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Captain Marvel : Where's the Love

tremault

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i particularly disliked captain marvel as did many people. for me, carol came across as arrogant and condescending, particularly to men. this anti man feeling also extended beyond carol and in my opinion the worst part of the film where “I’m just a girl” started playing. As a woman, I didn’t find any of this particularly empowering as I think it was meant to be.
I wondered if these things were the main reason why this film feels bad to me so i have been taking another look and considering how the film would work with some alterations.
the first thing I have done is to try and remove that song and replace it with something i felt fit the theme better. I decided on “Ready to go” by Republica.
I have this sequence already done and rendered out.
If anyone is interested in taking a look and giving any feedback, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts.

Change List:
Colour graded entire movie to reflect Carol's emotional state.
Added visual effects to reflect when Carol's implant was subduing her powers.
Switched Carol and Yon Rogg door scene, to a deleted scene of Yon Rogg teaching children.
Trimmed train scene due to redundancies in the dialogue caused by teaching scene.
Removed Carol needlessly insulting her Kree colleague.
Inserted deleted scene showing more upbeat and friendly interaction with Kree colleagues.
On skrull ship, during memory search, cut some parts where she was obviously being 'put down by men'.
Removed Carol screaming at skrull. it was stupid.
Removed 'cockpit' comment on skrull monitor.
Turned 'Ma Bell' into radio static and distortion.
Removed Carol telling Fury "you finally asked a relevant question"
Removed Biker "how about a smile?"
Removed Fury and 'Keller' looking under autopsy blanket.
Removed "noble warrior heroes", the way she said it was too smarmy.
Removed Carols smirk and "huh" just before the "welcome wagon" in the pegasus facility.
Inserted flashback to memories of Goose when they meet up with Goose in the corridor.
Inserted a few relevant flashbacks when Carol is studying the files on the crash.
Replaced Yon Rogg/Ronan scene with deleted scene of 'Keller' talking about tracking the plane.
Re-inserted Yon Rogg/Ronan scene midway through the scene in Marie's house so as to make it feel like she was there longer.
Inserted a shot of 'Goose' at the cut back to Marie's house. (from stock footage)
Inserted some warm memory flashbacks when Carol is looking at old photos....
Inserted an unpleasant 'memory' of the 'Skrull' shooting Lawson, just before there is a knock on the door, to introduce more tension.
Inserted scene of Yonn Rogg talking to supreme intelligence to show just how intimidating the supreme intelligence can be.
Removed Carol saying " reached blah blah altitude" and inserted a reminder of her and Maria's relationship.
Changed scene of scanning goose and fury, so it says "human" instead of "human male".
Reduced volume of "smells like teen spirit". it just seemed way too loud to me.
Removed memory of bike crash and baseball. these seem to serve only to suggest "she's clumsy because she's a girl". extended the gocart clip just to pad this out for the dialogue.
Completely replaced montage of "Carol standing up because she's realised she's allowed to" with a montage of "Carol reflects on her friendships and realises her emotions give her strength".
Removed "just a girl" and replaced it with "violet" by 'Hole'.
Removed horrible effects shot of carol falling towards the ground. It was just ugly XD
Removed Carol's line to Yon Rogg "I have nothing to prove to you".
Removed Talos' reaction to Goose scratching Fury's eye. Now it is not indicated that This is the cause of his lost eye.
Removed Maria's line asking Fury about his eye.
Removed final scene to reinsert it as a mid credits scene
Mid credits scene features part of a deleted scene of Fury walking to his office with both eyes intact.
Obligatory edit of the end credits.
 
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tremault

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thanks, I sent you a pm.

I guess there's not much interest in captain marvel though?
or is this how projects usually go here? not sure what to expect I guess. do I need to demonstrate more work on this? or i it because I'm new?
to be honest, I'd hoped feedback from others might give me added motivation. XD
 

flaminio

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Howdy -- I don't share your opinion on Captain Marvel, but fan-edits are inevitably very personal, and if your edit makes the movie better for you, then you've succeeded.

I do agree that "Ready to Go" is a better song choice for that scene than "Just a Girl".
 

Malthus

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Hi @"tremault", your idea for the rescoring is interesting. While personally I had little issue with Captain Marvel I'll admit the choice of track was a little on the nose but I enjoyed the scene never the less. I think your idea to use "Ready to Go" is a good choice as it has a similar energy to "Just a Girl" and is from that era.

Regarding samples I tend to host them on Vimeo and share them here as an embedded video by using the film strip icon above. If you have any queries about what you can, could or should post on the forum just message on of the admins.

What are your proposed changes for the character?
 

stferguson78

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tremault said:
i particularly disliked captain marvel as did many people. for me, carol came across as arrogant and condescending, particularly to men. this anti man feeling also extended beyond carol and in my opinion the worst part of the film where “I’m just a girl” started playing. As a woman, I didn’t find any of this particularly empowering as I think it was meant to be.
I wondered if these things were the main reason why this film feels bad to me so i have been taking another look and considering how the film would work with some alterations.
the first thing I have done is to try and remove that song and replace it with something i felt fit the theme better. I decided on “Ready to go” by Republica.
I have this sequence already done and rendered out.
If anyone is interested in taking a look and giving any feedback, I’d be happy to hear your thoughts.

I can't post a link can I?
pm me?
I also have a thread on another website, am I allowed to say which one?

Welcome, if you post the clip I’m sure you’ll get plenty of feedback. I think an idea of the other changes you intend to make would get people interested- your planned cut list, additions etc.
Best of luck
 

tremault

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wow! many thanks for your replies!!
I just started uploading this clip to Vimeo and I'll post it here once done.--
Done. (I'm aware of the glitch at the start, that's been fixed in my timeline now.)

planned changes.... I mostly want to remove the bits where Danvers seems mean or arrogant just for the sake of it.
The way Danvers responds to people in this film doesn't warm me to her, so all these feminist messages throughout the film sort of fall flat for me. therefore I will be removing a lot of them because IMO they fail to make their point.
Also, the parts where that thing on her neck lit up subduing her powers, it didn't seem clear to me whilst watching so when she eventually took it off, I was confused. So I am trying to draw attention to it a bit more.

I did some work on this the other day and here are the edits I did so far.
0:03:05 I did a subtle zoom affect when yon rogg tells her to 'control'.
0:06:32 I did the same zoom effect when the supreme intelligence says 'taken away'
0:15:15 removed "you don't belong out here" and "you let him drive", was it her dad?
0:15:40 reduced volume on "They'll never let you fly"
0:15:46 removed "you're a decent pilot .... you know why it's called a cockpit".
0:20:30 Removed the part where she screams at the enemy. she hasn't come across as a playful character so far so it just doesn't work for me.
0:28:55 Removed "congratulations fury, you just asked a relevant question", it now goes "woah woah woah starforce lady, YOU are under arrest".
 

Malthus

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You did a really nice job of removing the "Just a girl" however for me the track didn't quite fit as well as I'd imagined. That's not your fault, I like the song in isolation but the monotonous nature of the track became too repeatative for me in this sequence. My suggestion for an alternative track would be "Girl from Mars" by Ash. It has a similar energy, is era appropriate and has the added cosmic theme. Starting it at 17/18secs would give you a solid up-tempo start to the fight.


In your sample the track cuts out rather abruptly at 1:42 but otherwise I think you did a good job with the levels.

Re: proposed/actioned changes

I might not share your problem with Carol's character but I think your choices make sense given your stated aims. Her screaming at her attackers definitely was one of the more forced moments in the film.
 

tremault

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That is a really nice song and I do like it.  I did consider a lot of different songs, but I felt that at the end of the day, it had to be a song with a female vocalist.  With this being a pivotal moment in a movie that is essentially a feminist work, I felt that was an important factor. Whilst I am trying to tone down the overt feminist feel, I do think that I still have to keep the fundamental theme there. does that make sense? sorry I struggle to convey my feelings sometimes.
 

tremault

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Thanks to some guidance from VERsingthegamez , I have decided on a emotional payoff for the film. since the intended emotional payoff really doesn't work for me in this film, I will replace it. 
Currently, the film wants to say " you have been held back and pushed down, but if you get angry enough, you can overcome it" .
I want to make the new message " if you allow yourself to feel love, you can unlock great strength within".
My reasons for this are the continuing message from yon rogg that Carol is too emotional. even though she hardly shows any. my feeling is, the small amount of emotion she shows, interferes with their control. fair enough.  so what would overcome their control more? more emotion? The thing I dislike about her is how she seem unnecessarily nasty to Fury. so I want to instead try to accentuate her growing relationship with him. also her relationship with Monica, Maria and Talos and his family.  After all, Goose shows family connections in this movie quite well,  it's a recurring theme there.
I want to take this and accentuate it, by completely replacing the montage where she is breaking free of their control.
instead of a montage of just Carol, repeatedly getting up, I want to instead create a montage of how her emotional connections have grown between her and her friends. That will be the implied reason behind her overcoming her restrictions.
 

VERsingthegamez

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tremault said:
Thanks to some guidance from VERsingthegamez , I have decided on a emotional payoff for the film. since the intended emotional payoff really doesn't work for me in this film, I will replace it. 
Currently, the film wants to say " you have been held back and pushed down, but if you get angry enough, you can overcome it" .
I want to make the new message " if you allow yourself to feel love, you can unlock great strength within".
My reasons for this are the continuing message from yon rogg that Carol is too emotional. even though she hardly shows any. my feeling is, the small amount of emotion she shows, interferes with their control. fair enough.  so what would overcome their control more? more emotion? The thing I dislike about her is how she seem unnecessarily nasty to Fury. so I want to instead try to accentuate her growing relationship with him. also her relationship with Monica, Maria and Talos and his family.  After all, Goose shows family connections in this movie quite well,  it's a recurring theme there.
I want to take this and accentuate it, by completely replacing the montage where she is breaking free of their control.
instead of a montage of just Carol, repeatedly getting up, I want to instead create a montage of how her emotional connections have grown between her and her friends. That will be the implied reason behind her overcoming her restrictions.

That is a much better message and I feel can make the film more powerful.
 

stferguson78

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tremault said:
wow! many thanks for your replies!!
I just started uploading this clip to Vimeo and I'll post it here once done.--
Done. (I'm aware of the glitch at the start, that's been fixed in my timeline now.)

planned changes.... I mostly want to remove the bits where Danvers seems mean or arrogant just for the sake of it.
The way Danvers responds to people in this film doesn't warm me to her, so all these feminist messages throughout the film sort of fall flat for me. therefore I will be removing a lot of them because IMO they fail to make their point.
Also, the parts where that thing on her neck lit up subduing her powers, it didn't seem clear to me whilst watching so when she eventually took it off, I was confused. So I am trying to draw attention to it a bit more.

I did some work on this the other day and here are the edits I did so far.
0:03:05 I did a subtle zoom affect when yon rogg tells her to 'control'.
0:06:32 I did the same zoom effect when the supreme intelligence says 'taken away'
0:15:15 removed "you don't belong out here" and "you let him drive", was it her dad?
0:15:40 reduced volume on "They'll never let you fly"
0:15:46 removed "you're a decent pilot .... you know why it's called a cockpit".
0:20:30 Removed the part where she screams at the enemy. she hasn't come across as a playful character so far so it just doesn't work for me.
0:28:55 Removed "congratulations fury, you just asked a relevant question", it now goes "woah woah woah starforce lady, YOU are under arrest".

Really like your change list- particularly the last three. Definitely some of the more egregious issues with the movie. That cockpit gag had me cringing in the cinema as I recall.
 

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The change in the message conveyed at the movies conclusion sounds very appealing & would help offset many of the complaints about the MCUs portrayal of the character, not to mention strengthening the bond with Fury that was crucial to appearance in Endgame. Do you think there will be sufficient footage to make it work?
 

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I just want to say I agree with your viewpoints on Captain Marvel and looking forward to the final product.
 

tremault

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stferguson78 said:
The change in the message conveyed at the movies conclusion sounds very appealing & would help offset many of the complaints about the MCUs portrayal of the character, not to mention strengthening the bond with Fury that was crucial to appearance in Endgame. Do you think there will be sufficient footage to make it work?

I believe so.
I watched through some of the scenes with the characters interacting and I saw some good bonding moments. I may need to build up to it though, perhaps have her memories juxtaposed at various point through the movie or just leading up to that moment on the ship/lab.
that's something to think about.

it's interesting how there is actually some good character moments, but I noticed the pacing of it seemed a little out. I feel like they introduced the peril of the skrull appearing in the house quite quickly and it perhaps forced us to deal with those plot points too quickly and the sweet character moments kinda got washed away. I'm thinking about some ways I can change that too.
 

Malthus

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Very interesting approach. Potentially you could look through other Brie Larson movies and replace all her developmental flashes with gentle, loving moments from those other films "from her life before the event".
 

VERsingthegamez

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Very interesting approach. Potentially you could look through other Brie Larson movies and replace all her developmental flashes with gentle, loving moments from those other films "from her life before the event".
Another good idea as well. Though it would be interesting how you could do it.
 

tremault

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that is a really cool idea and I do like it. my only concern would be the differences in lighting and filming styles.
I'm not really anywhere near an expert on lighting or colour grading etc, but I did see this idea used in one of the man of steel edits and the added clips stood out to me as different somehow.
 

VERsingthegamez

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that is a really cool idea and I do like it. my only concern would be the differences in lighting and filming styles.
I'm not really anywhere near an expert on lighting or colour grading etc, but I did see this idea used in one of the man of steel edits and the added clips stood out to me as different somehow.
Yeah that can lead to some issues with consistency but try to see if you can make the message of " if you allow yourself to feel love, you can unlock great strength within". with what is in the film first before going to other films to help fulfill that message. Don't overwhelm yourself too much with that yet.
 

tremault

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Update on my plans. I'm also doing some colour grading. I want to associate more colour with more emotion. I'm reducing colour for the majority of the start of the movie and then bringing the colour up at parts that should be more emotional. also, her memories should be mostly greyscale, apart from the particularly potent ones. I don't think it'll be super noticeable if you're not aware of it, but it should help to improve the mood of the film through the subconscious.
I've also found some deleted scenes and one of them worked really well at making Carol more likeable.
I'm adding this scene as it should hopefully make her a more sympathetic character for the viewer as the film unfolds.
 
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