Moe_Syzlak
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Do they really
If so... *loud groan!*
use No Doubt’s I’m just A Girl?
If so... *loud groan!*
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Captain Marvel 2019
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Hymie
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Moe_Syzlak said:
Yeah, I feel it works but I guess if you go in expecting this to be a preachy feminist movie it will annoy you. It fit the scene well and the movie doesn't really push this idea of feminism like the internet would have you believe. Carol goes through real obstacles that women go through, but the film never does anything to push anything other than a strong character (regardless of gender).
ChainsawAsh
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It was way more about learning not to define yourself through others and be your own person, trusting in your own abilities.
But because it's a woman learning this stuff and most of the people she's trying to "prove herself" to are men, anyone who's looking for a "feminist agenda" will see the message of the film as that.
Wonder Woman had a much more overtly feminist message than Captain Marvel did.
But because it's a woman learning this stuff and most of the people she's trying to "prove herself" to are men, anyone who's looking for a "feminist agenda" will see the message of the film as that.
Wonder Woman had a much more overtly feminist message than Captain Marvel did.
Moe_Syzlak
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Hymie said:
I’m not expecting it to be preachy. I probably won’t see this until it hits cable, if then. But that has more to do with general dislike for the MCU. It’s all paint by number to me with little to no emotional impact. But
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Marvel movies...
Some are safe and formulaic...
Some push the super hero envelope...
But for me, all entertain on some level or other.
Just returned from the matinee, and I would say CAPTAIN MARVEL falls somewhere in the middle.
Yes, it feels like a Phase One movie. But that is to be expected and even appropriate, considering it is an Origin movie. Origin movies are the most formula prone, as the Hero's Journey has a fairly rigid classical narrative. So you sort of go into these types of movies expecting certain specific tropes and moments, and Captain Marvel delivers most of them well.
The "You're only Human" moment, though spoiled a bit in the trailers, still succeeds to inspire and give the feels.
Brie Larson is very likeable and gives a solid performance. Now that the origin angst part is out of the way, I am really excited to see what she does with the role. Her chemistry with Jackson was excellent, and I would say the comedic element was handled very well, much better than in the recent Infinity War or Ragnarok imo.
I liked the fresh spin on the Skrulls, and Mendelsohn is a pure delight. Though no where near as awesome as Goose the Cat!!!
The CGI in this movie is one of Marvel's better efforts. Certainly more balanced than Black Panther. Though I found the alien planet and spaceship fight scenes very darkly lit and difficult to follow.
The soundtrack, as with most Marvel movies, is functional. I don't recall there being a Hero Theme, if there was, it was instantly forgettable. I did like the 90s music and thought the movie could have benefited with more of it. And where it was used, it could have been cranked up more to inject greater fun into those scenes.
There is no feminist social justice agenda or whatever other non-sense the Haters have been bombing the net about... it is a story about overcoming obstacles and being the best that you can be. A lesson that can be applied to anyone of any gender. If Captain Marvel inspires little girls (or little boys) to believe in themselves, all the better in my books.
As a movie, I thought the storytellers were successful in distilling a comic book character as convoluted as Captain Marvel into a clear simplified origin story. I think the movie made a lot of safe choices, and could have delved deeper into Carol Danvers as a character, but I was never bored during the movie.
On the Marvel Scale, I would give it an 7.5 out of 10.
Some are safe and formulaic...
Some push the super hero envelope...
But for me, all entertain on some level or other.
Just returned from the matinee, and I would say CAPTAIN MARVEL falls somewhere in the middle.
Yes, it feels like a Phase One movie. But that is to be expected and even appropriate, considering it is an Origin movie. Origin movies are the most formula prone, as the Hero's Journey has a fairly rigid classical narrative. So you sort of go into these types of movies expecting certain specific tropes and moments, and Captain Marvel delivers most of them well.
The "You're only Human" moment, though spoiled a bit in the trailers, still succeeds to inspire and give the feels.
Brie Larson is very likeable and gives a solid performance. Now that the origin angst part is out of the way, I am really excited to see what she does with the role. Her chemistry with Jackson was excellent, and I would say the comedic element was handled very well, much better than in the recent Infinity War or Ragnarok imo.
I liked the fresh spin on the Skrulls, and Mendelsohn is a pure delight. Though no where near as awesome as Goose the Cat!!!
The CGI in this movie is one of Marvel's better efforts. Certainly more balanced than Black Panther. Though I found the alien planet and spaceship fight scenes very darkly lit and difficult to follow.
The soundtrack, as with most Marvel movies, is functional. I don't recall there being a Hero Theme, if there was, it was instantly forgettable. I did like the 90s music and thought the movie could have benefited with more of it. And where it was used, it could have been cranked up more to inject greater fun into those scenes.
There is no feminist social justice agenda or whatever other non-sense the Haters have been bombing the net about... it is a story about overcoming obstacles and being the best that you can be. A lesson that can be applied to anyone of any gender. If Captain Marvel inspires little girls (or little boys) to believe in themselves, all the better in my books.
As a movie, I thought the storytellers were successful in distilling a comic book character as convoluted as Captain Marvel into a clear simplified origin story. I think the movie made a lot of safe choices, and could have delved deeper into Carol Danvers as a character, but I was never bored during the movie.
On the Marvel Scale, I would give it an 7.5 out of 10.
addiesin
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Zarius said:
Understood why you'd feel that way, but if you're not sure why people are so kind to these movies, I have a few insights to share.
They're fun, this one's the most obvious. When people have a good time, they generally ignore or forgive what would otherwise be considered flaws or imperfections and just go along for the ride. Nobody criticizes the color of roller coaster tracks, right?
But when I say "they're fun" I also mean marketing did their homework, so the movies fill the required mainstream-appeal "shape" and audience expectations are managed from 10 years and 20 films of consistency, so they basically know what they'll get out of a Marvel film, which boils down in simple terms to "they're fun".
A lot of people have an emotional connection to the comic characters or to animated or low-budget live-action versions of them. Seeing them in big-budget feature films with flashy special effects that render their powers close enough to "photorealistic" is still novel to people with that connection (even after 10 years and 20 films of consistency). Marvel's focus is almost always on the like-able protagonist. It's rarely focused on the villain, the plot, the structure, or the minutiae. The end result is people get to watch these characters they love do that stuff they always knew they could and it looks just like they imagined back when they actually had/used their imaginations. That's sort of a nostalgia thing, call it wish-fulfillment, call it rose-tinted glasses.
Either scenario above could apply to many films. Then this is Marvel, so there's an overlap of both scenarios at once. At least that's what I think it is. The formula is easy to recognize:
Fun Right Now + Feelings From Back Then (or Like-able Enough Protagonist) = Satisfied General Audience
Moe_Syzlak
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Sooo McDonald’s?
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Well said @"addiesin" !!!
I am in complete agreement. And I definitely fall into both scenarios.
I don't judge all movies with the same criteria. My expectations of a Marvel (or any superhero) movie are different than a more serious dramatic movie, say like Three Billboards or Black Klansman. Thus, my ranking scale is completely different.
And as I said before, you can enjoy, even love, a movie, tv show, book, music album, etc, even though you know technically or critically it is not considered "good".
I am in complete agreement. And I definitely fall into both scenarios.
I don't judge all movies with the same criteria. My expectations of a Marvel (or any superhero) movie are different than a more serious dramatic movie, say like Three Billboards or Black Klansman. Thus, my ranking scale is completely different.
And as I said before, you can enjoy, even love, a movie, tv show, book, music album, etc, even though you know technically or critically it is not considered "good".
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I don't like superhero, comic book, whatever movies. Or rather, I don't care.
But if they look fun and people seem to like them, I'll go see them.
But if they look fun and people seem to like them, I'll go see them.
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bionicbob said:[...] you can enjoy, even love, a movie, tv show, book, music album, etc, even though you know technically or critically it is not considered "good".
Absolutely! Escapism is full of those. Doc Savage and most heroes from the 30s started life as pure escapism from Depression-era reality.
Though really the formula is timeless. Remember this boyhood gem?
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lapis molari said:bionicbob said:[...] you can enjoy, even love, a movie, tv show, book, music album, etc, even though you know technically or critically it is not considered "good".
Absolutely! Escapism is full of those. Doc Savage and most heroes from the 30s started life as pure escapism from Depression-era reality.
Though really the formula is timeless. Remember this boyhood gem?
Remember and LOVE!
I transfered my old VHS recordings to DVD years ago. Still I keep hoping it will get a proper DVD release like TALES OF THE GOLD MONKEY did.
And Marvel Movies definitely fall into the Escapism category.
addiesin
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Moe_Syzlak said:
Not sure how serious you are, but yes. This is actually not a bad analogy.
Not all your food should be McDonald's and you can't expect to get the best possible nutritional value from it. Not everyone likes it, to the extent that some have a negative psychosomatic reaction (like slight nausea) upon hearing the name or seeing the logo, but financially it's a huge success. For most people it's a "fine" sometimes-meal. And for some, it's all they eat because they love it despite knowing it's McDonald's.
Not all your entertainment should be Marvel and you can't expect Citizen Kane from it. Not everyone likes it, to the extent that some have a knee-jerk reaction (like comparing to another movie company or movies based on another comic company) upon hearing the name or seeing the logo, but financially it's a huge success. For most people it's a "fine" theatrical outing. And for some, it's simply their favorite thing ever and they build their identity around that.
I advocate for moderation, but in practice I'm a bit of a superhero fanboy, admittedly.
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Can't escapism be considered art though? I'm not saying they're all art, in fact it is rare that one can consider these movies art, especially most MCU movies. But movies like Logan, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Richard Donner's Superman, The Dark Knight Trilogy, every Spider-Man movie except 3 & Homecoming, even Iron Man and Captain America: The Winter Soldier, I consider to be legitimately great, well written movies. Heck, even often criticized superhero movies like Superman Returns, Spider-Man 3, Man of Steel, and Batman v Superman all attempt to be thematically rich, good movies. Depends on you whether it succeeds or not.
What makes escapism movies like superhero movies, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc. so different than "serious/realistic movies" other than having an exaggerated reality? Sure you might not be able to take them seriously if you don't really enjoy these exaggerated realities (though I personally don't understand how someone could love Star Wars but not like superhero movies, they're basically the same... No offense though @"TVs Frink"), but putting them in the "Escapism" category, calling them fun with no substance, and basically rendering them worthless is prejudice against these movies, which I think is ridiculous.
Sure, most of these movies range from just decent (Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man 2, Ant-Man, The Wolverine etc.) to terrible (Justice League, Fant4stic, Suicide Squad, Elektra etc.) but that doesn't mean the genre itself is inherently flawed and the films can never be truly great. Again, The Dark Knight, Logan, Black Panther, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the King are all "escapism movies" and they all proved that they can be considered truly great movies, even as some of the greatest movies of all time.
So I don't believe that these films shouldn't be considered great. The fact that these movies are intended for teenagers doesn't mean it can't be appreciated for its critical value either, unlike what people like Bill Maher would say. And I certainly don't agree with the McDonald's analogy.
What makes escapism movies like superhero movies, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings etc. so different than "serious/realistic movies" other than having an exaggerated reality? Sure you might not be able to take them seriously if you don't really enjoy these exaggerated realities (though I personally don't understand how someone could love Star Wars but not like superhero movies, they're basically the same... No offense though @"TVs Frink"), but putting them in the "Escapism" category, calling them fun with no substance, and basically rendering them worthless is prejudice against these movies, which I think is ridiculous.
Sure, most of these movies range from just decent (Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man 2, Ant-Man, The Wolverine etc.) to terrible (Justice League, Fant4stic, Suicide Squad, Elektra etc.) but that doesn't mean the genre itself is inherently flawed and the films can never be truly great. Again, The Dark Knight, Logan, Black Panther, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the King are all "escapism movies" and they all proved that they can be considered truly great movies, even as some of the greatest movies of all time.
So I don't believe that these films shouldn't be considered great. The fact that these movies are intended for teenagers doesn't mean it can't be appreciated for its critical value either, unlike what people like Bill Maher would say. And I certainly don't agree with the McDonald's analogy.
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Look, I don't know much about this movie, so maybe I'm way off base, but this
sounds like a ridiculous thing to claim.
Also putting The Dark Knight amongst the greatest movies of all time, but that's a different matter.
Finally, I thought it was obvious from my short to-the-point post, but I just don't care that much. Whatever. It sounds good, I'll see it, if not, no. I don't care if it's high art or not or if it's classified as escapism but it's really fine art or it's somewhere in the middle or whatever. Don't care.
Masirimso17 said:
sounds like a ridiculous thing to claim.
Also putting The Dark Knight amongst the greatest movies of all time, but that's a different matter.
Finally, I thought it was obvious from my short to-the-point post, but I just don't care that much. Whatever. It sounds good, I'll see it, if not, no. I don't care if it's high art or not or if it's classified as escapism but it's really fine art or it's somewhere in the middle or whatever. Don't care.
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addiesin said:
Spoken like a true ex-moderator.
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Masirimso17 said:
As someone who is more aligned with Frink's thoughts here, I'm going to chime in. I personally see a big difference between Star Wars (mostly original and sequel trilogies) and much of the superhero genre.
I too like escapism, but I need to be able to believe that what I'm seeing on screen could actual occur in our known reality. I think there are many examples in sci-fi and fantasy where this has been achieved, and even more where it has failed. Peter Jackson is someone who has produced work on the same subject matter that has been both fairly believable (LOTR trilogy) and ridiculously over-the-top (Hobbit films).
I also prefer character pieces and get pretty bored with the action is cranked to 11 for extended periods of time. I really appreciate when sci-fi/fantasy creates great character films set in hyper-exaggerated realities. Logan and Rogue One are great examples of this, and even many of the Harry Potter films align more with what I like from my "make believe" escapist adventures.
With rare exception (e.g., Guardians of the Galaxy), I'm just not able to buy into most superhero films the way I do with some sci-fi or other genres of fantasy. People in tights flying around making cheeky comments is just not my cup of tea. I get why some people love that, but for me, I just find it cliched and boring.
I enjoyed Iron Man up until the third act, but then the climactic action scene just became absurd. And this is a film that people point to as being a more character driven toned down action/superhero film.
I haven't seen Captain Marvel, and I really don't have much interest. I have nothing against these films, and I would not say that they don't have substance. It seems like a few of these recent superhero films have some great underlying themes (e.g., Wonder Woman, Black Panther). I just do not enjoy the medium with which these themes are being delivered. I wish I could love superhero/action films as much as many people do. But alas, it ain't in the cards.