Superman III - The Definitive Smallville Cut

[Ollie W]

Well this is my first post on the forum so a big hello to everyone.

Superman III the Smallville Cut:

Firstly let it be known that this is a review of FatherMerrin's initial cut of Superman III, I have not seen the revised edition.

Prologue was a nice way of setting up the premise of the film but too long nevertheless. STM is my favourite film of all time but there?s no need to show footage right untill Jonathan?s passing. I reckon just a quick showing of Clark and Lana on the football field would be sufficient.

The audio transition from Smallville to the main titles is a bit rough, the two pieces don?t quite go together.

I really enjoyed the handling of the Gus material things aren?t left to linger and it all plays out nicely. Gus becomes just another character, rather than having the film revolve around him.

Using the Clark morning scene didn?t quite work IMO. Firstly the footage is so rough that the illusion that this edit might be taken as a serious film is lost. Secondly the flashbacks seem incredibly out of place. Thirdly why is Lois calling Clark, isn?t she on vacation?

For me Superman III was ruined by Ross, Vera and Lorelei rather than Gus. They?re just such dull characters especially when compared to the funhouse that was Lex, Otis and Eve. The scene where Ross realises money has been stolen could?ve easily be cut. We have the scene where Gus meets Ross which is a perfect introduction of the characters. It would also create a little mystery regarding the man upstairs.

Loved what FM did regarding Columbia?s destruction. Now we don?t have to put up with the awful skiing off the building scene. A shame that more footage of Superman saving Columbia was not available, but I guess this couldn?t be helped.

Superman destroying the fortress came out of no where. Maybe it would?ve worked better if we had voice overs of Jor-El in Superman?s head and this was his way of getting rid of them.

I agree that the ending isn?t particularly strong, but inventive nevertheless. A few things didn?t work for example, how did Supes know who Gus was let alone where he was.

Superman going back to Smallville after the daily planet scene was a bit bumpy because there was no bridging scene. He talks about having lunch with Lana then he?s all the way back in Smallville.

The rebuilding of the Fortress could?ve really done with some Superman footage. Maybe after it?s built we could see the shot of Supes flying out (from STM), followed by him flying over the earth.

Well that?s it, I?ve always been a big believer that Superman III contains some really great material, especially with Superman and this edit does a good job of highlighting it. I?d be interested in seeing the revised version because I suspect many of my concerns will have been addressed but in any case this was a good effort by FM and I enjoyed his take on this material.

 

[boon23]

now that is what I call a cool first post.
Welcome to FE, WearneO.

 

[Zarius]

The rebuilding of the FOS is far more iconic leading into the ending shot of Superman flying over the Earth, adding an additional STM flying shot would just cheapen it. The ending served as the restoration of not just the Fourtress, but Superman, whole again.

 

[FatherMerrin]

Hi WearnO,

Welcome to the forum & thanks for your review. Hopefully my responses will lend some insight into the choices I made in the edit.

Prologue was a nice way of setting up the premise of the film but too long nevertheless. STM is my favourite film of all time but there?s no need to show footage right untill Jonathan?s passing.

On one level your right it's probably a bit too long. The reason I left in Jonthan's passing is because I wanted to show a deeper reason why in SIII Supe goes bad. I know it's because of the dodgy Kryptonite but I wanted to show that it wasn't just because of that. In SI & II he tragically loses both his fathers, which would scare anyone. I wanted to show that in the prelude & dream sequence so people might think that when he does turn bad it's because deep down there are things Superman is geniuenly angry about but is never allowed to show.

The audio transition from Smallville to the main titles is a bit rough, the two pieces don?t quite go together.

IMO it's fine, sorry.

I really enjoyed the handling of the Gus material things aren?t left to linger and it all plays out nicely. Gus becomes just another character, rather than having the film revolve around him.

Thanks. I'm not a Politically Correct person but I think showing Gus as unemployed bum was unneccasry & slightly racist.

Using the Clark morning scene didn?t quite work IMO. Firstly the footage is so rough that the illusion that this edit might be taken as a serious film is lost.

That's a bit harsh, there was nothing I could do with the rough quality. I think you've got to remember & take into account that it's a Fan Edit & as such we're a slave to the source material. Besides it's only a minute long scene, hardly grounds to dismiss the whole film as not being serious piece of work because of something like that & on something I had no control over.

Secondly the flashbacks seem incredibly out of place. Thirdly why is Lois calling Clark, isn?t she on vacation?.

Personally I don't think it's anymore out of place than the trippy "Lets go back through time & space" & "Can you read my Mind" scenes from SI. The vacation thing is sorted in my new version.

The scene where Ross realises money has been stolen could?ve easily be cut. We have the scene where Gus meets Ross which is a perfect introduction of the characters. It would also create a little mystery regarding the man upstairs.

Don't agree, if I did that I just would get complaints from people saying "How did Ross know it was Gus who stole the money" etc. Somethings are better left unexplained but I really don't see the harm in the 1st Gus scene.

Loved what FM did regarding Columbia?s destruction. Now we don?t have to put up with the awful skiing off the building scene. A shame that more footage of Superman saving Columbia was not available, but I guess this couldn?t be helped.

Thanks, you're bang on about the lack of Columbia stuff, it would of been nice but I couldn't find anything more.

Superman destroying the fortress came out of no where. Maybe it would?ve worked better if we had voice overs of Jor-El in Superman?s head and this was his way of getting rid of them.

I see your point, also I don't think it helps that the scene is so short. The problem was practically every other shot in that scene was Lois looking on, so I was left with little options. What I've done in the new version is put a couple of fortress shots in the dream sequence. In theory, it'll put across the idea that Supe's is traumatized over the deaths of his fathers & is gonna lash out, at the fortress.

I agree that the ending isn?t particularly strong, but inventive nevertheless. A few things didn?t work for example, how did Supes know who Gus was let alone where he was..

That's why I've re-done the edit. Inventive it might have been but from the feedback it's pretty clear it's not a satisfying ending, which is a POV I've come to agree with.

Superman going back to Smallville after the daily planet scene was a bit bumpy because there was no bridging scene. He talks about having lunch with Lana then he?s all the way back in Smallville.

I think that's being picky, I mean the guy's Superman. I know Fan Edits can suffer from plot holes, but surely it's not hard to imaging Clark having lunch with Lana then flying off to Smallville.

The rebuilding of the Fortress could?ve really done with some Superman footage. Maybe after it?s built we could see the shot of Supes flying out (from STM), followed by him flying over the earth..

I'm with Zarius on this, it IMO doesn't need a shot of Supes flying out. If I added that all I would hear then is people saying "How could Superman fly out of the Fortress he's just that second built?"

Well that?s it, I?ve always been a big believer that Superman III contains some really great material, especially with Superman and this edit does a good job of highlighting it. I?d be interested in seeing the revised version because I suspect many of my concerns will have been addressed but in any case this was a good effort by FM and I enjoyed his take on this material...

Hopefully the new version will give the satisfying ending people originaly wanted & I hope my responses give people a clearly idea as to what I was trying to achieve.

Thank you very much for sharing your views WearnO. I agree with boon23 that it was an excellent first post.

 

[Ollie W]

Thank you for your response FM, hope you didn't take any offence with some of my comments. There just opinions neither right nor wrong.

Overall I truly enjoyed it and felt you added something to the Superman III story.

 

[FatherMerrin]

No offence taken at all.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion & to voice their views. Constructive critism is always welcome & if there's somethings people can't agree on generally that's just down to a difference of opinion, like you said not who's right or who's wrong.

I'm just gratefull you took the time to download the movie & watched it never mind the fact you took the extra effort to share your thoughts on the film. There's a lot of Fan Edits that don't get any feedback at all, so thanks very much for taking the time.

 

[Erix]

Father Merrin:
I finally got around to watching your edit and I wanted to drop you some feedback. There are some minor criticisms but please take them in the good-natured constructive way they are intended.

First, some backstory: I've always had a bit of a soft spot for Superman III. I will freely admit that it's a shitty film that has no place within the Superman film mythology, but I am able to enjoy it as a "comedy" - an independent lark to pass the time. Many times, when getting drunk with friends have I quoted: "You never pass out, do you?... Nope, never!" and had a laugh.

That being said, I completely support what you wanted to do here. Why not have a Superman III that works better as a Superman film and can be included as part of the series free of embarrasment? In that respect, I think what you did works splendidly.

First, what I liked: (SPOILERS GALORE)

I liked your use of flashback footage to set up the story. It grounds it in the mythology we are used to, and it connects it nicely to the first two films, even though it goes a little long.

I also appreciated that you went through the trouble of designing all new credits. I would have thought you'd simply use the existing alternate space credits that were used in the Network TV version.

I think you did a great job in toning down Lester's slapstick excesses and the more cheesy aspects of Richard Pryor's humor. I understand that there wasn't much you could do about the lame General Patton impersonation as there was no other way to get that important plot point across.

You tightened up the film considerably and it flows a lot better now, has a faster to-the-point pace.

I thought using the footage of Superman saving Colombia as an action sequence, rather than intercut with Pryor's cartoonish telling of it was a nice touch.

Having "Bad Superman" destroy the fortress of solitude was a good idea. Frankly, I have no idea why they chose to make that part of the Donner Cut. It makes no sense and is one of the things I plan on "fixing" when I do my cut of the film.

Now... On to the quibbles:

Although I liked your idea of the intro I felt it went on a bit longer than it needed to. But this is a minor detail.

I didn't really understand the point of the dream sequence other than as a transition to show Clark waking up in Smallville and the phone call from Lois seems out of place as it is never followed up (at this point I thought you were going to incorporate more SIV footage involving Lois). In fact, there probably is more Superman IV footage you COULD have used to beef-up the movie a little bit more. I know there's another edit out there (I haven't seen it) called Superman Redeemed that does this, but it sounds like your version is better, as it manages to preserve the original plot of Superman III rather than ignoring it. (Superman IV as a whole, has a horrible plot and there's no use for it in the continuity).

Although I liked the Colombia action sequence, I think you need a better transition between that and the next scene. It feels a little bit abrupt, one minute he's fighting the weather and then BANG he's back in Smallville having a picnic with Lana. I understand it's supposed to be the next day or something, but maybe inserting another flying shot or having Webster complain about it BEFORE the picnic (having Gus hack the computer afterwards) would accomplish this.

That's all as far as technical things.
My last quibbles are from a story point of view. If your intention is to make this more "dark" and serious, you should go ahead and kill the bad guys at the end. He blows up the computer, killing Webster and his sister and that floozy along with it. I know Superman doesn't kill (though he did kill Zod and Co, didn't he?) but it wouldn't be on purpose and it would serve to fix the glaring problem that exists even in the original version... He flies Gus Gorman to safety, leaving the bad guys (who are presumably alive) behind?

Two: You might want to consider the destruction of the fortress to be the FIRST bad thing he does and then move on... and, do you really want to use the olympic torch gag? You didn't use the other ones (and I wouldn't have either... the tower of pisa bit makes me laugh, but is out of place in your "serious" version - the point being: Bad Superman basically just flies around playing mean practical jokes on people, the olympics included)

Three: You might want to consider deleting any specific references to Ma Kent being dead (there is a line about it during the high-school dance) but this is only if you want to respect Superman Returns as part of the continuity.

Anyway, all that is just a matter of personal taste. Overall, the fan edit works as a better Superman III, and it has inspired me to get on with my own fanedits as soon as possible.

One thing that may please you to know is my wife really enjoyed your version and she HATED the original Superman III. Even to the point of arguing that, despite horrible special effects, Superman IV is actually BETTER. So if you could make her like the movie, your mission was accomplished I think.

Over to you...

 

[FatherMerrin]

Hi Erix, thanks very much for posting your review. Hopefully you'll be happy with my answers.

I liked your use of flashback footage to set up the story. It grounds it in the mythology we are used to, and it connects it nicely to the first two films, even though it goes a little long.

I know what you mean about the flashback being a bit too long. I just left it the way it was because I wanted to show the relationships of Lana & Clark & his father & I thought it would be nice to see the Lois Lane deleted scene too.

I also appreciated that you went through the trouble of designing all new credits. I would have thought you'd simply use the existing alternate space credits that were used in the Network TV version.

Didn?t know about them. I was shown some white credits, which might be what you?re talking about, but the quality was really poor & unusable. I just kept mine simple & tried to make it as similar to those in SI.

I think you did a great job in toning down Lester's slapstick excesses and the more cheesy aspects of Richard Pryor's humor. I understand that there wasn't much you could do about the lame General Patton impersonation as there was no other way to get that important plot point across.

Yep, some scenes had to be left in. I actually cut the time of that scene in half, in the original he spends a good few minutes going on about the Government & a ?Plastic Gap? or something like that. So I cut all that out & went straight for the Kryptonite.

You tightened up the film considerably and it flows a lot better now, has a faster to-the-point pace.

That was just a result of deleting so many bad scenesJ, but thanks anyway.

I thought using the footage of Superman saving Colombia as an action sequence, rather than intercut with Pryor's cartoonish telling of it was a nice touch.

It was the only way around that piss poor Rooftop Scene. As you may of noticed the Rooftop Scene barely lasts a minute in my edit, in the film it?s quite a big scene. I think it?s one of those scenes that people really hate in SIII, so even though it?s v.short I think people appreciate why.

Having "Bad Superman" destroy the fortress of solitude was a good idea. Frankly, I have no idea why they chose to make that part of the Donner Cut. It makes no sense and is one of the things I plan on "fixing" when I do my cut of the film.

I know what you mean, I don?t know anyone who likes that scene in SII. That scene was Zarius?s idea from his shelved ?Junkyard Edit?. I?m pretty happy with the scene, it?s a shame it couldn?t last longer but unfortuantly half the shots in the original where of Lois looking on in horror, so once I took those shots out it didn?t leave much for rest of the scene. But, I think most Supe fans would be pleased to see a un-liked Donner scene used in a more appropriate way & it also sets up the scene at the end with the re-creating of the Fortress of Solitude. Which is a better way to end the film than in the original with Supe?s correcting the leaning Tower of Piza.

Now... On to the quibbles:

Although I liked your idea of the intro I felt it went on a bit longer than it needed to. But this is a minor detail.

It?s a good point. I?m glad I replaced the goofy start of SIII, but I couldn?t really see how to edit it down without turning it into a montage. So I thought I?ll use SI ?The Extended Edition? with the deleted scene with Lois Lane to make it a little different from what some people may have seen before. But, I had to end it with the death on the farm because it felt like the right place to end it. Also, I thought it might show why Supe would go bad, because it shows he could be emotionally scarred from losing his two dads. But, you?re right it?s too long,

I didn't really understand the point of the dream sequence other than as a transition to show Clark waking up in Smallville and the phone call from Lois seems out of place as it is never followed up (at this point I thought you were going to incorporate more SIV footage involving Lois). In fact, there probably is more Superman IV footage you COULD have used to beef-up the movie a little bit more. I know there's another edit out there (I haven't seen it) called Superman Redeemed that does this, but it sounds like your version is better, as it manages to preserve the original plot of Superman III rather than ignoring it. (Superman IV as a whole, has a horrible plot and there's no use for it in the continuity).

You?re right. I used it because I wanted the film to be mostly based in Smallville. I like the scene because you can see Clark being glad to be back home even though he?s had a traumatic event there. It?s also important because without that scene the final scene in the farm would probably feel out of place.

The Lois phone call was a little bit of a problem, I just look at it like this. Lois teased Clark with her Bikini & Bermuda Holiday & now she?s teasing him again by telling him ?Something big is going on? but not telling him what as she thinks it?s funny that Clark?s back in Smallville & he doesn?t know there?s a big story happening in Smallville whilst he?s there. It?s a bit weak I know, but I think it?s plausible.

I must admit I?m not fond of SIV & I made a point of just using the Smallville scenes as I felt they were the only SIV scenes that had soul. I?ve seen Superman Redeemed, it?s more an edit of both SIII or SIV. What ADM did was he took the two films to make one new film with a new plot. It?s an excellent experiment, not sure it works but it?s very smart what he did. But, it?s not an attempt to save SIII like my edit.

Although I liked the Colombia action sequence, I think you need a better transition between that and the next scene. It feels a little bit abrupt, one minute he's fighting the weather and then BANG he's back in Smallville having a picnic with Lana. I understand it's supposed to be the next day or something, but maybe inserting another flying shot or having Webster complain about it BEFORE the picnic (having Gus hack the computer afterwards) would accomplish this.

That?s an excellent point & I must admit it didn?t cross my mind. I suppose it could of worked, but then one problem could be that the Roof top scene is very very short, so to have that scene in between Superman?s scenes might of felt a bit choppy & ruin the flow. But, like I said I didn?t try it so it might of worked fine.

That's all as far as technical things.
My last quibbles are from a story point of view. If your intention is to make this more "dark" and serious, you should go ahead and kill the bad guys at the end. He blows up the computer, killing Webster and his sister and that floozy along with it. I know Superman doesn't kill (though he did kill Zod and Co, didn't he?) but it wouldn't be on purpose and it would serve to fix the glaring problem that exists even in the original version... He flies Gus Gorman to safety, leaving the bad guys (who are presumably alive) behind?

It?s a 50/50 thing I suppose. For every one person who would like to see them dead there would be another person saying ?Superman doesn?t kill?. I know some people don?t like the end of SII where the 3 baddies are killed (in fact there?s a deleted SII scene where the 3 baddies are taken away by the police), personally I?m not bothered either way. I suppose if they did die it would have been an accident, but then that would make Supe look clumsy. It?s a no win situation.

If you wanna see them dead you should see my Original Smallville edit. Seriously, they get blown up good & proper & there?s no doubt about it that they?re dead.J

Two: You might want to consider the destruction of the fortress to be the FIRST bad thing he does and then move on... and, do you really want to use the olympic torch gag? You didn't use the other ones (and I wouldn't have either... the tower of pisa bit makes me laugh, but is out of place in your "serious" version - the point being: Bad Superman basically just flies around playing mean practical jokes on people, the olympics included)

Not sure if I agree with that. The way I look at it Supe's transformation from good to bad should be gradual. So he should start with a minor thing like the olympic torch, build up to the fortress destruction & then completes his transformation with a environmental disaster. If I didn't use the olympic torch scene, then he would of went from being late to the bridge then suddenly destroying his home & an oil tanker & I'm not sure that would of been believable.

Three: You might want to consider deleting any specific references to Ma Kent being dead (there is a line about it during the high-school dance) but this is only if you want to respect Superman Returns as part of the continuity.

I don't like Superman Returns so that wasn't an issue for me. The SR version I'll probably keep is Superman Returns: Recut, Recolored, and Reborn because that's a clean break from the Reeve films.

Anyway, all that is just a matter of personal taste. Overall, the fan edit works as a better Superman III, and it has inspired me to get on with my own fanedits as soon as possible.

That?s good to hear man, I?m glad you liked it & it?s cool that my film has motivated you on in your own edits.

One thing that may please you to know is my wife really enjoyed your version and she HATED the original Superman III. Even to the point of arguing that, despite horrible special effects, Superman IV is actually BETTER. So if you could make her like the movie, your mission was accomplished I think.

Over to you...

That?s excellent, especially if she hated it the original. The way I look at it is, yes it?s an edit & yes it?s not perfect, but if the end result is an edited film that?s more enjoyable than the original then that?s mission accomplished.

Thanks for taking the time to download it & to write such a cool review.

 

[Erix]

Thanx for addressing my points directly.

Your arguments satisfy me. It seems you made the best version you possibly could. So go right ahead and stand by it.

I look forward to seeing more work from you in the future.

 

[Zarius]

In regards to Ma Kent's "death" references...I just pretend I dont hear them ^_^

 

[Erix]

Hey... Whatever works.

It really only matters if you care about Superman Returns. FM clearly doesn't, and that's just fine. As it stands, this fanedit is a nice complement to Donner's vision and completes it as cool "Trilogy."

 

[SCAReY]

Hi, I'm trying to download this edit (which sounds fantastic btw ), but the site that the dlc file points me to says
Download not available

Download permission denied by uploader. (0b67c2f5)

***LINK REMOVED***




I found this article that says that RapidShare have changed their default permissions. Could I respectfully request these be reset please.

Many thanks.

 

[TV's Frink]

Try sending a PM to the editor. He still checks in from time to time.

 

[SCAReY]

Thanks TV's Frink, I've done that too. Hopefully he can help with that error.