Star Wars - Episode III: Dawn of the Empire by L8wrtr

[theforce]

The "Cutter/L8wrtr" hybrid is a project that njvc proposed as a joint edit on his and my part. We both worked on it for a time, and even got clearance from The Cutter to use some of his audio if I recall, however ultimately as we worked on it, we lost passion for the project as while his ideas worked fantastic in concept, we ultimately weren't happy with how it was coming out.

I suppose that this revision is really born of the ashes of that project. Ultimately what njvc did was take the spirit of some of his ideas and incorporate them into my edit but without strictly adhering to The Cutter's examples, and also, without trying to incorporate The Cutter's compositions. This expanded to a few nip-tucks that njvc wanted to see of his own as well as incorporating some touches from Hal's edits that he liked.

I do hope that The Cutter does complete his edit someday however, he had bold ideas and it would be a treat to see how they all come together, and would be an Episode 3 edit unlike any other.

Cool, It would be great to see it once its competed

L8wtr, here is some feedback for your EP 3 cut:

1. The removal of the title of Darth in my opinion wasn't necessary because "Darth" is a variation of "dark". But from your commentary I understood why you did it and it makes sense that Darth Vadar is unique and the Title Darth doesn't get watered down.
2. The scene of Anakin discussing his dream with Yoda, I felt didn't need to be fully trimmed because this dialogue specifically was good:

YODA: Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side.
ANAKIN: I won’t let these visions come true, Master Yoda.
YODA: Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is.
ANAKIN: What must I do, Master Yoda?
YODA: Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.

Greed, of course, is the main driving force behind Anakin’s turn to the dark side. He becomes Darth Vader “because he gets attached to things,” says Lucas. “He can’t let go of his mother … his girlfriend … things. It makes you greedy. And when you’re greedy, you are on the path to the dark side because you fear that you’re going to lose things. You fear you’re not going to have
the power you need.”

3. Padme's line "there's still good in him" would have been cool to keep as it parallels Luke's line about Vader as he says the same thing.

4. Maybe the birth of Darth Vadar could have been extended up until the famous "nooooo", meaning cut to the next scene before he says no...but I do like njvc's alternate take...that's cool too.

All three episodes were wonderful to watch.

 

[TV's Frink]

The AVCHD of this edit is once again available on MEGA via info.

 

[repkyle]

i hope you reconsider keeping padme alive, she died. wouldn't that go against creating something new you stated earlier? yes in jedi leia says she remembers her mother barely, you could just assume that is from the force. i'm a fan of just about everything else, except cutting the yoda/obi/youngling scene in ep 2, thought yoda showed that playful side we see in empire at the beginning and had a good exchange.

 

[addiesin]

The edit's been done for like five years so...

 

[repkyle]

Might wanna read the post, he was talking about a new version and asking for suggestions all in the last year so...

 

[addiesin]

Might wanna read the post, he was talking about a new version and asking for suggestions all in the last year so...

Where exactly does he ask for suggestions?

Check your attitude.

 

[TV's Frink]

i hope you reconsider keeping padme alive, she died.

 

[L8wrtr]

i hope you reconsider keeping padme alive, she died. wouldn't that go against creating something new you stated earlier? yes in jedi leia says she remembers her mother barely, you could just assume that is from the force. i'm a fan of just about everything else, except cutting the yoda/obi/youngling scene in ep 2, thought yoda showed that playful side we see in empire at the beginning and had a good exchange.

Thank you for even being interested in this old edit. I've received a few private messages that people still enjoy it, so that is always a wonderful compliment. 

Well, while it has been a full year since 'announcing' that the hood was open on Dawn of the Empire, very little has happened, but it's not a dead project.. just slow in development. For me, editing a Star Wars film, more than any other, is a very delicate balance. While I always want the final product to be well-received, ultimately I am editing these to make them what I need them be; to align as closely with how I experienced the Original Trilogy. In 1983 things like Leia saying she remembers her mother didn't require any special assumptions about the Force.. we knew she was adopted by the Organa's, we hear her say she remembers her (and by extension Luke's) mother, but only in brief images. We all have those early memories that are just flashes, typically in the 2-4 year old range. It's a fairly common human trait that we can assume the humans of Star Wars would share. So from the age of 11, in my brain, that is simple fact; the twins' mom lived at least a few years, 2-4, after they were born. For me, to now have to go back and assume that this was Force-enabled is actually what I would consider introducing something 'new' into the mechanics of how the universe works in the Saga. Restoring the narrative established in the OT preserves the mechanics set forth in the OT. Again, editing is a very personal journey where we are taking the time to craft something we want, heck, I'd say need to see happen.

While having her die at the end of E3 helped Lucas achieve the 'everything's at stake' ending he loves, it was clearly a retcon of the fragmented backstory that the OT gave us. Having her die in E3 was tragic in terms of THAT movie, even that trilogy, but in terms of the entire saga it created what I like to refer to as an unforced error, where the screenwriter unnecessarily creates an incongruence in the narrative in order to gain a momentary impact, but at the expense of cohesion, logic and continuity and forces us to create a new scenario that lines up events between two different points in a story (in this case films).  As reference, I also look at the final moments of Rogue One in that manner, there was no reason to create that incongruity that forces us to create explanations in our head to reconcile the lack of connection between the two films.

So my apologies for the long winded response (though it is my way after all) but one of the main reasons for opening the hood on this edit is to 'fix' that specific issue in a way that I find satisfying. While I really love the ending as I originally constructed it (I feel the emotional counterbalances of her final breath and Vader's first mechanized breath is powerful), it was a compromise because keeping Padme alive was something I really wanted to do when I made the first edit because it was one of the most egregious errors of George's retconning but I hadn't seen anyone else do that ending convincingly and didn't know how to achieve, but now we have some very good examples by other editors. 

In the end, once I actually work on it, maybe I won't be satisfied with how it all comes together, if so I'd keep her dying, but for now, once I finally really get this ball rolling, this is the driving reason for even revisiting this project. Also, I know that there are many out there who truly enjoy my edits as they are, so if I do complete this project, I very well may entertain the notion of two versions, one that has improvements but keeps her death, and one that has her surviving. If I could do seemless branching, that might also be a solution, but I've never tried that and all reports so far are that commercial software just doesn't do that well enough. But time will tell. 

In the meantime, something else is in the works. 

MTFBWY

 

[SkywalkerFan01]

In the meantime, something else is in the works. 

[img=350x425]

 

[repkyle]

Might wanna read the post, he was talking about a new version and asking for suggestions all in the last year so...

Where exactly does he ask for suggestions?

Check your attitude.

classic. insult someone with your so... comment when you clearly didn't read, and then accuse the person of correcting you with attitude. you really put the "super" in moderator;0

 

[repkyle]

i hope you reconsider keeping padme alive, she died. wouldn't that go against creating something new you stated earlier? yes in jedi leia says she remembers her mother barely, you could just assume that is from the force. i'm a fan of just about everything else, except cutting the yoda/obi/youngling scene in ep 2, thought yoda showed that playful side we see in empire at the beginning and had a good exchange.

Thank you for even being interested in this old edit. I've received a few private messages that people still enjoy it, so that is always a wonderful compliment. 

Well, while it has been a full year since 'announcing' that the hood was open on Dawn of the Empire, very little has happened, but it's not a dead project.. just slow in development. For me, editing a Star Wars film, more than any other, is a very delicate balance. While I always want the final product to be well-received, ultimately I am editing these to make them what I need them be; to align as closely with how I experienced the Original Trilogy. In 1983 things like Leia saying she remembers her mother didn't require any special assumptions about the Force.. we knew she was adopted by the Organa's, we hear her say she remembers her (and by extension Luke's) mother, but only in brief images. We all have those early memories that are just flashes, typically in the 2-4 year old range. It's a fairly common human trait that we can assume the humans of Star Wars would share. So from the age of 11, in my brain, that is simple fact; the twins' mom lived at least a few years, 2-4, after they were born. For me, to now have to go back and assume that this was Force-enabled is actually what I would consider introducing something 'new' into the mechanics of how the universe works in the Saga. Restoring the narrative established in the OT preserves the mechanics set forth in the OT. Again, editing is a very personal journey where we are taking the time to craft something we want, heck, I'd say need to see happen.

While having her die at the end of E3 helped Lucas achieve the 'everything's at stake' ending he loves, it was clearly a retcon of the fragmented backstory that the OT gave us. Having her die in E3 was tragic in terms of THAT movie, even that trilogy, but in terms of the entire saga it created what I like to refer to as an unforced error, where the screenwriter unnecessarily creates an incongruence in the narrative in order to gain a momentary impact, but at the expense of cohesion, logic and continuity and forces us to create a new scenario that lines up events between two different points in a story (in this case films).  As reference, I also look at the final moments of Rogue One in that manner, there was no reason to create that incongruity that forces us to create explanations in our head to reconcile the lack of connection between the two films.

So my apologies for the long winded response (though it is my way after all) but one of the main reasons for opening the hood on this edit is to 'fix' that specific issue in a way that I find satisfying. While I really love the ending as I originally constructed it (I feel the emotional counterbalances of her final breath and Vader's first mechanized breath is powerful), it was a compromise because keeping Padme alive was something I really wanted to do when I made the first edit because it was one of the most egregious errors of George's retconning but I hadn't seen anyone else do that ending convincingly and didn't know how to achieve, but now we have some very good examples by other editors. 

In the end, once I actually work on it, maybe I won't be satisfied with how it all comes together, if so I'd keep her dying, but for now, once I finally really get this ball rolling, this is the driving reason for even revisiting this project. Also, I know that there are many out there who truly enjoy my edits as they are, so if I do complete this project, I very well may entertain the notion of two versions, one that has improvements but keeps her death, and one that has her surviving. If I could do seemless branching, that might also be a solution, but I've never tried that and all reports so far are that commercial software just doesn't do that well enough. But time will tell. 

In the meantime, something else is in the works. 

MTFBWY

great and interesting point of view man, thanks for taking the time. my line of thought was that leia always seemed to be strong in the force and more aware of it than luke was, having intuition and such, thus her "memories" were of the force, perhaps even of the past who knows. and since padme died, this was the only thing that ever made sense to me. how could she remember someone who only held her for a moment other than the force? but yeh i feel you, there are things i'd liek to see done to different films that is all personal preference. thanks for all the hard work.

 

[addiesin]

...

I deleted your other post and issued a warning. Keep it civil here.

 

[repkyle]

...

I deleted your other post and issued a warning. Keep it civil here.

yes boss

 

[EddieDean]

L8wrtr, what changes are you thinking of making, on top of your existing edits?

 

[darthrush]

i hope you reconsider keeping padme alive, she died. wouldn't that go against creating something new you stated earlier? yes in jedi leia says she remembers her mother barely, you could just assume that is from the force. i'm a fan of just about everything else, except cutting the yoda/obi/youngling scene in ep 2, thought yoda showed that playful side we see in empire at the beginning and had a good exchange.

Thank you for even being interested in this old edit. I've received a few private messages that people still enjoy it, so that is always a wonderful compliment. 

Well, while it has been a full year since 'announcing' that the hood was open on Dawn of the Empire, very little has happened, but it's not a dead project.. just slow in development. For me, editing a Star Wars film, more than any other, is a very delicate balance. While I always want the final product to be well-received, ultimately I am editing these to make them what I need them be; to align as closely with how I experienced the Original Trilogy. In 1983 things like Leia saying she remembers her mother didn't require any special assumptions about the Force.. we knew she was adopted by the Organa's, we hear her say she remembers her (and by extension Luke's) mother, but only in brief images. We all have those early memories that are just flashes, typically in the 2-4 year old range. It's a fairly common human trait that we can assume the humans of Star Wars would share. So from the age of 11, in my brain, that is simple fact; the twins' mom lived at least a few years, 2-4, after they were born. For me, to now have to go back and assume that this was Force-enabled is actually what I would consider introducing something 'new' into the mechanics of how the universe works in the Saga. Restoring the narrative established in the OT preserves the mechanics set forth in the OT. Again, editing is a very personal journey where we are taking the time to craft something we want, heck, I'd say need to see happen.

While having her die at the end of E3 helped Lucas achieve the 'everything's at stake' ending he loves, it was clearly a retcon of the fragmented backstory that the OT gave us. Having her die in E3 was tragic in terms of THAT movie, even that trilogy, but in terms of the entire saga it created what I like to refer to as an unforced error, where the screenwriter unnecessarily creates an incongruence in the narrative in order to gain a momentary impact, but at the expense of cohesion, logic and continuity and forces us to create a new scenario that lines up events between two different points in a story (in this case films).  As reference, I also look at the final moments of Rogue One in that manner, there was no reason to create that incongruity that forces us to create explanations in our head to reconcile the lack of connection between the two films.

So my apologies for the long winded response (though it is my way after all) but one of the main reasons for opening the hood on this edit is to 'fix' that specific issue in a way that I find satisfying. While I really love the ending as I originally constructed it (I feel the emotional counterbalances of her final breath and Vader's first mechanized breath is powerful), it was a compromise because keeping Padme alive was something I really wanted to do when I made the first edit because it was one of the most egregious errors of George's retconning but I hadn't seen anyone else do that ending convincingly and didn't know how to achieve, but now we have some very good examples by other editors. 

In the end, once I actually work on it, maybe I won't be satisfied with how it all comes together, if so I'd keep her dying, but for now, once I finally really get this ball rolling, this is the driving reason for even revisiting this project. Also, I know that there are many out there who truly enjoy my edits as they are, so if I do complete this project, I very well may entertain the notion of two versions, one that has improvements but keeps her death, and one that has her surviving. If I could do seemless branching, that might also be a solution, but I've never tried that and all reports so far are that commercial software just doesn't do that well enough. But time will tell. 

In the meantime, something else is in the works. 

MTFBWY

Just came across this thread and I wanted to say that I actually like that Padme dies. Your analogy to the Rogue One ending is spot on. I would never get rid of or change the Rogue One ending cause it's so awesome and I'm willing to sacrifice a little continuity for it. Same with Revenge of the Sith. The irony of Anakin destroying who he was originally trying to save is really powerful. And like you mentioned, the moment of her last breath and Vader's first breath is really neat too. All in all, good luck with the v2 

 

[SkywalkerFan01]

As far as Padme dying goes, I do believe she should die since I've always felt it adds to the tragedy of Anakin/Vader and I love the irony of him trying to save and protect her being what drove him to the dark and ultimately her death. Plus, I love a good Shakespearean style tragedy in film. 

Since it seems that you're continuing work on this edit I would like to make some suggestions.
 If you do end up keeping Padme dead, I think it would be interesting if we end on Vader and Palps observing the construction of the Death Star and roll credits there instead of on Tatooine. I know this might create a problem with the credits music but I think there has to be a way around it, like maybe not using the same credits music at the beginning. I know this sounds a bit radical but since RotS was supposed to be the darkest of the films (at least for the prequels) I think it makes sense to have a somber ending and gives the audience a sign of the 20 year darkness that awaits the galaxy. I also believe that a somber ending for RotS makes the "Hope" in ANH more potent (or poignant, forgot what word to use) since their victory is that much more important.

Also, this one I believe is a little more of an editing challenge but I've always hated the idea of Yoda having a lightsaber (personal opinion) and thought it would be interesting if the Voda/Palps fight could be made to look like a "force battle" (no lightsabers).

This edit is incredible as is and if nothing changes I would still be happy with the edit, but since it seems you're still working on it I thought I'd give my two cents.

 

[L8wrtr]

As far as Padme dying goes, I do believe she should die since I've always felt it adds to the tragedy of Anakin/Vader and I love the irony of him trying to save and protect her being what drove him to the dark and ultimately her death. Plus, I love a good Shakespearean style tragedy in film. 

Since it seems that you're continuing work on this edit I would like to make some suggestions.
 If you do end up keeping Padme dead, I think it would be interesting if we end on Vader and Palps observing the construction of the Death Star and roll credits there instead of on Tatooine. I know this might create a problem with the credits music but I think there has to be a way around it, like maybe not using the same credits music at the beginning. I know this sounds a bit radical but since RotS was supposed to be the darkest of the films (at least for the prequels) I think it makes sense to have a somber ending and gives the audience a sign of the 20 year darkness that awaits the galaxy. I also believe that a somber ending for RotS makes the "Hope" in ANH more potent (or poignant, forgot what word to use) since their victory is that much more important.

Also, this one I believe is a little more of an editing challenge but I've always hated the idea of Yoda having a lightsaber (personal opinion) and thought it would be interesting if the Voda/Palps fight could be made to look like a "force battle" (no lightsabers).

This edit is incredible as is and if nothing changes I would still be happy with the edit, but since it seems you're still working on it I thought I'd give my two cents.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions @"SkywalkerFan01" and @"darthrush". It's interesting how preferences ebb and flow. If I recall, Padme dying was a point of contention for many reviewers who felt she should live. The question of keeping her alive or dead at the end of the film speaks to continuity vs impact, long-term quality or immediate gratification. 

I absolutely love the way the current ending flows, it's sad and poignant and has what I consider an almost lyrical quality to it. It flows far better than the theatrical, so it's not stretch to say I'm tied to it and want to keep it, and I absolutely feel that when looking at the PT in isolation, having her die at the end is impactful. In the original drafts of the edit I also played around with the shot of Palpatine and Vader on the bridge overlooking the Death Star as the final shot before the fanfare and wipe, but the crash of the fanfare absolutely didn't line up, but technically, and tonally. However, if you've seen Shadow of the Sith you'll know I'm not opposed/above changing the iconic close if the payoff is good enough. 

Whatever I end up doing with DotE as well as SotS and TRD, there are no commitments at this point in time. I have an ambitious agenda for 2017 which includes not just revamping the L8wrtr PT, but also HD upgrades for Son of Jor-El and Large's Ark, as well as at least three new edits, with a few more under consideration. Currently new projects are a higher priority than revisiting the old ones so progress will be slow on those. I'll also probably formally start up new ITW threads once I've actually started work on these.

In the mean-time however, don't hesitate to offer opinions about the edit as it currently stands. I make ZERO promises that they'll be incorporated, but it would be foolish to not take suggestions into consideration!

 

[DominicCobb]

I tend to believe that anyone who feels the need to watch edited versions of the prequels will never be truly 100% satisfied with those edits unless they do one for themselves - there's just too much that comes down to personal preference.

I completely get the desire to want to keep continuity with the OT. But I think there's a give and take. Personally, I think if we're changing the films, why not change ROTJ (especially since it's already in the need for some changing)? In my mind it's a question of sacrificing one or the other. Padme's death in ROTS, or that small bit of dialogue in ROTJ. For me, there's no question what the solution should be: remove the line in ROTJ. It's of relatively little consequence, while Padme's death is, I believe, essential to the conclusion of the story told in ROTS.

 

[L8wrtr]

I tend to believe that anyone who feels the need to watch edited versions of the prequels will never be truly 100% satisfied with those edits unless they do one for themselves - there's just too much that comes down to personal preference.

I completely get the desire to want to keep continuity with the OT. But I think there's a give and take. Personally, I think if we're changing the films, why not change ROTJ (especially since it's already in the need for some changing)? In my mind it's a question of sacrificing one or the other. Padme's death in ROTS, or that small bit of dialogue in ROTJ. For me, there's no question what the solution should be: remove the line in ROTJ. It's of relatively little consequence, while Padme's death is, I believe, essential to the conclusion of the story told in ROTS.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your sharing that sentiment, and I actually couldn't agree with you more. It is funny. When I first got into fanediting, that was actually something I considered, editing Jedi to match Sith (or DotE), but somewhere between then and now I shifted into a perspective that you don't really edit the holy trinity, in particular to bend them to the PT.. so now the mantra of bend the PT to meet the OT became something I no longer questioned.. I can't say you've convinced me.. but I love my original ending so it's easy to look for reasons to keep it .. 

And I really can't agree with you more about the only perfect PT edit is one that you make yourself. It is 100% the reason I made my own. No edit came close to what I needed it to be. Sure I opened it up to vigorous discussion on how to handle things, opinions on different editing options.. but always that collaborative approach resulted in me making a choice about the edit, even if it was to go with an idea that I had to be convinced, I made the choice to do it. With something so personal as how a person grew up with SW, and what it meant to them, watching anyone else's edit is always going to be some form of a compromise in my opinion. I am probably re-stating myself from somewhere on this site, but I've always held that the reason for the fact there will always be a new edit being made of the PT is that so manny of us grew up so intimately with Star Wars, it means something specific and unique to each of us, and those of us that thought about the mythos created, then all wondered what happened before? We all had access to, and had memorized the fragmented lore of the time before the events of Episode IV.. we each developed our own theories, created our own possible ways to tie the information together..  and so when each of us watched TPM, we were each disappointed in a simultaneously common and unique way.. we all saw the same shit, the same flaws, that was a communal misery.. but at the same time each of us had our own unique sense of what was lost.. what opportunities had been missed.. we each had dreamed of a possible back story that unique and specific, and in the bottom of all our hearts, was better than what we got, for a million different reasons. Lucas really had an impossible task before him, but it's shocking just how far short he fell.

 

[ssj]

the prequels = faneditor's Rorschach, whatchu sayin'.