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Cropping in Vegas (or other software)

elbarto1

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My source copy of True Lies has a tiny black bar running down the left side of the screen.

Overscan will hide this on a CRT TV but it is apparent on a PC or flat panel HDTV.
anyway, I know how to crop an image in Vegas but cant seem to crop only what I want. the "dotted line" with a big F showing what you are keeping wont let me move it freely and this only allows me to crop all the way around the screen.

I know I can move it around because I did it when editing Running Scared but I cant duplicate the effect here. Its like the ratio is locked and I can only enlarge/reduce the ratio around the image which cuts off material from all sides.

I am sure its a setting I have enabled but cant figure what it is.

Thanks :)
 
unfortunately I can't post a screen-shot at the moment, because I am encoding something from Vegas, but in your pan/crop window, there are options running down the left side. One from Resize About Center, Lock Aspect Ration, and one for Movement Limitations. Check these out. The Movement Limitations button has 3 different ways to go: left/right only, up/down only, and move freely (keep clicking on it to change through them).

Hopefully this cures your resizing woes.
 
I'll give it another look tonight but I did indeed mess w/ all those settings to no avail.
Thanks :)
 
yeah.... unlock the aspect ratio... as throw said... and narrow the window/screen size a bit... and then grab the whole window/screen and move it to the right a little... so the black bar isn't covered by the screen area.... should work fairly well....
 
It looks like I can accomplish the crop easily when I run the final edit through TMPGEnc simply by adjusting the left margin, This brings the resolution down from 720x480 to 710x480 though - is this going to be a problem when I go to author the DVD?
 
if that is the final output size, yes it will be a problem as its not DVD compliant. So you still having trouble with Vegas?
 
Drat! I have exactly the same problem with a different film. Better discuss it here than in Throw's T2 thread, which is what caused me to first notice my problem.

Why do some DVDs have this? It's so annoying.

If my HDTV is set to "wide" - it in fact does this automatically- the black bar is not visible and the picture looks fine. Obviously the TV has a way of doing this - I presume it's by stretching the picture slightly. Surely some software can just do what a TV does automatically.
 
I assume the DVD's that do it are either lazy transfers or they were produced before fixed pixel HDTV's were commonplace and expected that overscan would hide the edges of the picture.

I dont know any software that removes this automatically and if it did, I would think the picture world suffer in one of 2 ways - either it would be cropped on both sides losing good image from the side w/o the bar or it would be increased by zooming in which would distort the picture and cause artifacting as well as a crop on both sides.

vegas allows you to crop a specified amount unique to your particular needs to avoid over cropping and any unintentional image degradation.

due to personal business I still havent got to the point where I am ready to perform a crop on my True Lies edit but when I do I'll be happy to help you or you could get throws help, which is what I plan to do when I am ready. :)
 
Thanks, elbarto. :) I've more or less decided that it's not really worth the hassle, as in wide mode the picture looks perfect anyway, but do let me know how you go.

I think you're right about the expectation being that overscan would hide the picture, but it's still frustrating. I'm constantly amazed by the sloppiness that studios get away with.
 
yeah, I am amazed by the sloppy shitty transfers sometimes too. just amazes me.

anyway, i will try to get some screenshots posted and some general notes on what you can do for the variety of techniques that elbarto hinted at.
 
Nice one! :smile:

EDIT: I really don't see how you can crop the sides without either losing picture from the top and bottom, stretching the image horizontally or squashing it vertically. Whichever way, isn't it better to let the TV's wide mode do this, rather than risking artifacts or image degradation?

I don't doubt you, guys, but I'm having real trouble getting my head round how Vegas - or any other program - can do this without affecting the aspect ratio or losing some picture. Please let me know. :)
 
Any news on this guys? I'm nearly done on my next edit, and I need to make a decision as to whether I'm going to try to recrop or not.
 
sorry, fall warblers have been keeping me busy :) i will post something tomorrow with images
 
Those pesky warblers! :) Thanks, Throw!

I'm glad you're enjoying yourself. I'll look forward to tomorrow.
 
OK, sorry this took so long, but I hope this helps. In the following set of instructions, I will discuss how to work with Vegas to get rid of pesky black bars on the side of a video. This can be evident on crappy transfers, and while typically it got covered up by overscan on most TVs, that becoming less and less the case with newer flatscreen TVs. Here is the source video we are working with:

warlock1.png


notice the black bar that is evident on the right side of the video. There are 3 things we can do to get rid of this. (1) Crop and Zoom, (2) Crop and Stretch, and (3) Crop & Replace with black bars.

(1) Crop and Zoom - If the source image quality is good, and you dont mind losing a couple pixels on the top and bottom of the video, this may be the most desirable method to use. Once you have the video all setup in your timeline in Vegas, click on the Event Pan/Crop button:

warlock3.jpg


That will open a new window for you to work in. First, you will see a series of buttons down the left hand side:

warlock4.jpg


Make sure Lock Aspect Ratio is ON, and Size About Center is OFF. All of the options in the column to the right of that should be fine at the default settings. Next right click on the video image in the window and click on Match Output Aspect:

warlock5.jpg


Then drag the corner of the box with "F" in it (dotted line around the video preview) so that it only covers the true image area (not the black side lines):

warlock6.jpg


Notice on the Vegas video Preview window (bottom right of image above) that the black bars have been removed, and the image is slightly zoomed in. You are done. That is method #1.



(2) Crop and Stretch - This crops off the black bar(s) and stretches the video to fill the screen. NOT RECOMMENDED!! This will change the actual aspect ratio of the video and it will look stretched. If you insist on using this method, here is what you do:

Once again, click on the Event Pan/Crop button. On the options on the left, under SOURCE, change the Maintain Aspect Ratio to NO (YES is the default):

warlock7.jpg


Once again, right click on the video image in the window and click on Match Output Aspect. Then drag the side of the box with "F" in it (dotted line around the video preview) so that it only covers the true image area (not the black side lines):

warlock8.jpg


Notice on the Vegas video Preview window (bottom right of image above) that the black bars have been removed, and the image is stretched to fit the window. You are done. That is method #2. Again, I do NOT recommend this method as it will make the image look squished or stretched.



(3) Crop & Replace with black bars - This method crops off the usually ugly black bars, recenters the image, and adds crisp black bars to the side. If you dont want to zoom in at all, you may want to use this method.

Once again, click on the Event Pan/Crop button. This time, make sure Lock Aspect Ratio is OFF, and Size About Center is OFF (the buttons on the left hand side). All of the options in the column to the right of that should be fine at the default settings. Next right click on the video image in the window and click on Match Output Aspect. Then drag the side of the box with "F" in it (dotted line around the video preview) so that it only covers the true image area (not the black side lines):

warlock9.jpg


Notice on the Vegas video Preview window (bottom right of image above) that the black bars have been replaced with crisp black bars, and the image is centered the window. You are done. That is method #3. Most ideal if you dont mind (neat pillarboxing) black bars and you dont want to zoom in any more.

If you need to do more extreme cropping/resizing (such as taking a letterboxed movie, and making it truly anamorphic), I highly recommend using Virtualdub to do that as a first step, prior to editing. There are some different resizing algorithms that you can play with to get the best image quality. Vegas is more than adequate for the application described in this post. I hope this helps. :)
 
I've been recropping a video file in Virtualdubmod MPEG-2 and exporting to CCE. First I applied null transform, then recropped, then resized. Static images look fine, but movement is extremely poorly handled, displaying blurry horizontal lines.

There is also a frame, every time a scene changes, in which the last frame of the preceding scene is blurred together with the first frame of the following scene. I can deal with these "transition frames", as I am callling them, through editing, but the motion is causing me some problems.

I used lanczos 3 for the resizing, and exported with a number bitrates and settings in CCE, exporting with a triple pass for each setting I tested. Forcing a high VBR helps, but not much.

I have found that checking the "Preprocess: Deinterlacing" option in CCE helps noticeably, but I am wary about using this option as I thought it is best not to deinterlace. Or does the program just deinterlace before it does its job, so to speak?

I'd appreciate any help, especially in respect of deinterlacing. Thanks, guys!

Elbarto1, I hope you're having better luck than I'm having, mate! :)
 
2 things to note before you start everything:

1) is the original video interlaced? did you apply any deinterlacing filters? and what algorithms did you use. If you did deinterlace it should be the first step before resizing.

2) what is the framerate of the video? is it actually 23.976 with flags, as opposed to true 29.97 (most movies aren't). You can encode with CCE using the 23.976 option (also make sure the FOR DVD box is unchecked). Then when you are done encoding, use DGPulldown to set it to 29.97.
 
Thanks once again. I wasn't applying deinterlacing filters initially, although I did experiment with them.

I fixed the problem by increasing the frame sensitivity in virtualdubmod. It worked like a charm. I was about to give up on my project yesterday, after having played with exporting with various options all weekend; but in desperation I pushed the slider all the way up to maximum and the picture was clear as a bell. Whether this is a bona fide solution to the problem or not I don't know, but it seems to work.

Thankfully CCE corrects the aspect ratio for me, as I still cannot get it right in virtuadubmod. I think the problem is that it exports as 4:3 even if the picture's widescreen, and I can't find how to change it. Amazing, but I can't!

I do have lines travelling up the screen in a wave in another section, but it doesn't appear in the original, or in an MP4 I made using files from my rip, so I'm hoping it's just on the PC. There is a lot of flickering light in that scene, so I hope it's just that the PC finds it hard to cope with.

Thank you very much once again, Throw. You deserve a medal for all your help. :)

I have a little basic colour correction to do too, but I think I'll start another thread for that, if I can't find it discussed already.
 
Aspect ratio is maths, nothing else than that.
Digital movies work with a trick to create widescreen by stretching pixels.
So the width with which you need to calculate for NTSC is 854. Yet what you use is 720. The height has to be calculated as if you used 854 width.
For example:
Your video is 2.35:1.
for an avi (no pixel stretch) the size would be: 854x363 or 720x306.
For your 16:9 mpg the size would be: 720x363.
So you have the usual 720 width, but will see a stretched height. The widescreen setting will correct that.
 
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