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Entirely 1995 and flashbacks to 1989 with no present-day stuff, except the mid-credits scene, which is after Infinity War (possibly an actual chunk of a scene from Endgame). The post-credits scene is 1995 again.
I should also make the clarification that gritty≠believable. I didn't really enjoy the Dark Knight and I have no zero interest in The Suicide Squad, even though those are seen as set in more grounded/realistic universes.
Of course they are intended for everyone to watch, enjoy, and appreciate. Heck, that's part of my initial argument. I just meant what I said in the way that these movies get the most money from kids and teenagers, and those who grew up with these heroes as kids or teenagers. These people are their target audience. Am I wrong?
Even if you disagree, it is considered as one of the greatest films of all time, which shows that there is the potential for these films to resonate to people as much as other films. As you probably know, it's ranked number 4 in IMDB's Top 250.
ThrowgnCpr said:
I also prefer character pieces and get pretty bored with the action is cranked to 11 for extended periods of time. I really appreciate when sci-fi/fantasy creates great character films set in hyper-exaggerated realities. Logan and Rogue One are great examples of this, and even many of the Harry Potter films align more with what I like from my "make believe" escapist adventures.
That's a great argument, I completely understand. I am way more okay with things getting over-the-top, which is why I enjoy films like The Hobbit and of course superhero films.
You said, though, that you prefer these kinds of films being character driven rather than action driven. I completely agree, and I would add story and themes to this as well. But in my eyes a lot of superhero movies fit in this character/story driven preference (in fact, those who don't are precisely the ones I consider pure, substanceless escapism). Tony Stark and Steve Rogers' character arcs in these movies are examples of how great these films can be. In the Avengers movies, every movie has brilliantly intertwined each Avenger's character arcs into one overarching ensemble story. Age of Ultron for example is often overlooked, but is a great movie about inner demons and monstrosity. While of course these superhero films have a lot of action, I don't agree that they don't have great character pieces that accompany those.
Great Marvel character films:
Spider-Man 1 & 2
The Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2 (I know everyone will disagree with this one but it's my honest opinion)
Iron Man 1 & 3
X-Men: First Class
The Avengers
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1 & 2
Captain America: Civil War
Logan
Black Panther
Avengers: Infinity War
Great DC character films:
Superman: The Movie
Superman II
Batman Returns (yeah I know, my opinion vastly changed)
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Man of Steel
Wonder Woman (except the third act)
But of course, it all comes down to personal taste. My exposure to superheroes during childhood and loving them so much that it became an integral part of my life, is the reason I love these movies so much.
You said, though, that you prefer these kinds of films being character driven rather than action driven. I completely agree, and I would add story and themes to this as well. But in my eyes a lot of superhero movies fit in this character/story driven preference (in fact, those who don't are precisely the ones I consider pure, substanceless escapism). Tony Stark and Steve Rogers' character arcs in these movies are examples of how great these films can be. In the Avengers movies, every movie has brilliantly intertwined each Avenger's character arcs into one overarching ensemble story. Age of Ultron for example is often overlooked, but is a great movie about inner demons and monstrosity. While of course these superhero films have a lot of action, I don't agree that they don't have great character pieces that accompany those.
Yes, I agree, and I didn't mean to imply that films cannot be character driven and at the same time contain over-the-top action sequences. Like I said, I enjoyed Iron Man up until the third act, but I completely lost interest in the ridiculous flying battle sequence. I also enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy and that is a really silly over-the-top film.
Terminator 2 is another example where a cool sci-fi/character film got lost in the action. I edited that movie precisely because I thought there was a great film that got lost in excess.
I appreciate that these superhero filmmakers are injecting a lot of character focus and complex social themes into the films. But for me, I generally get really bored in the excessive action and over-the-top CGI. It usually pulls me from belief in the alternate reality. As a general rule of thumb, I feel like comic-book/superhero films go much further with the action and campiness than other forms of fantasy or science fiction. And as such, I enjoy them much less. I'm not saying they are any worse than other forms of sci-fi/fantasy or film in the broader context. But I do see a distinction in tone and personal entertainment value.
It is all down to personal taste, but this tangent started because I responded to Zarius saying he thinks people are too kind to Marvel movies. My point in that initial response was that these movies (not talking about anything other than specifically Marvel movies by Marvel Studios from 2008 to present) are designed to get the reaction they do, whether you or I think that's good or bad doesn't matter to them.
Just like any successful product, they are made with intent. But, I don't want to actually say that makes them bad. They're not trying to fool anyone, and they get the reaction that was expected and planned for.
Sometimes you want something that gets that reaction out of you. Sometimes you don't. And sometimes you hate coconut.
I’m firmly in the ThrowgnCpr camp. I, too, liked the original Iron Man until the third act. Then every single MCU movie seemed to follow the same template, just without a lead as charismatic at RDJr., save for Pratt to a degree. Other than Ledger’s performance I found TDk pretty bad, really. I probably expect too much from Star Wars, though I think R1 did a pretty good job. Ultimately, I thought the original Star Wars did a fantastic job taking Saturday morning serial type sci fi and making it a classic Hero’s Journey and Empire did a great job adding depth. But the rest of the movies haven’t grabbed me. But, perhaps due to my affinity for the first two, I keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with Bob and San Francisco Chronicle critic Mick LaSalle... the flick was only decent. I might even call it the MCU's worst movie, though it isn't actually bad; maybe a B-. I was impressed at how complex the story started out, and how the audience is thrown right into the deep end without any preparation, even for fans of the series, but the problem is that Carol never really coheres as a character until much later on, and is short on motivation and personality the whole way through. IMO, this is a better movie than Wonder Woman, and I'm sure Brie Larson can act circles around Gal Gadot, but Gadot gave a much more lively and compelling performance in her flick. Sam Jackson and Ben Mendehlson end up stealing the show. (The de-aging on Jackson and Clark Gregg was X-Men: The Last Stand-level awful in their first scene, but it got better, maybe because I got used to it, and maybe because they pretty much kept out of daylight from then on - as Bob says, this is a very dimly lit flick, as visually dark as Solo, if not more.)
As an MCU fan and Wonder Woman skeptic, I'd hoped this movie would hit it out of the park, but though I do again think it's a bit better, it's no home run.
Really solid in-depth spoiler discussion:
Regarding gender issues, and the BS sexism surrounding that, my only eyebrow-raising moment was when
Nat started ordering her fellow Avengers around. Since when do any of them report to her?!
Just saw Captain Marvel and I liked it. My first impressions are that the story is told okay, I liked Carol enough to care, the cinematography was standard, the music was okay (was hoping better from fellow Turk Pınar Toprak, but still proud)... everything was okay.
Gotta agree though that the lighting is terrible, looks very dark and dimly lit. Not sure why. Do people think the same, or was it the cinema and not the film itself?
I would probably put this above Iron Man 2, but Thor: The Dark World I’m not too sure. I like that movie for the Loki stuff which I really love. That movie is average with the Thor-Loki story elevating it. Captain Marvel is okay but not really anything elevating it. Just some standart superhero origin fun.
Will think more about it...
EDIT: FWIW I saw this with my 11 year-old cousin and she said it’s her favorite Marvel movie because it was more exciting and had a girl as the hero... The only other Marvel movies she’s seen is Captain America: The First Avenger and the Raimi Spider-Man Trilogy (I’m not sure she’s aware though that the trilogy is also technically Marvel though)
EDIT 2: She told me she’s aware but not sure which is better... but she def likes it better than Captain America: The First Avenger
Marvel had a sweaty job to do with this one. Introduce a character who is integral to this universe in the comics and about to be integral to the MCU's Endgame, make us understand and care in one film. And they do a really good job! A lot of this movie feels like it exists to make that work but given those constraints, they make a pretty cool, fun movie. I appreciate the structure, going for something different than I expected. That being said, it feels like it takes a bit to settle into the movie. I love that they eschew the typical origin story beats (hero gets powers, hero loses powers, hero learns to not need powers and thus gets them back). Instead it's a story about Carol Danvers learning and embracing who she is. What plays as a bit lifeless in the first act is later shown to be an unsure person suppressing her emotion (or trying to). I appreciated all the little nods to the female experience. Judging by some of the reviews, even though the movie is about a woman apparently putting in stuff women experience nearly daily is a political move. Yet another Marvel blockbuster that is interested in tackling "otherism," refugees and colonialism in a 4 quadrant movie, I admire that a lot. The emotional montage moment is a nice commentary on what it is to be human but it didn't feel fully earned to me. Ronan is pretty much wasted here, and also we knew nothing could happen to him, anyway. As a 90s kid, I enjoyed most of the 90s references. They accomplish nothing and usually the joke is "remember this" but I do remember that and so was usually entertained. Ben Mendelsohn and Jude Law are lights out. The way the movie plays with our expectations there is brilliant. The best part is that there's no slight of hand involved. It brings our biases to the forefront and asks us to examine them. And that's a good representation of this movie: a really fun movie with some interesting ideas that are there but not explored too deeply.
Roy Thomas, who co-created Carol Danvers, recently saw the movie and gave his review. It contains some spoilers. In a nutshell, he thought it was "good enough" but not one of the better Marvel movies, found it to not be as good as "Black Panther" or "Wonder Woman", and hated how the Skrulls were handled.
Just got back from watching Captain Marvel at a 10:30 A.M. showing–just my friends Jim and Karen Clark and a handful of other intrepid souls had ventured forth that early in the morning to see the film in 3D. I was giving 3D another go, despite the fact that, with my considerably impaired vision in my right eye, my 3D vision isn’t what it once was. But it was good enough.
And so was the film. The reviews are, I think, basically right: It’s not one of the better Marvel movies, not as good an origin as the recent Black Panther (or, dare I say it, the Warner/DC Wonder Woman movie), but it’s entertaining, especially as a setup of things to come–and very soon, at that–in Avengers: Endgame. Brie Larson was fine, although she wasn’t given all that much emotional stuff to do… seeing her and a younger Samuel Jackson interacting was a worthwhile experiment… and there were lots of nice touches along the way. Along with the usual fantastic CGI action sequences. Actually, the one thing I really hated in the film was turning the Skrulls into a peace-loving race, with the Kree as the heavies. As far as I’m concerned as the principal conceptualizer of the Kree/Skrull War (and I suspect Stan Lee and Jack Kirby would’ve agreed with me), the Skrulls and the Kree are each as bad as each other, as they say. Having the Skrulls all mushy and family-friendly at the end left a bad taste in my mouth… but I loved ’em for most of the movie, when they were doing shape-shifting stuff that looked (and as far as I’m concerned, were) downright evil.
Still, Yon-Rogg turned out to be appropriately vile, and that’s all well and good. I’m sorry the movie folks didn’t use my improved Kree/Skrull War term for the Kree’s Supreme Intelligence–i.e., Intelligence Supreme–but that’s simply because “Supreme Intelligence” has always just sound to me like an IQ score, not the name of an intergalactic AI entity.
All in all, Captain Marvel charged me up for Avengers: Endgame–even if they’re gonna put the Hulk in a space suit, and the Black Widow still has that ridiculous suddenly-blonde hair.
Though not the household name like Stan Lee, he is in many respects Stan's heir. He pretty much wrote every Marvel title after Stan and was editor in chief of the Marvel line. And if I am being honest, Stan (along with Kirby and Ditko) may have been a creative genius for concepts and characters, but Thomas was the superior writer.
Roy Thomas (along with Gerry Conway) is a Comic Legend who deserves far more recognition and respect. I love they gave him a cameo in season three of Daredevil!
Anyway, I am off topic.... lol
I agree with Thomas' review. As for the Skrulls, this movie only focuses on one small group/family. Nothing to say there are not evil Skrulls out there too.
