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Star Trek Kirkless Generations

boon23

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by CBB

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This is Star Trek Generations without Captain Kirk, but as a true NEXT GENERATIONS movie. Impossible? Nope.


original film name: Star Trek Generations
film studio name: Paramount
Date Original Film Was Released: 18 NOV 94
Date Edit Was Released: 16 MAY 06
Original Runtime: 118 min
New Runtime: 78 min
Amount of time Cut/Added:42 minutes cut, 2min added
Cuts removed/added/extended:

1. added Picard's family book intro from Generations specail edition
2. removed the entire beginning including the Enterprise B scenes
3. removed all Captain Kirk scenes in the Nexus and in the real world
4. removed Picard scenes with Kirk as well as Picard scenes after he could not defeat Soren the first time
5. removed Riker saying: "that was the flight James T. Kirk died on"
6. mirrored Kirk hitting Soren, because we needed a right hand to knock Soren down the hill.
7. added special warp-out-of-Nexus effect (video and sound)
8. removed end credits and created our own (the crew from Star Tek O.S. is not participating in our movie and there are many people who are worthy of saying thank you to)

DVD-Features:

1. Languages: English, German, Spanish, French, Italian
2. Subtitles: English, Spanish, Portugese, Swedish, Norwegian, Polish
3. Trailer
4. 3 Deleted Scenes (approx 40 mins)
5. Animated Menus
6. Scene Selection Menus
7. Cover and Disk Art
8. CBB Special

Conceptual improvements/advancements of edit over original: We do not hate Captain Kirk, but he spoiled this movie nevertheless. Although the beginnging is kind of nicely done, it is still not a worthy death for James T., so it had to be deleted. Our plan was to make this the first Next Generation's movie, filling all the plot holes between the TV show and the movie "First COntact". It was dificult was to make up a story without Kirk that would work, and since we did not want Picard to fight Soren two times with bare hands, the 50 gigawatts force field had to knock him out. Our edition is an improvement over the original, if you like Next Generation and did not like Captain Kirk in this movie. 42 minutes of cut footage is a lot, but for the pace of the movie it was good. See for yourself.

Time needed for the edition
planning: about 10 years/ 2 weeks finally
editing: 3 days
sound editing: 2 days
trailer: 1 day
DVD layout and features: 2 days
persons involved: 5
 

ab5tract

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You know this one has always been a "I'll download that one soon, but right now I'll get.." title for me. But checking the top rated edits recently, this one is holding up despite its age relative to most of the other top rated edits.

So I'll be grabbing this soon. Then CBB will face two reviews from the ab5tract: this one and the Braveheart cut.
 

Hymie

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I just watched it last night and did not like it nearly as much as I hoped I would. Here's my biggest gripes (I watched the avi so things may differ slighty on DVD).

- The main titles are hard to read completely. I also would have liked you to use the Generations music instead of FC theme.

- The audio cuts were heavily noticeable to me while watching and somewhat abrupt (may be caused b/c of avi).

- The deletion that Kirk died on the Enterprise-B was not handled well. A terrible slow-mo of Riker (for what reason?) should not have been
there.

- The final confrontation with Soran wasn't handled well, as you should have kept the initial stuff with him and Picard before the ring came, as
afterwords it drags down the pace and ruins the pacing. The shot of Kirk punching him also doesn't work, and while I know you need some-
thing to knock Soran down, a white sleeve and hair are an abrupt change from a bald Picard with a black sleeve.


I appreciate the idea, I just felt it could have been handled a bit better. Perhaps I'll try my own for my personal collection, as there are definitely some things I'd do differently.
 

boon23

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Hymie said:
I just watched it last night and did not like it nearly as much as I hoped I would. Here's my biggest gripes (I watched the avi so things may differ slighty on DVD).

- The main titles are hard to read completely. I also would have liked you to use the Generations music instead of FC theme.
it's an old edit. That's pretty much every excuse I have for it. I like the music though for the intro.

Hymie said:
- The audio cuts were heavily noticeable to me while watching and somewhat abrupt (may be caused b/c of avi).
I disagree to "heavily", but I have noticed that some are noticable especially when wearing headphones.

Hymie said:
- The deletion that Kirk died on the Enterprise-B was not handled well. A terrible slow-mo of Riker (for what reason?) should not have been there.
I disagree that it is "terrible". I remember trying a lot of different things for that scene. This worked best.

Hymie said:
- The final confrontation with Soran wasn't handled well, as you should have kept the initial stuff with him and Picard before the ring came, as afterwords it drags down the pace and ruins the pacing. The shot of Kirk punching him also doesn't work, and while I know you need some- thing to knock Soran down, a white sleeve and hair are an abrupt change from a bald Picard with a black sleeve.
The final confrontation with Soran does not work any other way. Using Kirk's arm for a lot less than a second for the final punch was not great, but it did the job. You can try yourself to pull this finale off better. Good luck.

Hymie said:
I appreciate the idea, I just felt it could have been handled a bit better. Perhaps I'll try my own for my personal collection, as there are definitely some things I'd do differently.
thanks for your comment. Good luck in trying it yourself and you should think about releasing it then.
 

Hymie

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I was just giving my two cents on the project. I don't know of any better way to edit the Soran fight (and don't think I said I could) I was just citing the fact that there was a flaw. I'm sure that people would want to be aware of such things as this if they are on the fence of acquiring this or not. The audio transitions I felt were fine up to the ending with Soran, where I felt they could have been merged better. If this edit was done today I'm sure it'd be fine (much as the title sequence) but I felt it necessary to give my opinions. All praise and no criticism doesn't help the process.
 

elbarto1

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Of course you are entitled to your opinion but I dont think its a "flaw" when the editor acknowledges its there but couldnt do anything else about it. Its not perfect, but its not what I'd call "flawed" (at least IMO).
I mean, for what he had to work with, the "kirk arm" gets the plot from A to B with very minimal holes/errors/etc.
 

buddythegoon

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Slow-mo Riker was a little odd, so was Picard's transition out of the Nexus.
I didn't even notice the white sleeve, or maybe I just decided not to notice it since it appeared for all of 1/10 of a second.

Slight oddities are to be expected and thus completely excusable when someone is making an edit of this magnitude. I didn't hate the movie before, but I really like it now. As other's have said before, it plays like a TNG episode with a humongous budget. I found myself breathing easier by the end, knowing that Capt. Kirk no longer gets killed by Malcolm McDowell. Kirk's death should not have ever been filmed, by anyone's hand. It should have been left open, or at least left the way it was in the brief reference in the TNG story arc featuring Mr. Spock. Retconning Khan knowing Chekhov is one thing, retconning the major character's death is entirely different.

As to the techy stuff, and bear in mind I don't do ANY editing myself - that means that, like the average movie-goer, I'm not looking for errors. Watching it on my flat panel monitor with a semi-OK speaker system, I noticed no audio errors. There were a couple of video oddities noticeable to the inexperienced eye, which I mentioned above and found wholly excusable.

In the end, the only thing I really lament about this edit is that it isn't canon. :-(
 

Hymie

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I'm not saying it was a bad edit, I just wanted to say what I had to say. I understand its an old edit and that technical "flaws" (i.e. imperfections, irregularities) are to be expected, I just felt the need to point them out. In the end, it enabled discussion to occur and in a way I achieved what I wanted to.
 

Gaith

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Hymie said:
I don't know of any better way to edit the Soran fight (and don't think I said I could) I was just citing the fact that there was a flaw.
You did say, and I quote, "perhaps I'll try my own for my personal collection," and your tone struck me as unduly harsh, especially since the Kirk arm is forewarned in CBB's description.

A generous smattering of "in my opinions" and conciliatory smiley faces can go a long way in terms of keeping discussions both amicable and encouraging to future efforts. What with the time pressures, general hassles and legal morasses of sharing edits, there's not much point to a forum like this if we can't maintain an upbeat, supportive atmosphere. :wink: :)
 

Hymie

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So me saying I want to do an edit for myself is considered harsh? :-o


Saying I was going to try for myself in no way says I'm trying to beat down on the editor. I think people are taking a small little review way out of proportion for no reason. I thought this forum was all about creativity and enabling discussion of ideas to make films better. Yet I reiterate something, which you yourself admit was already noted, and you jump down my back? I simply was reviewing a project which stimulated my interest in trying my own. Isn't that what this whole place is about :?:



F.Y.I.

The comments I made were calculated in order to try to trigger discussion so that this thread would be kept near the top of the forum so perhaps newer members would see it and be interested in the project. I'm glad it worked, I just didn't expect people to jump down my throat for pointing something out that was already stated.
 

elbarto1

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Hymie said:
So me saying I want to do an edit for myself is considered harsh? :-o

Not at all. Its how you say it that comes off a bit harsh. It probably wasnt intended, but it doesnt change the fact that it came off that way :wat:

Saying I was going to try for myself in no way says I'm trying to beat down on the editor. I think people are taking a small little review way out of proportion for no reason.

Its looks like a simple misunderstanding

I thought this forum was all about creativity and enabling discussion of ideas to make films better. Yet I reiterate something, which you yourself admit was already noted, and you jump down my back?

No one is jumping down your back, they are simply countering your points with their own

I simply was reviewing a project which stimulated my interest in trying my own. Isn't that what this whole place is about :?:

It most certainly is :)

F.Y.I.

The comments I made were calculated in order to try to trigger discussion so that this thread would be kept near the top of the forum so perhaps newer members would see it and be interested in the project. I'm glad it worked, I just didn't expect people to jump down my throat for pointing something out that was already stated.

Disagreements, yes. Throat jumping, no.

I feel the miscommunication lies in your choice of verbage coupled with no emoticons to help the reader decipher your intended tone, and thus (as cited below) reads like you are a bit harsh.

Hymie said:
- The main titles are hard to read completely.

- The audio cuts were heavily noticeable to me .

- The deletion that Kirk died on the Enterprise-B was not handled well. A terrible slow-mo of Riker (for what reason?) should not have been there.

- The final confrontation with Soran wasn't handled well, it drags down the pace and ruins the pacing. The shot of Kirk punching him also doesn't work

I appreciate the idea, I just felt it could have been handled a bit better.

I hope you see my point and dont take these comments as an insult or declaration of war :razz: :)
 

Hymie

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I didn't take it as a declaration of war, rather just questioning why I was being questioned for being intrigued to try my own edit, which is what this place is all about.


I only question how a smilie is going to add value to my initial statement. I still have no clue how you can interpret me wanting to attempt an edit as a knock on the editor, nor can I imagine what emoticon I would use to validate a statement with no emotion behind it.
 

boon23

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can we stop making this all more complicated all the time and get back to just discussing this fanedit? I think Hymie made his point, I made mine, now let's move on.
 

Tubes

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I like Kirkless Generations as a fanedit, but it also shows the glaring flaws that is inherent to Generations. Mostly that it isn't entirely a TNG movie. With the Kirk stuff in, it feels like a half TNG/TOS movie. Without, it feels like half a movie, period.
 

Hymie

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boon23 said:
can we stop making this all more complicated all the time and get back to just discussing this fanedit? I think Hymie made his point, I made mine, now let's move on.

Sounds good.

I think Tubes is right that this really does feel like half a movie. Too bad they weren't willing to give TNG the entire movie, as it seems like they were at least on the right idea. Kirkless Generations is a great alternative for those who were less than thrilled with Kirk's inclusion in the film.
 

white43

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Well, I saw this as a challenge. Remove Kirk, can it be achieved whilst retaining a decent and coherent storyline?

The answer is yes, and I enjoyed it. Anyone not having seen the original would easily buy this and that's something we have to consider. We've all seen the originals of films and then we watch the fanedit. Sometimes it doesn't work, most times it does and I think this film does - it's like an extended TNG episode.

I'd prefer to watch this one, as I didn't like the handling of Kirk's death.
 

L8wrtr

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Star Trek - Kirkless Generations by CBB

Reviewed by L8wrtr

A fantastic edit from a highly flawed source.

Owning the theatrical version of Generations is more an act of loyalty than any indication of enjoyment, so I had high hopes for this edit. I was not disappoitned.

Video editing
Overall this fan-edit is fairly seemless. There are one or two transitions that felt abrupt, and the slow-motion turn was a bit jarring, but you have to work with what you get in fan-editing so I didn't have a complaint about this. The narrative that this edit creates is great, particularly when you consider the mess that is the original. The focus on Picard's struggle is far more believable and his struggle enjoys the proper focus in the film.

My only complaint regarding this edit is the sequence of events once Picard returns to the planet from the Nexus. The original screenplay already suffers from the McFly Time-Travel Blunder, where our hero, able to select any point in time/space chooses to barely give himself enough time. This flaw is exaggerated by this new sequence because Picard chooses to return outside the shield. If not for his serendipitously finding the hole in the shield, Picard would have been unable to stop Soran the second time either.

This sequence would have flowed a lot better (IMO) if Picard's discussion/attempted persuasion with Soran happened all before the rocket fires, and then when Picard returns from the Nexus, it instantly is right where the action starts on the cat-walk. From that point, the fight sequence is perfect and believable. It is a skillful integration of the original footage into a 2-man fight without Kirk. (Of course, a truly bold solution to the McFly conundrum would be to simply cut out the Nexus all-together, Picard slips into the shield, saves the day, no time travel needed, and the Nexus remains a mystery to us. Unfortunately that would cut out how Picard comes to terms with his grief, which is what makes the scene worth keeping). This however is my only criticism. 9 out of 10

Video Quality
I found no flaws in the video quality, no reason to give it anything other than 10 out of 10

Audio Quality
Overall, quite good, but a few harsh transitions stood out and ruined the seemless flow. I have not watched this movie in years and do not have it memorized, so that I recognized the transitions keeps it from being perfect. 9 out of 10

Overall Entertainment
This edit rescues a very disappointing movie that I watch rarely, and has turned it into a movie that I will actively watch again and will share with friends. 9 out of 10.
 

Ripplin

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I rated and reviewed this one not long ago too. Gave it a 9. :)

P.S. What does CBB stand for, anyway?
 
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