Hobbit: The Desolation of Superfluous Narrative by Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins

[emanswfan]

I like how you managed to cut out all the orcs, but I feel much of the music editing needs some work (visually most of rhe cuts work completely seemless, though the falling through the open gate into the rapids confuses me) really just from around 1:36 thru 1:41. Otherwise, great job editing!

 

[TM2YC]

As others have said the audio/music needs some work but the visual editing is pretty solid. Visual jumpcuts are fine if used right but the one at 2.07 isn't working because the audio jumps too. You need a super smooth audio transition to carry the viewer over the jump in time. Find a little piece from the soundtrack to put there. Kind of a musical full stop. It's difficult to describe in words :x but search around all the endings of each track for the right kind of tone.

A few shots around 1.45 aren't working too well. The Dwarves get to and then get past that bridge bit waaay too fast and then in a couple of shots it's too obvious that they suddenly have swords. Just trim those bits out.

Personally I hated all those hand-held "looks like they were filmed on an iPhone shots" that PJ put in there for some reason that probably only he understands. They stand out like a sore thumb but you can't cut everything I suppose.

 

[emanswfan]

Personally I hated all those hand-held "looks like they were filmed on an iPhone shots" that PJ put in there for some reason that probably only he understands. They stand out like a sore thumb but you can't cut everything I suppose.

They showed those shots because PJ thought they were immersive according to the EE bonus features. And they were shot on GoPro Hero 2 in amazing 720p! Really holds up well against the 5K of the Red Epic.

 

[MackerelSkyLtd]

The more I watch the scene the dumber it gets. How are those barrels not filled with water by the end? Does Peter Jackson need someone to explain buoyancy to him?

Your edit cleans a lot of that up, but the underlying problems are still there.

It reminds me of one of the dumbest bits in The Two Towers, where Aragorn goes sleep-swimming in full ring mail, and somehow doesn't drown because the power of romance subplots is stronger.

 

[emanswfan]

The more I watch the scene the dumber it gets. How are those barrels not filled with water by the end? Does Peter Jackson need someone to explain buoyancy to him?

Funny part also in the EE bonus features shows that they modified the buoyancy (or weight distribution) of the barrels for the various live action shots they did because otherwise they would get filled with water and sink along with the actors being to easily able to drown, especially if they went upside down. So I guess PJ knew what mistakes he was making.

Scary part though is fact that the barrel sequence is heavily influenced from a cut scene (written in the script but not shot) in FOTR when the Orcs attack the fellowship from the sides of the river while they are in their boats and also includes some Legolas craziness.

 

[Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins]

Agh! all of what you just wrote kinda makes me ill. The way so may things were done for these movies just makes me scratch my head. Like it was stated though, I can only cut so much, if I take out the go pro shots it will be too short of a sequence and the flow of the movie will be weird.

I'll go back and try to take out the shot with the weapon, At least they don't have the weapons at the end when they climb out of the barrels.

Too bad they didn't have the new gopro hero 4, those cameras have much better specs. the 3's even are waaaay better than the 2's

 

[kellenpure]

Don't be overwhelmed - accept the limitations. The barrels should sink, of course, but what movie out of Hollywood these days isn't loaded with suspended belief? Compared to what you are removing (a guy in a barrel rolling along the ground and taking out 20 orcs), accepting that the barrels somehow stay afloat is not such a stretch. Even for the book - the dwarves were somehow sealed inside tight enough that no water came in and sunk the barrels? It is fantasy after all. I'm just looking for reasonable, non-arcade action in these movies, not a physics test.

In terms of editing, my one comment was the same, the shot before and after going under the bridge don't feel right, like an overreaction (Bombur?) just before the bridge that makes you feel like there should have been something else. Clip out that maybe.

 

[TM2YC]

Even for the book - the dwarves were somehow sealed inside tight enough that no water came in and sunk the barrels? It is fantasy after all. I'm just looking for reasonable, non-arcade action in these movies, not a physics test.

It's a while since I read it but I thought the Dwarves barely being able to breath was part of it and also they were bruised and battered (They initially get cross with Bilbo afterwards) so it made sense on the page, I think

In terms of editing, my one comment was the same, the shot before and after going under the bridge don't feel right, like an overreaction (Bombur?) just before the bridge that makes you feel like there should have been something else. Clip out that maybe.

I was trying to say that but you said it better...

That bridge bit doesn't work. It occured to me that you could "maybe" take those reaction shots and pop them in before the first big waterfall out of the Elf city? If you bit the bullet and rescored the sequence you could jumble up the footage almost anyway you wanted but redoing all the SoundFX in such an action sequence wouldn't be easy. However, since the sound is fairly chaotic you could probably shift the shots around and the sound would still mesh with the image seemlessly.

Another thought, the long slow distance shot at 1.33 could easily play as the final shot of the sequence.

 

[Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins]

Well I'm happy to say that I showed the full edit to some roommates of mine who have never seen a fanedit before. I told them to pay attention to anything that they thought was off audio or visual, and the only thing they mentioned was some audio weirdness in the barrel ride! The rest they had no problems with at all. that scene has been the hardest to edit, but i'll give it one last stab and after that it'll get released. probably later this week.

 

[Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins]

so, I took everyone's input and picked a song for the barrel scene from the OST that wasn't used and made something very different than you might be expecting. But, I like it,and it's certainly a different way to go about editing this scene. the clip is in sd because of vimeo weekly restrictions

pw fanedit1

 

[hasmak]

That works much better
I can't remember the exact dialog when they come out of the barrels and ready to travel but if it says "the lad is hurt" and not that has has been shot then the assumption would be that killy was hurt during the barrel ride, that would work nicely with later seens
Edit:
I had a quick look. when they come out Killy is wounded, the wound is seen but there is no arrow (it was broken when he fell in the barrel earlier) ;-) The dialog says "Killy is wounded, his leg needs binding" so I guess that should work out

 

[kellenpure]

First impressions of that last clip - again, I like the absence of the elves and orcs. But the waterfall that was added appears to be quite a bit larger than the subsequent footage would indicate, and I had the impression I was already at the bottom of the falls - maybe flip it so it appears to be flowing the same way the barrels are? Also, were the colored swirls intentional, or a video issue?

 

[TM2YC]

^ Seconded. Exactly my thoughts.

 

[Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins]

Yeah the colors are intentional. considering the amount of artistic licence PJ claimed that I have to work around, I guess can claim some of my own :lol:


Same with the waterfall, I'll try flipping it to see how it looks, but it's actually not supposed to blend, it's supposed to be a bit absurd to make the reaction shots pay off. Also, The music I chose was too long for the amount of footage especiially after taking out the gate. So I had to just improvise. It's actually Niagara Falls.

 

[emanswfan]

For those Niagra falls shots you added, I would add a slight camera shake to make it blend in better, as the other footage has a relatively lively camera.

 

[TM2YC]

For those Niagra falls shots you added, I would add a slight camera shake to make it blend in better, as the other footage has a relatively lively camera.

Very good point, also a fast camera glide or zoom might blend it better too.

 

[dangermouse]

Umm, the waterfall (with comic yell) and swirly colours added make the scene *significantly* worse.... I'm not sure that's the effect you were going for? They really do stand out.
Why don't you just cut the whole barrel ride and simply cut from Bilbo sliding out to them washing up on the beach.

 

[Lord_Elrond_St.Hubbins]

hmm I can't see how it is significantly worse. It's different, definitely, but worse? worse how exactly? (looking for your reasoning)

it cuts out the problematic weapons and gate, adds a new music element which is very nice and gives the reaction shots some meaning. it's rediculous to have niagara falls maybe, and yeah it stands out, but hey, this is a fan edit, why not do something silly? it flows very well with the music.


it all depends on what your goals are I guess.

 

[hasmak]

hmm I can't see how it is significantly worse. It's different, definitely, but worse? worse how exactly? (looking for your reasoning)

it cuts out the problematic weapons and gate, adds a new music element which is very nice and gives the reaction shots some meaning. it's rediculous to have niagara falls maybe, and yeah it stands out, but hey, this is a fan edit, why not do something silly? it flows very well with the music.


it all depends on what your goals are I guess.

Umm, the waterfall (with comic yell) and swirly colours added make the scene *significantly* worse.... I'm not sure that's the effect you were going for? They really do stand out.
Why don't you just cut the whole barrel ride and simply cut from Bilbo sliding out to them washing up on the beach.

I must agree with dangermouse
The swirly colors don't work for me and I fail to see the purpose of it
The waterfall seems wrong, it feels like they are approaching it from the bottom of the falls against the direction of the current, perhaps you can find another clip where they approach from the top and then fall with the current in a more natural way.
I know it is a fanedit, but I always felt that the purpose of fan edits is to improve on the original and give the viewer a better experience which is not the case with this seen

 

[TM2YC]

I bought the EE of Smaug yesterday and had a little go at cutting the Barrel sequence so I could understand the problems with editing it. It's fairly tricky for sure if you want to remove all the Orcs, as they are in about 80% of the footage. On the plus side it happens that most of the shots from the useable 20% have little or no music making rescoring the sequence "relatively" easy. Here is my VERY rough attempt...

(Password: fanedit.org)

All the visual cuts are working nicely I feel but perfecting the audio would require waaay more work than I could be bothered to do for a quick test. There are a number of points where a few additional SoundFX are needed and the lead up the gate needs all the foley work redone to work. Also I've got the music far too loud, to drown out a couple of bits of the original soundtrack that need properly fixing. But hopefully you get the idea of what I was going for. I've rescored it with 'Barrels out of Bond' (Track 9 from the OST) by the way. I'm sure there is probably a better choice of music as it's the same piece playing twice.

Also moved a couple of pieces of dialogue around in the before-and-after bits just for fun and to remove talk of the Orcs.