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DTS-HD Preservation

JackReacher

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What exactly do you mean by upmix? Will all the channels be filled with whatever is in L and R? Is there a way to get a multichannel .wav that has the other channels muted (stereo source) so that it can be joined to the BluRay audio?

Thanks I've read it, really helpful. It's just the color conversion confuses me, when do you go to RGB, when do you go back to yuv?

Thanks
 

ssj

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Captain Khajiit said:
I'd recommend ripping the whole disc and then trimming out the needed portion.

this also my general approach to eating meat.
 

JackReacher

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Since I decided to use AviSynth/VirtualDub I have to solve the first question again. What audio format should I use for multichannel audio in VirtualDub?

I want to do something like this:

1) Convert DTS HD  from BluRay to single multichannel lossless file that VirtualDub will be able to trim/splice.
2) Convert stereo AC3 from extended DVD to mono L/R lossless files. Create muted mono files (not sure how to do this) for the other channels. Save as single lossless file compatible with multichannel BluRay lossless file that VirtualDub will be able to trim/splice.

Reason being is that I don't want upmixing, I just want L and R playing when it comes to the extended scenes so it will be a multichannel file with only L and R playing audio. 

3) Trim extended DVD scene in VirtualDub and output trimmed audio into single multichannel lossless file.
4) Use eac3to to split trimmed multichannel lossless file into mono files.
4) Import L and R of trimmed audio in Encore and match volume with L and R of BluRay audio.
5) Convert trimmed audio from mono files back into single multichannel lossless file for use in VirtualDub.

What is the best way of doing this or please tell me there is a better way?  :-/
 

Captain Khajiit

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JackReacher said:
What exactly do you mean by upmix? Will all the channels be filled with whatever is in L and R?

Yes.  That's the idea of an upmix.

JackReacher said:
Is there a way to get a multichannel .wav that has the other channels muted (stereo source) so that it can be joined to the BluRay audio?

Yes, but it's a waste of time because it will sound very odd if your audio switches from 5.1 to 2.0 within a film and then switches back again.  It's as good a way of saying "Here's an edit!" as I can think of, bar using onscreen text.  If you do that, you can forget about getting the edit approved.

It's just the color conversion confuses me, when do you go to RGB, when do you go back to yuv?

Now that you are contemplating editing in AviSynth, you don't have to worry so much about conversion to RGB, because AviSynth doesn't make unpredictable changes to the levels of your video.  Convert to RGB if:


  • you need to use a filter that functions only in RGB;
  • you want to do more precise color-correction than you feel you can achieve in YUV.

JackReacher said:
What audio format should I use for multichannel audio in VirtualDub?

I want to do something like this:

1) Convert DTS HD  from BluRay to single multichannel lossless file that VirtualDub will be able to trim/splice.
2) Convert stereo AC3 from extended DVD to mono L/R lossless files. Create muted mono files (not sure how to do this) for the other channels. Save as single lossless file compatible with multichannel BluRay lossless file that VirtualDub will be able to trim/splice.

It's nothing to do with VirtualDub.  If you use AviSynth, it does all the work: decodes the video/audio; trims and splices it together; etc.  All VirtualDub does is render your project at the end (in the same way in which you might otherwise render an AVI to import into an NLE).

You can call a wide range of decoders with AviSynth.  In other words, file format doesn't matter as much when using AviSynth as it does when you use a conventional, GUI-based NLE.  What I do is decode the DTS-HD MA with eac3to and output a multi-channel w64 file that I call with NicRaWavSource().
 

JackReacher

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I know but in the case of TV footage that has 256kbps audio, how can upmixing ever end up sounding good especially next to DTS HD audio? It will sound obvious that it is an edit just on that basis. And whatever filters used in the upmixing might make it sound even worse and echo-ey

If the video will end up being YUV anyway, would it not defeat the purpose of correcting color in RGB? Or is it just easier to match color grading when working in RGB? Also when performing color space conversion, is the conversion process lossless?

It's nothing to do with VirtualDub.  If you use AviSynth, it does all the work: decodes the video/audio; trims and splices it together; etc.  All VirtualDub does is render your project at the end (in the same way in which you might otherwise render an AVI to import into an NLE).

You can call a wide range of decoders with AviSynth.  In other words, file format doesn't matter as much when using AviSynth as it does when you use a conventional, GUI-based NLE.  What I do is decode the DTS-HD MA with eac3to and output a multi-channel w64 file that I call with NicRaWavSource().

Thanks a lot for this. I'm starting to get the picture.
 

Captain Khajiit

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JackReacher said:
I know but in the case of TV footage that has 256kbps audio, how can upmixing ever end up sounding good especially next to DTS HD audio? It will sound obvious that it is an edit just on that basis. And whatever filters used in the upmixing might make it sound even worse and echo-ey

256kbps is a very healthy bitrate for 2.0.  It should upmix well enough.  Upmixing a small section will sound far less jarring than cutting back and forth between 2.0 and 5.1, which as far as I'm concerned is the audio equivalent of chopping back and forth between aspect ratios – an instant fail.

JackReacher said:
If the video will end up being YUV anyway, would it not defeat the purpose of correcting color in RGB?

No, because the purpose of color correction is to correct the color.  While it is possible to do color correction in YUV, conversion to RGB enables more precise work, thereby facilitating the process.

JackReacher said:
Also when performing color space conversion, is the conversion process lossless?

No, but if you do it right, the quality remains very good.  And fanediting is a process in which capable editors:

  1. accept a little quality loss for the not inconsiderable gain of having films the way they want them;
  2. use their technical skills to minimize the loss so that their viewers readily accept it (and barely notice it).
 

JackReacher

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256kbps is a very healthy bitrate for 2.0.  It should upmix well enough.  Upmixing a small section will sound far less jarring than cutting back and forth between 2.0 and 5.1, which as far as I'm concerned is the audio equivalent of chopping back and forth between aspect ratios – an instant fail.
Do you have code for upmixing? I read all the threads with upmixing and I really don't know which one to go for. I also don't have a system to test it on. Bear in mind that it is a TV capture so it's probably not healthy. I am willing to give it a try now since the deleted scenes are 4:3  and the BluRay is 16:9 so now I don't wanna have a double fail lol! 


No, but if you do it right, the quality remains very good.  And fanediting is a process in which capable editors:

  1. accept a little quality loss for the not inconsiderable gain of having films the way they want them;
  2. use their technical skills to minimize the loss so that their viewers readily accept it (and barely notice it).

Thanks for the words of wisdom  : :)
 

Captain Khajiit

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JackReacher said:
Do you have code for upmixing?

As previously mentioned, try BeHappy.  It has a number of options.  Google them or search on Doom9 or VideoHelp.com to help you decide which to use.
 

JackReacher

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Hi Captain


I started compiling my AviSynth script according to your guide. I used DGIndex for the DVD and DGIndexNV for the BluRay. Since the two differ in Colorimetry, do I have to convert the DVD to .709? Or does the x264 encoder detect the .601 footage and converts it during encoding?


Thanks
 

ssj

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Captain Khajiit said:
As previously mentioned, try BeHappy.

i try, captain. i try so hard.
 

ssj

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what?

don't happy, be worry?
 

Captain Khajiit

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JackReacher said:
Since the two differ in Colorimetry, do I have to convert the DVD to .709?

You do if the output is HD.

ssj said:
what?

don't happy, be worry?

No!  He said: "Don't worry BeHappy."  It's an overworked program that doesn't need any additional stress.
 

JackReacher

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Hi Captain

I did some volume matching and ended up with 6 .wav files. I can't seem to join them to one multi-channel .w64 file using eac3to.

This is what I get.

eac3to.exe TV.C.wav+TV.L.wav+TV.R.wav+TV.LFE.wav+TV.SL.wav+TV.SR.wav TV.w64
WAV, 1.0 channels, 10:54:28, 24 bits, 1152kbps, 48kHz
Source file joining currently doesn't work for WAV files.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
 

Captain Khajiit

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That's because joining means concatenating.  You're trying to merge the channels, which can be achieved in AviSynth.

Code:
fl=WavSource("L.wav")
fr=WavSource("R.wav")
c=WavSource("C.wav")
lfe=WavSource("LFE.wav")
sl=WavSource("SL.wav")
sr=WavSource("SR.wav")

MergeChannels(fl,fr,c,lfe,sl,sr)
 

JackReacher

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How would I output the w64 file? I'm not sure if eac3to works with AviSynth.
 

Captain Khajiit

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TVs Frink said:
I learned a new word!

It's from Latin catena meaning chain.  (And that was from memory.)  :D

JackReacher said:
How would I output the w64 file? I'm not sure if eac3to works with AviSynth.

It doesn't. Use SoundOut().
 
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