variable framerate in blurays

[tremault]

So I am of the habit of buying movie digitally since my bluray drive had broken for a while and I find digital to be convenient as heck, but I bought a new bluray player a few months ago and trying to do better masters with it. I'm finding an issue with the framerates though. ideally I want to use the raw mkv from makemkv but I am finding these files have variable framerate and it's not working nicely with resolve, when I use conform lock to replace my original clips. some edit points are out by a frame and it's a little annoying. So I thought to myself.... maybe I should just convert them to a prores file with a fixed framerate? I'm not sure if this is the best, I am potentially losing visual data here and maybe I should just suck it up and simply adjust those edit points that are a frame out? or maybe that would be setting myself up for real framerate problems with rendering?
What do ya'll think? How do you normally go about this?

 

[Gieferg]

I've never encountered such thing as variable framerate in any blu-ray and I have hundreds of them. I dont think the problem is caused by that.

 

[tremault]

oh my goodness, you're spot on. it's not the bluray. this is what mediainfo says....

so this happened when I either remuxed the mkv with my downsampled prologic audio in mkvtoolnix or when i remuxed both into an mp4 container in ffmpggui so resolve would import it.
Thanks for the info!!!

 

[asterixsmeagol]

YES
I just went through this whole ordeal.

Video Stuttering

bionicbob pointed out a strange video playback issue in my Picard edit that I think is due an issue in Vegas. Most of the video playback is fine, but a few random segments have stuttering video, as if they are playing at the wrong frame rate. These segments to not correspond to specific clips in...

forums.fanedit.org

 

[tremault]

YES
I just went through this whole ordeal.

Video Stuttering

bionicbob pointed out a strange video playback issue in my Picard edit that I think is due an issue in Vegas. Most of the video playback is fine, but a few random segments have stuttering video, as if they are playing at the wrong frame rate. These segments to not correspond to specific clips in...

forums.fanedit.org

ah wow.. you certainly had a lot of annoying issues there! This might make me regret getting my bluray drive and want to stick with just buying digital... But I do want quality. maybe it is just a good idea to convert to prores? I generally convert my digital rips to prores anyway, and I generally don't have any problems there. A very slight potential risk of loss of information is worth it I reckon.

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

ah wow.. you certainly had a lot of annoying issues there! This might make me regret getting my bluray drive and want to stick with just buying digital... But I do want quality. maybe it is just a good idea to convert to prores? I generally convert my digital rips to prores anyway, and I generally don't have any problems there. A very slight potential risk of loss of information is worth it I reckon.

Digital is convenient, but often 1/4 of the quality/fidelity of a physical HD version.

The less you do to the source file, the better.
I do MakeMKV then drop that into txMuxer to take it out of the MKV container and mux it the original state of the source m2ts file. I wish MakeMKV could just rip it without putting it into the MKV container since I just do that anyway after it decrypts the disc.

 

[asterixsmeagol]

I'm not sure what your process was, but it seems in the end my problem was caused by remuxing from the ripped mkv to mp4 with AVIDemux. Using Shutter instead and using the conform to framerate option (selecting 24 fps) should give the correct end result. However, I had just finished going through my workaround solution and getting rid of all of my flash frames so I didn't want to re-rip and re-remux to rebuild the whole edit again.

At some point I may go back and do that, as well as try rebuilding the soundtrack for some less-than-perfect edited sections for a v2, but I have some other projects I've moved on to for now.

 

[tremault]

Digital is convenient, but often 1/4 of the quality/fidelity of a physical HD version.

The less you do to the source file, the better.
I do MakeMKV then drop that into txMuxer to take it out of the MKV container and mux it the original state of the source m2ts file. I wish MakeMKV could just rip it without putting it into the MKV container since I just do that anyway after it decrypts the disc.

I may try this. I have no idea if Resolve accepts m2ts files, but if it does, this may be a super powered option!! cheers

 

[DigModiFicaTion]

I may try this. I have no idea if Resolve accepts m2ts files, but if it does, this may be a super powered option!! cheers

I would think it would. MKV is simply a container for the m2ts file that's inside it.
Edit
Looks like m2ts isn't supported....weird.

 

[unfair]

oh my goodness, you're spot on. it's not the bluray. this is what mediainfo says....

so this happened when I either remuxed the mkv with my downsampled prologic audio in mkvtoolnix or when i remuxed both into an mp4 container in ffmpggui so resolve would import it.
Thanks for the info!!!

I use Premiere, but in recent testing I noticed an issue when using the MOV container, it had to do with the Bit Rate mode being variable, not the Frame Rate (at least as far as I can tell). I normally don't see any issues with MP4 files, but you're using Resolve so maybe it has a similar issue with those. My fix is to do a lossless re-encode (using ffmpeg, but you could use Shutter if it's easier) and use that file - but those are huge so I don't know if that will work for you or not.

You really only need the lossless version for the final encode though, so you could encode a small file-size version for making the edit then just replace it with the huge version once you're ready to output.

 

[Possessed]

A bit of an off topic rant/tangent, but variable frame rate is a stupid concept that I don't understand why it even became a thing. Variable bit rate is a marvelous invention, both for video, and for music (theoretically should be for movie audio too but for some reason most blu ray specs don't like it which is dumb) but variable frame rate is an entirely stupid concept. For one thing you'd likely never even get the intended "true" frame rate anyway because most displays have to shut off and recalibrate for a second or two for a true frame rate change (my projector takes a good 5 seconds or so which is no big deal but it sure would be if it registered every small frame rate change in the signal. .. which it probably wouldn't which leads into my next point) so every display would probably resample it to 60 hz anyway which isn't divisible by 24 so every feature film would get a bit of stuttering and any variable frame rate would just in my opinion be an unnecessary complication and any decreased file size wouldn't be worth it at all.

Yes I know this is off topic and the rant uncalled for. Blame your local government or something.

 

[tremault]

A bit of an off topic rant/tangent, but variable frame rate is a stupid concept that I don't understand why it even became a thing. Variable bit rate is a marvelous invention, both for video, and for music (theoretically should be for movie audio too but for some reason most blu ray specs don't like it which is dumb) but variable frame rate is an entirely stupid concept. For one thing you'd likely never even get the intended "true" frame rate anyway because most displays have to shut off and recalibrate for a second or two for a true frame rate change (my projector takes a good 5 seconds or so which is no big deal but it sure would be if it registered every small frame rate change in the signal. .. which it probably wouldn't which leads into my next point) so every display would probably resample it to 60 hz anyway which isn't divisible by 24 so every feature film would get a bit of stuttering and any variable frame rate would just in my opinion be an unnecessary complication and any decreased file size wouldn't be worth it at all.

Yes I know this is off topic and the rant uncalled for. Blame your local government or something.

I actually found a post that goes into it a few weeks ago. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads...-makes-output-frame-rate-variable#post2651389
It's a little frustrating but it goes some way to explaining why vfr is a thing... although I stll don't completely understand it.

 

[Mnm]

You might have luck with frameserving to your Resolve or Premiere, depending what you use. I believe someone here, over a decade ago advised me to index my video files and create avisynth script (MeGUI can index files nicely) I think that can then be mounted as a virtual file (Pismo file manager, is what I use to mount these). As long as your source is SDR, I believe this should be fine. You can avoid unnecessary conversions and needed diskspace for larger intermediate ProRes file, this way. The HDR I don't think would work with this, though I might need to read up more on it, it should be possible...

This was especially useful back in the days of interlaced DVDs where you could deinterlace, or even apply other corrections in avisynth to it, without the need to re-encode...

Just something you might find useful, I guess.

 

[tremault]

You might have luck with frameserving to your Resolve or Premiere, depending what you use. I believe someone here, over a decade ago advised me to index my video files and create avisynth script (MeGUI can index files nicely) I think that can then be mounted as a virtual file (Pismo file manager, is what I use to mount these). As long as your source is SDR, I believe this should be fine. You can avoid unnecessary conversions and needed diskspace for larger intermediate ProRes file, this way. The HDR I don't think would work with this, though I might need to read up more on it, it should be possible...

This was especially useful back in the days of interlaced DVDs where you could deinterlace, or even apply other corrections in avisynth to it, without the need to re-encode...

Just something you might find useful, I guess.

I hear what you're saying. I was thinking along these lines last night. What Dig was saying sounds like a similar solution, just get rid of the problematic containers.
I mean, if we just had the video frame by frame then we can tell the nle what the framerate should be and there would be zero issues.

 

[Possessed]

You can also pretty easily frameserve with virtualdub, or virtualdub2. I've used it to execute avisynth video filters in the past on footage that I was later going to edit and thus re render after editing and thus framesErving it skipped a generation of encoding without having to have a huge lossless quality file size.