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stereo vs surround, your views.

Wakeupkeo said:
I need to learn how to rebuild a 5.1 final when rescoring, that is my limiting factor now.

Starting with 5.1 is certainly key, but creating a quality final product that builds new 5.1 final, when I have center channel gaps for dialogue changes and stereo score replacement, keeps me releasing my edits in full 5.1.

Most of my audience never complains, but I know I need to step it up in this realm next.
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Nugen Halo 5.1 Upmix is an outstanding tool to create 5.1 surround out of stereo. It's a professional way to convert a music track to 5.1 without having to build multiple tracks by hand and do a manual lowpass on an LFE track. A huge time saver. It's also useful for converting deleted scenes from stereo to 5.1. In some cases it can automatically separate foley sounds of the deleted scene to the center and the music to the left and right.

Also for rescoring in 5.1 the center channel can be processed with noise reduction if necessary to help reduce the sound of the original score that is being removed. When people stop speaking and there is no foley, you can also mute that portion of the center track. Once you have a usable center channel you can apply a little ambience reverb to the center channel as as well as foley in any room ambience noise.

And finally, you don't need a surround setup to mix in 5.1. You can solo just the channels you want to hear to understand what's going on and edit accordingly.
 
I lack the expertise of folks like @Wraith when it comes to the technical aspects and rabbit holes of audio files, but I can definitely say that IF you have access to 5.1 (or more) then editing in 5.1 is vastly easier then stereo. As Wraith noted, the way 5.1 breaks things apart allows you to edit things that you would simply never ever be able to do with mono, 2.0 or 2.1 audio. I don't think a single one of my edits would have been possible without 5.1. Visual editing is fairly straightforward in most cases, but the key to any successful fanedit is basically hiding your audio transitions, and a 5.1 break-out of channels gives you an vastly improved array of options to attack a problem - rip with 5.1, import into your NLE as such with proper settings, mark each channel so you know if its center, left, right, surround left, surround right or LFE.. keep that straight, and then know how to export so that it's still properly 5.1 and you can make yourself a 5.1 edit. There will be trial and error and it will depend on the software you are using.

But for me the key is, more than caring about 5.1 as my output, 5.1 allows me to simply be a better editor. Fanediting with stereo is a major handicap.
 
krausfadr said:
Nugen Halo 5.1 Upmix is an outstanding tool to create 5.1 surround out of stereo. It's a professional way to convert a music track to 5.1 without having to build multiple tracks by hand and do a manual lowpass on an LFE track. A huge time saver. It's also useful for converting deleted scenes from stereo to 5.1. In some cases it can automatically separate foley sounds of the deleted scene to the center and the music to the left and right.

Also for rescoring in 5.1 the center channel can be processed with noise reduction if necessary to help reduce the sound of the original score that is being removed. When people stop speaking and there is no foley, you can also mute that portion of the center track. Once you have a usable center channel you can apply a little ambience reverb to the center channel as as well as foley in any room ambience noise.

And finally, you don't need a surround setup to mix in 5.1. You can solo just the channels you want to hear to understand what's going on and edit accordingly.
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Thanks @krausfadr !

This is awesome, and now I have no excuse to NOT make my next release 5.1. I can also run my past edits edits through this exercise with the original 5.1 editing result I had, as I am probably pretty close in most past cases (Since I always edit in 5.1)

Now I have plenty of work ahead for the winter! My machine will certainly be keeping me warm!
 
Wakeupkeo said:
Thanks @krausfadr !

This is awesome, and now I have no excuse to NOT make my next release 5.1. I can also run my past edits edits through this exercise with the original 5.1 editing result I had, as I am probably pretty close in most past cases (Since I always edit in 5.1)

Now I have plenty of work ahead for the winter! My machine will certainly be keeping me warm!
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and the power bill!
 
I have never edited in surround sound, primary because I don't have a surround system. I just don't see the point of trying to edit in 5.1, when I'm listening back on headphones and then when I watch the edit on my main TV it's through a stereo soundbar.

Even when I have lots of sound replacement going on, I will still edit in stereo only.
 
I always use surround sources to edit, and since I have a surround setup at home it's a lot of fun mixing stuff. I've never had an issue playing my work on other stereo setups.
 
Gieferg said:
Re-scoring is impossible in stereo.
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It's definitely not. I've rescored mono tracks (and LS's rescoring on Phase IV is excellent). But it certainly makes your job a lot harder, and you will have to compromise with dialogue scenes.
 
LastSurvivor said:
I have never edited in surround sound, primary because I don't have a surround system. I just don't see the point of trying to edit in 5.1, when I'm listening back on headphones and then when I watch the edit on my main TV it's through a stereo soundbar.

Even when I have lots of sound replacement going on, I will still edit in stereo only.
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Fair enough! :)
Each editor's method of workflow is a dance only they can do the same.

I used to edit in stereo, but have found that editing with a 5.1 source simply makes making cuts easier. For example, I can usually make a very tight cut with the dialogue on the center channel, and cut the rest of the channels for a more subtle and longer transitions with the scoring. Sometimes even with the flexibility to move that score cut up a few frames ahead, or behind to match beats or tonal qualities better without being limited to the dialogue choices. This has opened up a lot more options to refine scripts that I otherwise would have been stuck with.

And only two audio tracks to work with: a Center Channel track and another track for all the rest of the channels, so my timeline doesn't get wild.

But learning to refoley and rescore has been a brutal, as new audio that lands great on one output often doesn't sound the same on the other without bit of love. So now I review edits on both Stereo and 5.1 systems, as I know viewers will have both.
 
Gieferg said:
Re-scoring is impossible in stereo.
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I'd have to disagree with this. I've done this by rebuilding the entire finale of Halloween H20 with all new sound effects, just so I could use different music for the final chase. All in stereo ;) Oh, and I did an entire rescore for my Phase IV - The Evolution Cut.
 
It was more like a metaphor/exaggeration which reads like "Impossible unless you're ready to spend many hours on rebuilding whole soundtrack". And yeah Ive also done that in JLG edit for Flash big scene at the end because there were music playing loud in central channel the whole time. But trying to re-score whole movie that way, well... I'm not gonna do it.
 
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AnnualYawningLaughingthrush-size_restricted.gif


Obi Wan is a Sith confirmed.
 
I meant to say I never never make absolute statements

EDIT: I knew the Obiwan quote was coming
 
So far, I have limited my edits to stereo only due to the footage I am using. Like others here, I do not have 5.1 equipment to test any edits that I would do in 5.1. In some of my edits, I have used stereo clips, which hasn't worked well with the 5.1 audio. As I continue to evolve as an editor, I plan on looking at surround sound as an option, but until I feel more comfortable with releasing a certain level of quality, I will continue to stick with stereo.
 
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