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Avengers: Endgame

I'm predicting this will be the new "where men cried" movie.
 
I'm predicting all the ones who died in the last one will be resurrected and all the ones who didn't WILL really die (or live in an alternate universe so Marvel can use them once in a while cause they love cheating anyway).
 
TMBTM said:
I'm predicting all the ones who died in the last one will be resurrected and all the ones who didn't WILL really die (or live in an alternate universe so Marvel can use them once in a while cause they love cheating anyway).
Click to expand...

All of the characters will be resurrected as younger movie stars.  :p
 
Yay, Hawkeye is back! (said nobody). :D

Great trailer.
 
Awesome trailer, cool shots, meh on the New "Quantum Realm"/Avenger costumes.
 
I am, admittedly, not a close follower of these movies. But I’m confused as to what Thanos’ motivation is. He wiped out half the population right? To what end? To set back human population to 1974 levels? Seems a bit shortsighted, no?
 
Moe_Syzlak said:
I am, admittedly, not a close follower of these movies. But I’m confused as to what Thanos’ motivation is. He wiped out half the population right? To what end? To set back human population to 1974 levels? Seems a bit shortsighted, no?
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Thanos grew up in Titan, a world where overpopulation was a huge problem. As the resources are finite and the planet continued to suffer, Thanos came to the conclusion that everything in the world must be in balance, even the amount of people in the planet. So he suggested random, “fair” genocide of half the population of the planet. He was exiled as a result. In the end, Titan ran out of resources and life ceased to exist. Thanos’ homeworld became a desolate wasteland.

That is why Thanos became convinced that for the universe to stay in balance, the life in the universe must also stay in balance. As he journeyed across the cosmos to bring that balance to each world, he came to realize most worlds have overpopulated and he has to save it before it is all consumed. The quickest and most painless way to kill half the population of the universe (and finally put his crusade to rest and retire, watching the sunrise) would be to collect all the Infinity Stones and snap.

That’s the answer, but below this is me rambling and raving about it.

The scary thing is, Thanos is right. This universe, and its resources, are finite. How could you keep the universe balanced? The Infinity Stones are powerful, sure, but you can’t create things from thin air. That’s just basic Physics. Oh, you can definitely change things, like a gun blast to bubbles. But even if you change things to food and resources, feed the overpopulated, those things are still going to end. This way is going to ensure that life will go on forever, balanced, and happy, as long as Thanos passes the torch to future generations, which is I believe why he adopted Gamora and Nebula, and made them battle each other to get stronger. Unforunately, as great a character Thanos is, he definitely is not a good father :D

In the end, as Natasha said at the end of Age of Ultron, “Nothing lasts forever”.  Of course one should fight to ensure life goes on, but not to the extent of genocide. That is what the Avengers are fighting for. This is a selfish point of view, but naturally so. Thanos represents a selfless, but sacrificial point of view. Sure the initial shock of losing half the planet is traumatizing, but the people will move on.

But not the Avengers.

Not them.
 
Okay but wouldn’t it be better to wipe out 7/8th the population thus creating a longing lasting effect than 45 years? Arguably the population had reached an exponential tipping point long bedore it hit 4B in 1974.
 
Thanos is right that resources are finite, but arbitrarily selecting 50% of everything to wipe out is insane. Maybe some planets were in balance already. Maybe some had 90% too many people. Maybe he should have used that same power to increase resources instead!
 
Moe_Syzlak said:
Okay but wouldn’t it be better to wipe out 7/8th the population thus creating a longing lasting effect than 45 years? Arguably the population had reached an exponential tipping point long bedore it hit 4B in 1974.
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It’s all about balance. Sure Thanos believes the universe needs cleansing, but too much death would this time be unfair, which is why Thanos commits genocide, but random, unbiased, fair to all. He probably believes, though sacrifices have to be made, if he goes beyond half of life it wouldn’t be a fair, balanced way of doing it.
 
asterixsmeagol said:
Thanos is right that resources are finite, but arbitrarily selecting 50% of everything to wipe out is insane. Maybe some planets were in balance already. Maybe some had 90% too many people. Maybe he should have used that same power to increase resources instead!
Click to expand...

It is not selected arbitrarily per se. More like necessarily. All of life in the universe is randomly cut in half. No one knows how it happens, not even Thanos. If he did, and the snap killed people according to percentages in each planet, then that wouldn’t be random or fair, it would be biased. The point is, the universe is balanced, and no world is overpopulated.

I’m not good at math, but I’m not sure I understand what “90% too many people” means though. 90% too many compared to what? Titan is an example of a world where the overpopulation destroyed itself. It seems to me that if a world hasn’t destroyed itself, killing half it’s population would fix its overpopulation problem. For example; Earth is a world where the population is extremely high and if it is not controlled somehow, will get to the point of uncontrollable chaos.

And about increasing resources, again...

Masirimso17 said:
The Infinity Stones are powerful, sure, but you can’t create things from thin air. That’s just basic Physics. Oh, you can definitely change things, like a gun blast to bubbles. But even if you change things to food and resources, feed the overpopulated, those things are still going to end. This way is going to ensure that life will go on forever, balanced, and happy, as long as Thanos passes the torch to future generations, which is I believe why he adopted Gamora and Nebula, and made them battle each other to get stronger.
Click to expand...

Let me know if I’m mistaken about something.
 
Masirimso17 said:
Moe_Syzlak said:
Okay but wouldn’t it be better to wipe out 7/8th the population thus creating a longing lasting effect than 45 years? Arguably the population had reached an exponential tipping point long bedore it hit 4B in 1974.
Click to expand...

It’s all about balance. Sure Thanos believes the universe needs cleansing, but too much death would this time be unfair, which is why Thanos commits genocide, but random, unbiased, fair to all. He probably believes, though sacrifices have to be made, if he goes beyond half of life it wouldn’t be a fair, balanced way of doing it.
Click to expand...

But what’s the point? Eliminating half of 8B people forestalls over population how!? It’s  like stepping on the surface of an anthill to try to eliminate an ant problem in your yard. You may arbitrarily and randomly kill some, but it does zilch for the actual problem at hand. Maybe what SHIELD needs is a super exponents tutor to spend some time with Thanos.
 
math is hard, mmkay

giphy.gif
 
Moe_Syzlak said:
Masirimso17 said:
Moe_Syzlak said:
Okay but wouldn’t it be better to wipe out 7/8th the population thus creating a longing lasting effect than 45 years? Arguably the population had reached an exponential tipping point long bedore it hit 4B in 1974.
Click to expand...

It’s all about balance. Sure Thanos believes the universe needs cleansing, but too much death would this time be unfair, which is why Thanos commits genocide, but random, unbiased, fair to all. He probably believes, though sacrifices have to be made, if he goes beyond half of life it wouldn’t be a fair, balanced way of doing it.
Click to expand...

But what’s the point? Eliminating half of 8B people forestalls over population how!? It’s  like stepping on the surface of an anthill to try to eliminate an ant problem in your yard. You may arbitrarily and randomly kill some, but it does zilch for the actual problem at hand. Maybe what SHIELD needs is a super exponents tutor to spend some time with Thanos.
Click to expand...

Oh it isn’t permanent for sure. But it seems to him that postponing the end forever by killing half of the population randomly is the best way. The motivation works. Imo that is why he adopts and trains Gamora and Nebula, to continue the cycle of the snap from generation to generation, protecting the gauntlets and stones and snapping when things get out of hand again. That part doesn’t work in the end, both Gamora and Nebula hate him. HOWEVER, he can keep himself young with the gauntlet, and judging by his actions he’s willing to take, I bet he’s willing to do this forever.
 
Masirimso17 said:
asterixsmeagol said:
Thanos is right that resources are finite, but arbitrarily selecting 50% of everything to wipe out is insane. Maybe some planets were in balance already. Maybe some had 90% too many people. Maybe he should have used that same power to increase resources instead!
Click to expand...

It is not selected arbitrarily per se. More like necessarily. All of life in the universe is randomly cut in half. No one knows how it happens, not even Thanos. If he did, and the snap killed people according to percentages in each planet, then that wouldn’t be random or fair, it would be biased. The point is, the universe is balanced, and no world is overpopulated.

I’m not good at math, but I’m not sure I understand what “90% too many people” means though. 90% too many compared to what? Titan is an example of a world where the overpopulation destroyed itself. It seems to me that if a world hasn’t destroyed itself, killing half it’s population would fix its overpopulation problem. For example; Earth is a world where the population is extremely high and if it is not controlled somehow, will get to the point of uncontrollable chaos.

It is not selected arbitrarily per se. More like necessarily. All of life in the universe is randomly cut in half. No one knows how it happens, not even Thanos. If he did, and the snap killed people according to percentages in each planet, then that wouldn’t be random or fair, it would be biased. The point is, the universe is balanced, and no world is overpopulated.
Click to expand...

The exact 50% value is arbitrary. It assumes there is exactly twice the demand for resources as there is supply. I'm saying that in some places, supply and demand could be balanced already, and halving the population wouldn't accomplish anything except surplus supply, so you are now underpopulated. In other locations, there could be 10x demand relative so supply, so you would need to reduce the population by 90% to reach equilibrium. Halving the population in this situation leads to still having 5x demand to supply ratio so you are still overpopulated. If you don't want to do it by planet, the assumption that destroying exactly half of the population still doesn't work because there's no reason to think that there is exactly double the demand relative to the available supply in the universe.

Masirimso17 said:
And about increasing resources, again...

Masirimso17 said:
The Infinity Stones are powerful, sure, but you can’t create things from thin air. That’s just basic Physics. Oh, you can definitely change things, like a gun blast to bubbles. But even if you change things to food and resources, feed the overpopulated, those things are still going to end. This way is going to ensure that life will go on forever, balanced, and happy, as long as Thanos passes the torch to future generations, which is I believe why he adopted Gamora and Nebula, and made them battle each other to get stronger.
Click to expand...

Let me know if I’m mistaken about something.
Click to expand...

Who's to say that the magic stones can't create things from thin air? But even if they can't, he could alter all food-bearing plants to produce twice as much per acre, or adjust the metabolisms of everything to be reduced by half. Or he could transform rock into food, or reduce the fertility rates by half to reduce the population by half over the course of one generation.
 
Don't forget he's the mad Titan. He doesn't have to be right. He just has to think he's right.

Gamorra even calls him out during the film saying his plan won't work and he pulls something like, 'well you just don't understand it'. I'm paraphrasing, not quoting.
 
The best and most interesting analysis of the logic or lack thereof behind Thanos' plan that I've seen so far is this video:

 
Okay, well then why doesn’t Antman just climb up inside of Thanos and expand, exploding him everywhere. 

Okay okay, I’m just poking holes in silly movies because silly movies are silly and people who take them too seriously are silly.  This goes for franchises I actually like, too. Like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings.
 
the Thanos plan to wipe out half the population doesn't work because our subconscious brain realizes it's only surface level logic.  
though this whole idea of bringing balance to the Force... er, i mean, the universe is a lot better than his motivation in the comics.  there he just wanted to impress Death because he loved her.  
but it would be nice if we would get to hear how Thanos chooses which species to wipeout on an unbalanced planet.
everyone keeps saying he's destroying 50% of life, but i didn't see any trees, fields of wheat, dragonflies or cows turn to dust in the wind.
it could have even been a throwaway line from his right telekinetic hand Ebony Maw..... 
"it has been determined by The Great One that your species is a plague upon this planet, yadda yadda."  it's not like this line of thinking hasn't been done before.... i'm looking at you Matrix and Day Earth Stood Still.
so he gains his great power and feels its his great responsibility to wipe out 50% of life in the 'verse.  but ok, that "solves" nothing because now the life left also have half the resources available.  and that's assuming there is a 1 to 1 with each species on the planet.  you can't tell me humans out number mosquitoes.  there are more trees on the plant than people so now whatever humans are left have LESS trees to use than before.  and can you imagine what wiping out half the plankton will do to the whale population because there are certainly a lot more of those than whales.
but i'm in the school of thought that most flaws in movies can be erased with a single line of dialog.
i'm hoping Adam Warlock swoops in at the end of End Game to save the day and introduce us to the Infinity Watch.
i'm also hoping at the end of it all, the end credit zinger will be Mojo peering into our dimension, all the chaos having gained his attention, to look for slave warriors.  it would be an insane way to introduce mutants to the MCU.
 
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