Nuclear Man in the microwave or whatever it was...
* Off-topic but I really wish the Metro Club scene was one of the available deleted scenes so the whole original Nuclear Man story line could be added in, but them's the breaks
* Lenny break-dance cutting for the win! Personal preference again, but I would look into moving the gym scene so that Nuclear Man's creation and journey to Earth isn't split up and see if that works...
* Just some random comments on the source material: how does Lex know to tell Superman to 'Look to his left' when he's talking to him over Lex TV? And why are they having dinner at the interview when it was supposed to be High Tea originally?
* I think the 'fight around the world' needs some more added back to it - at least the tornado in Smallville deleted scene (a better copy of it was on the Laserdisc player compared to the released deleted scene version) if you don't want to have the Great Wall of China scene (although, could it be cut so that Superman just doesn't rebuild the Great Wall with his new-found 'reverse footage to repair the Great Wall of China' vision?). The whole sequence is about as epic a set piece as this movie is going to get and it just seems a little short at the moment.
* Maybe you could try cutting Luthor's line about 'I know you have some missiles left' when he's addressing the US military... while it's realistic that they would have some left, this movie isn't exactly about realism and it seems like it would be just as effective skipping straight to Luthor saying he can replenish their supplies of Nuclear Missiles...
* ...On that note, where does Lex actually get these Nuclear Missiles from? Sorry, just commenting on the source material again
* I think the transition from Nuclear Man flying up into the roof with Lacy cutting to the... tanning booth chamber thing... can work with a little more sound editing - it just needs some music/sound to carry over from the previous scene and I think it would feel a lot more natural.
* Random idea - could you use repeated footage of Nuclear Man coming out of the chamber earlier, when he is 'powering up' in the sunlight before he sees Lacy on the cover of the Daily Planet? It could help establish that it is a 'power up' chamber and make its later appearance less 'out of nowhere'?
* Could you cut the 'Stop don't do it, the people!' line? It just comes across really badly, IMO
* I wish Lacy wasn't just standing around Lex's apartment in a 'dum de dum I'm just waiting to be kidnapped' manner in the deleted scene where Nuclear Man comes back and grabs her. As hacked up as the theatrical version is, at least they used the earlier 'proactive Lacy' scene. And why IS she back at Lex's apartment? Shouldn't Superman actually have taken her somewhere 'far away and safe' after he used her as bait? Maybe that should actually be cut as well and just leave it up to the imagination that he found her and kidnapped her again - perhaps have some flying shots of Nuclear Man carrying her over Metropolis to establish that he kidnapped her again (he does have Superman's powers, so unless she's in a lead lined bunker he could probably find her pretty easily) ...
* I like how you cut the shots of Lacy in space - some more audio fine tuning is needed, but otherwise very good job!
* I would probably cut from him dropping Nuclear Man into the cooling tower to Superman capturing Luthor and bringing him back to the rock quarry before going on to all the other final stuff as well... the extended ending with Jeremy would be kind of nice except he takes Jeremy into space without a space suit (Yay! Oh wait, Superman IV physics means he can just breathe instead of having his head explode...) and also the dialogue is pretty terrible... but 'it's all one world' would segue nicely into the standard 'wink and fly around Earth' ending...
* Actually, I wonder if the earlier deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at his school could be edited and worked in near the end... showing how Superman has realized he can't make decisions for the world etc etc?
Whew Nice job with what the resources available and I hope you're getting the hang of Vegas Studio you downloaded! You've definitely got some good ideas for this edit and I can't wait to see the final version - sorry if it seems like I made a lot of suggestions for changes, the source material really lends itself to be cut up in numerous ways though if you're willing to accept the quality of the deleted scenes we have access to.
* With the whole sequence of Superman flying Lois around the world and then using his 'roofie kiss' on her cut out, perhaps you could do some further re-sequencing to smooth over Superman's change of heart on the Nuclear Missiles issue, since his discussion with Lois was originally a major part of his decision...
I would try moving the sequence where he goes to the Fortress for guidance to before he gives Jeremy his answer. then him looking pensive after reading the 'Superman Says Drop Dead!' headline would work as the 'I'm changing my mind against the advice of the counsel' transition to the next scene, where he meets Jeremy outside the
* Related to that, I would also probably cut-out the re-inserted deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at the school - I was always fine with the theatrical cut version and just assumed Superman probably never gave him an answer - but that's just a personal preference thing. The fact that they're all dressed the same at the school as they were on the day when Jeremy wrote the letter always bothers me
* Really like how you slimmed down the Nuclear Missile gathering so that it's all one sequence leading into Nuclear Man's birth - I guess Superman worked this plan out with the governments of Earth which is why they were firing their missiles off (so he could gather them harmlessly in space), and how Lex knew that Superman would throw them into the Sun...
* The creation of the (second) Nuclear Man goo sequence could possibly be moved to before Lex has his meeting with the arms dealers... I know it's not the same box as the one on the missile, but since Luthor already explains the goo and Nuclear Man in the arms deal scene, people should be able to make the connection - then the flow would go straight from arms deal scene to Lex at the military base, with the lab scene going earlier (possibly replacing the re-inserted deleted scene of Lex cooking up the (cut first) Nuclear Man in the microwave or whatever it was...
* Off-topic but I really wish the Metro Club scene was one of the available deleted scenes so the whole original Nuclear Man story line could be added in, but them's the breaks
* Lenny break-dance cutting for the win! Personal preference again, but I would look into moving the gym scene so that Nuclear Man's creation and journey to Earth isn't split up and see if that works...
* Just some random comments on the source material: how does Lex know to tell Superman to 'Look to his left' when he's talking to him over Lex TV? And why are they having dinner at the interview when it was supposed to be High Tea originally?
* I think the 'fight around the world' needs some more added back to it - at least the tornado in Smallville deleted scene (a better copy of it was on the Laserdisc player compared to the released deleted scene version) if you don't want to have the Great Wall of China scene (although, could it be cut so that Superman just doesn't rebuild the Great Wall with his new-found 'reverse footage to repair the Great Wall of China' vision?). The whole sequence is about as epic a set piece as this movie is going to get and it just seems a little short at the moment.
* Maybe you could try cutting Luthor's line about 'I know you have some missiles left' when he's addressing the US military... while it's realistic that they would have some left, this movie isn't exactly about realism and it seems like it would be just as effective skipping straight to Luthor saying he can replenish their supplies of Nuclear Missiles...
* ...On that note, where does Lex actually get these Nuclear Missiles from? Sorry, just commenting on the source material again
* I think the transition from Nuclear Man flying up into the roof with Lacy cutting to the... tanning booth chamber thing... can work with a little more sound editing - it just needs some music/sound to carry over from the previous scene and I think it would feel a lot more natural.
* Random idea - could you use repeated footage of Nuclear Man coming out of the chamber earlier, when he is 'powering up' in the sunlight before he sees Lacy on the cover of the Daily Planet? It could help establish that it is a 'power up' chamber and make its later appearance less 'out of nowhere'?
* Could you cut the 'Stop don't do it, the people!' line? It just comes across really badly, IMO
* I wish Lacy wasn't just standing around Lex's apartment in a 'dum de dum I'm just waiting to be kidnapped' manner in the deleted scene where Nuclear Man comes back and grabs her. As hacked up as the theatrical version is, at least they used the earlier 'proactive Lacy' scene. And why IS she back at Lex's apartment? Shouldn't Superman actually have taken her somewhere 'far away and safe' after he used her as bait? Maybe that should actually be cut as well and just leave it up to the imagination that he found her and kidnapped her again - perhaps have some flying shots of Nuclear Man carrying her over Metropolis to establish that he kidnapped her again (he does have Superman's powers, so unless she's in a lead lined bunker he could probably find her pretty easily) ...
* I like how you cut the shots of Lacy in space - some more audio fine tuning is needed, but otherwise very good job!
* I would probably cut from him dropping Nuclear Man into the cooling tower to Superman capturing Luthor and bringing him back to the rock quarry before going on to all the other final stuff as well... the extended ending with Jeremy would be kind of nice except he takes Jeremy into space without a space suit (Yay! Oh wait, Superman IV physics means he can just breathe instead of having his head explode...) and also the dialogue is pretty terrible... but 'it's all one world' would segue nicely into the standard 'wink and fly around Earth' ending...
* Actually, I wonder if the earlier deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at his school could be edited and worked in near the end... showing how Superman has realized he can't make decisions for the world etc etc?
Whew
Nice job with what the resources available and I hope you're getting the hang of Vegas Studio you downloaded! You've definitely got some good ideas for this edit and I can't wait to see the final version - sorry if it seems like I made a lot of suggestions for changes, the source material really lends itself to be cut up in numerous ways though if you're willing to accept the quality of the deleted scenes we have access to.
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Thanks for taking the time to watch the cut and for your thoughtful comments.
I'm working on an idea for the change of heart. I agree it's a bit too abrupt as I originally cut it.
Good point, but I'll probably leave this one in. That teacher is a bit of a hottie so giving her another scene is worth the minor annoyance.;-)
Yes, the absence of an explanation as to why everyone is launching their missiles into space all of a sudden is a bit of a plot hole in the original film as well. I think the comic book adaptation (and probably the original script) had Superman telling the governments of Earth to do it. I wonder if that scene was ever filmed?
I don't know about this one. In the arms dealers scene, Lenny brings out the un-boxed nuclear goo and Lex shows it to the dealers.
When they cut the Metro Club scene they left the whole "Clark's series on Metro nightlife" bit hanging, but I don't really miss not being able to use the Nuclear Man 1 footage. I think adding it would drag the film down a bit.
Hmm. I'll give it some thought, but I don't really miss it.
I like that idea. I'll see what I can do with it.
Good point. I'll work on it and see how it comes out.
Thanks. I've been working on the audio here and think (hope) I have it worked out.
Thanks again. I really appreciate the assistance.
coinilius said:
I'm working on an idea for the change of heart. I agree it's a bit too abrupt as I originally cut it.
coinilius said:* Related to that, I would also probably cut-out the re-inserted deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at the school - I was always fine with the theatrical cut version and just assumed Superman probably never gave him an answer - but that's just a personal preference thing. The fact that they're all dressed the same at the school as they were on the day when Jeremy wrote the letter always bothers me
Good point, but I'll probably leave this one in. That teacher is a bit of a hottie so giving her another scene is worth the minor annoyance.;-)
coinilius said:
Yes, the absence of an explanation as to why everyone is launching their missiles into space all of a sudden is a bit of a plot hole in the original film as well. I think the comic book adaptation (and probably the original script) had Superman telling the governments of Earth to do it. I wonder if that scene was ever filmed?
coinilius said:
I don't know about this one. In the arms dealers scene, Lenny brings out the un-boxed nuclear goo and Lex shows it to the dealers.
coinilius said:* Off-topic but I really wish the Metro Club scene was one of the available deleted scenes so the whole original Nuclear Man story line could be added in, but them's the breaks
When they cut the Metro Club scene they left the whole "Clark's series on Metro nightlife" bit hanging, but I don't really miss not being able to use the Nuclear Man 1 footage. I think adding it would drag the film down a bit.
coinilius said:
Hmm. I'll give it some thought, but I don't really miss it.
coinilius said:
I like that idea. I'll see what I can do with it.
coinilius said:
Good point. I'll work on it and see how it comes out.
coinilius said:
Thanks. I've been working on the audio here and think (hope) I have it worked out.
coinilius said:* I would probably cut from him dropping Nuclear Man into the cooling tower to Superman capturing Luthor and bringing him back to the rock quarry before going on to all the other final stuff as well... the extended ending with Jeremy would be kind of nice except he takes Jeremy into space without a space suit (Yay! Oh wait, Superman IV physics means he can just breathe instead of having his head explode...) and also the dialogue is pretty terrible... but 'it's all one world' would segue nicely into the standard 'wink and fly around Earth' ending...
* Actually, I wonder if the earlier deleted scene of Superman visiting Jeremy at his school could be edited and worked in near the end... showing how Superman has realized he can't make decisions for the world etc etc?
Whew
Thanks again. I really appreciate the assistance.
FantasyWorkshop
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Sweet, yet another Superman fan showing IV some love, mega props to you man, I hope even more people consider doing there own take on this, as I DO believe there is a good, not great, but good movie in there, & cant wait to get started on my own version.
With that said, Id like to point out one MAJOR plot hole to keep in mind for any fan edits of this movie, as perhaps some of you can come up with a creative solution to the problem, & once you know what it is, you probably will never look at it the same way again, if you could still watch it without thinking of one critical question....
OK, so at the end of the movie, Superman reveals to Lex Luthor that while he was recuperating, or in other words, after he was scratched & left dying before being saved yet again from the green crystal, that he figured out that since Nuclear Man was born from the sun, that had to be his source of energy. So he basically figures out that hes solar powered & must be cut off from the sun. So he comes up with this ever elaborate plan of setting up a "trap" with the elevator, where he will be risking yet again getting hurt or scratched by Nuclear Man, & taking the trapped Nuclear Man to the dark side of the moon.
OK, here's the question...
WHY THE HELL DIDNT SUPE JUST WAIT FOR NIGHT FALL?!?!?!? No, waiting till the sun went down, & going to Lex's lair to pick up an already de-powered Nuclear Man with NO risk of getting hurt again would be WAAAAY too easy!!!
Not to mention Nuclear Man clearly walking out of sunlight, & then being "flourescent light" powered, then "elevator light" powered, this plothole has caused WAY too many problems that just cant be ignored, so it is for this reason that in my future cut of this, I figured out how to make Nuclear Man NOT be solar powered, & we wont see his weakness within 30 seconds of first being introduced to him either. So if you other Superman fan editors can figure out how to fix this problem, that'd be great.
With that said, Id like to point out one MAJOR plot hole to keep in mind for any fan edits of this movie, as perhaps some of you can come up with a creative solution to the problem, & once you know what it is, you probably will never look at it the same way again, if you could still watch it without thinking of one critical question....
OK, so at the end of the movie, Superman reveals to Lex Luthor that while he was recuperating, or in other words, after he was scratched & left dying before being saved yet again from the green crystal, that he figured out that since Nuclear Man was born from the sun, that had to be his source of energy. So he basically figures out that hes solar powered & must be cut off from the sun. So he comes up with this ever elaborate plan of setting up a "trap" with the elevator, where he will be risking yet again getting hurt or scratched by Nuclear Man, & taking the trapped Nuclear Man to the dark side of the moon.
OK, here's the question...
WHY THE HELL DIDNT SUPE JUST WAIT FOR NIGHT FALL?!?!?!? No, waiting till the sun went down, & going to Lex's lair to pick up an already de-powered Nuclear Man with NO risk of getting hurt again would be WAAAAY too easy!!!
Not to mention Nuclear Man clearly walking out of sunlight, & then being "flourescent light" powered, then "elevator light" powered, this plothole has caused WAY too many problems that just cant be ignored, so it is for this reason that in my future cut of this, I figured out how to make Nuclear Man NOT be solar powered, & we wont see his weakness within 30 seconds of first being introduced to him either. So if you other Superman fan editors can figure out how to fix this problem, that'd be great.
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There are a number of problems in SM4. I'm not sure that making NM solar powered is necessarily the worst one, but I look forward to seeing your cut.
Clark
"Billy Batson"
Clark
"Billy Batson"
FantasyWorkshop
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Billy Batson said:
Oh yeah, LOTS of problems in four. Are you doing this from the DVD or Blu Ray? 1 reason I ask is, for you or anyone using the DVD, it wasnt until I started playing around with the footage in Sony Vegas that I realized that aside from all of the various plot/special fx problems, the actual look of the film stock/footage also had problems. The contrast & color saturation is SUPER low, so in just a few minutes you can improve the overall picture quality by simply increasing the contrast & color saturation to your liking, as I think they already did this for the Blu Ray. & on top of that, you can also add a slight warm gradient hue to actually make it LOOK more like film, & less like a made for TV movie. Pretty sad us fan editors have to do this on whats supposed to already be a theatrical release.
So play around with those, it makes a HUGE difference, almost to the point that the SD footage will look so good it will almost look HD.
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Billy Batson said:
New Mexico will never be solar powered no matter how much sun they get there.
tylerdurden389
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TV's Frink said:
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They had me up until the reveal. :x
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Billy Batson said:
:-?
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I've recently completed another cut of my SM4 edit, using the Blu-ray as source material and the Vegas editing suite. Zarius has kindly agreed to take another look at it, but if anyone else is interested in seeing it I would certainly appreciate any suggestions on additional improvements. It's a 4.3 gb file in 720 resolution.
Thanks,
Clark
"Billy Batson"
Thanks,
Clark
"Billy Batson"