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Star Wars Episode II: Path to the Darkside - The Diamond Cut

rmfii said:
My kids want to watch Star Wars for the first time . . .

If I'm going to ditch that much of the movie, I could show them the Phantom Editor's version (38 minutes cut) -- which I already have --

So, wait. If your kids are going to be watching Star Wars for the first time, how could you have already showed them the Phantom Editor's version of that same movie?

I'm so confused. :)

rmfii said:
I liked Diamond Wan's more careful approach to trimming dialogue and "junk" while preserving most of the movie (16 minutes cut).

That's a fascinating take on it. I've been thinking about which one of the fan edited prequels I want to watch, and I'm looking for the ones that have the most cut out. :) To my mind, so much of those movies are completely worthless* that I want to skip as much as possible to see if there's anything there worth saving.

Of course, I'm just sharing an opinion. You can feel free to watch whichever version you want with your kids. :)
 
TomH1138 said:
So, wait. If your kids are going to be watching Star Wars for the first time, how could you have already showed them the Phantom Editor's version of that same movie?

I'm so confused. :)

Maybe rmfii used one of those memory eraser thingy's???
mib-memory-eraser.jpg
 
Ah! I get it now. No, it wasn't an MIB memory eraser. Rmfii took them to Capt. Antilles to have their minds wiped along with C-3PO's. :p

And, yes, don't worry, Rouge. Yours is definitely on my list. :)
 
I think he meant he already has the edit.
 
TV's Frink said:
I think he meant he already has the edit.

Yes, exactly. I have a copy of the Phantom Editor's take on Episode 2, but I was a bit alarmed by how much of the movie he cut. I mean, I'm trying to give my kids the "true" Star Wars experience to the fullest extent possible, but without it being so bad that they wonder why anyone even cares about the franchise. I have the Blu-Rays for the whole set, but I can't bring myself to show them the original Ep1 and Ep2, even in HD. (Gads, those movies were awful.) Thus my efforts to get one of the "fuller" cuts.

BTW, I'd just like to add that I think it's AWESOME that there's a whole community of fan editors dedicated to fixing problems in iconic movies. Before The Phantom Edit, there was just no recourse for a bad movie that ruins a franchise -- you just had to try to somehow forget it. (Highlander II springs to mind....maybe I should look that one up here too.)
 
rmfii said:
I mean, I'm trying to give my kids the "true" Star Wars experience to the fullest extent possible...

So skip the PT.
 
Neglify said:
So skip the PT.

Tell them George Lucas died in 1983 and nothing was ever created in the Star Wars universe after that. NOTHING.
 
rmfii said:
Yes, exactly. I have a copy of the Phantom Editor's take on Episode 2, but I was a bit alarmed by how much of the movie he cut. I mean, I'm trying to give my kids the "true" Star Wars experience to the fullest extent possible, but without it being so bad that they wonder why anyone even cares about the franchise. I have the Blu-Rays for the whole set, but I can't bring myself to show them the original Ep1 and Ep2, even in HD. (Gads, those movies were awful.) Thus my efforts to get one of the "fuller" cuts.

BTW, I'd just like to add that I think it's AWESOME that there's a whole community of fan editors dedicated to fixing problems in iconic movies. Before The Phantom Edit, there was just no recourse for a bad movie that ruins a franchise -- you just had to try to somehow forget it. (Highlander II springs to mind....maybe I should look that one up here too.)

I totally see where you're coming from. As someone who grew up with both trilogies, I can say showing the theatricals to your kids wouldn't run the risk of having them hate Star Wars, but I agree a fan edit is the way to go. And I totally understand picking a more conservative edit. It's the movie, but without all the cringeworthy stuff. Though I would say to watch some of the shorter edits for yourself because some are really good. And I really think you should show your kids the original trilogy first. I can say that it has always been a point of pride for me to be able to say that I was a hard core OT fan years before I ever knew what a prequel even was. My friends were introduced to SW through the PT and I've always felt bad for them.

Anyways, good luck!
 
I agree with barely being able to watch the prequel trilogy , sometimes even in fan edited form. In my opinion it was easily the weakest of the Prequel films (I know many say Ep. 1 - I disagree as Ep 2 had very little solid plot running through it, and no, lightsabers and ships flying around are not plot LOL). I based my edit on Adigitalmans version. His edits were the first fan films I ever watched, and I really enjoyed them compared to the official releases. But he was relatively conservative with his edits, so over time, I still found too many annoying elements left within. I investigated other fan edits. And I realized no episode 2 would work - either too many annoying elements were left within, the quality of image was too poor, it was not in 5.1 or, had a crawl that referred to the edit and not the story (a major blunder in my opinion, as the crawl is as much of a Star Wars movie as any other scene). So I made mine.

As far as judging fan edits, of course there is no perfect edit, as the source material they all come is highly flawed. I have seen fan edits that were far too long, and some that were so gutted, the major plot through line was barely present anymore. I hope mine rests somewhere in the middle. There are still some possibly annoying elements present -yes, R2 and Threepio could have been left on the ship, but I kept them in to keep it closer to the director's original vision of adding perceived humor (which 5-12 year olds will enjoy watching c3po falling down and his line, but I would not let any small child witness the horrendous head switch, flying around, etc.) I own the Blu Rays, and I will NEVER AGAIN watch the theatrical versions of Ep. 1-3.

Again, unfortunately we fan editors are stuck with pretty much the same source material - the theatrical edits plus the deleted scenes from the dvd (which unfortunately for us were never released in hi def). So there is only so much that can be done. I have wondered what the fan community could achieve if we "magically" acquired all of the raw footage shot for the prequels in hi-def. Every line. Every alternative angle. Every outtake. A much stronger trilogy could be made out of that.

But then again, the basic premise and execution of the prequels is very flawed. I would have started the first movie with Anakin as a teenager and kept the majority of the 3 movies in the Ep. 2-3 time frame and really given the characters time to develop while filling in back story with a few flashbacks/references. Cut to the chase: Anakin grew up as a slave. And as a teen he escaped his captors after his mother died due to poor treatment. How did he escape? You find out he killed them as his raw anger is what helped him to survive. And later that will be his undoing. No Jar Jar, no small blue aliens saying random annoying jibberish, more immersion in what the Jedi do (not sit around in council all the time), a more realistic relationship between Padme and Anakin, less un-necessary politics, and Darth Sideous would be the bad-ass he is supposed to be - a 1000 year old sith lord that truly looks like he did in Return of the Jedi, and only masks himself with youth using Dark Side powers. (I hope Bob Garcia forges ahead with his transformation of the Emperor reveal in his edit - it will be great). Of course, I won't even mention the Midichlorian crap and all of the other elements that are usually completely cut out of 95% of SW fan edits.

Ahhh....the dreams of a fan editor....


Oh, and what happened to my edit?!?!?!? ;)
 
Good thoughts, Diamond Wan!

I agree that, to some degree, the prequels can never be fully saved because of the source material. Lucas wasted so much time telling things that we didn't need to know (or telling them poorly). Here's what we get from the prequels:

Ep. I: Anakin meets Padme. Anakin meets Obi-Wan. Those are the only two important plot points in the entire first movie. And arguably, the second one didn't even need to be shown. If the story started with Obi-Wan already training Anakin, I don't think anyone would have questioned it.

Ep. II: Anakin has gone from being a cute kid to being annoying and evil all the time, not even showing the slightest bit of being able to be redeemed. That's right, folks - Anakin fell to the dark side of the Force between episodes I and II, and we never got to see it. His fall is what the whole trilogy is supposed to be about, and it took place offscreen.

So, anyway, Anakin and Padme get married, even though it's against the Jedi Order, which makes no sense because Lucas introduced the idea of the Force sense being passed along biologically via the midichlorians, and then had the Jedi do the opposite of what makes sense to keep the Jedi community growing.

There's a brief mention of the Jedi losing all their powers, and I guess that's why they can't sense Palpatine. Again, one of the most important pieces of the whole story, and it's dismissed with a throwaway line of dialogue.

Also, the Clone Wars begin.

Ep. III: The Clone Wars end, without us ever really getting a chance to see them. (Yes, there's the cartoon now, but what difference does the cartoon make? We already know who lives and who dies, and the ultimate outcome of the war. It could be handled in an interesting way, but it's not.)

Despite the huge buildup about Anakin and Padme's marriage, Lucas dismisses the whole thing with another throwaway line of dialogue from Obi-Wan about how he knows but apparently doesn't care, thus rendering most of Ep. II meaningless.

Anakin implausibly becomes Darth Vader, never once becoming the believable, regal, cool-as-ice James Earl Jones persona that we knew him to be. He's whiny to the end. He couldn't rule as an elementary school crossing guard, let alone as the believable strong arm of the galaxy.

Then, because Lucas has wasted so much time with things we never needed to know or see, he shoves in an inexplicable line from Yoda about Qui-Gon coming back from the dead that doesn't actually explain anything.

The end.

Do you get the impression that I don't like the prequels? :p

At any rate, although there will never be any perfect version, that just means that everyone in the fan-editing community can take a slightly different approach. And each time that we choose to watch the prequels, we can watch a different cut and see what we think of it! :)
 
Diamond Wan said:
the director's original vision
But he doesn't respect that, why should we? ;)
 
Diamond Wan said:
Oh, and what happened to my edit?!?!?!? ;)

I'm still waiting EAGERLY for it to become available again! My boys are badgering me to watch Episode II...
 
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