[Sony Vegas] Converting project with single channel audio to multi channel audio

[FoolsFollowing]

Before I start I would like to acknowledge that yes this is a daft situation to have put myself in but I did the best I could under my circumstances in order to motivate myself towards completing the project. If this means I’ve given myself a crapload of unnecessary extra work so be it, it's all part of the learning process and I was always prepared for this issue to arise. However if there is some way to avoid all that extra work I will be thrilled.

I have been working on a project using Sony Vegas 13 for a few months. For the sake of simplicity, disc space and generally given my still-amateur status as an editor I have been working from a fairly low quality rip of the source files which did not separate the audio from the video nor split the audio tracks (The edit I was working on prior, Batman Winter Sonata was a silent film so audio editing is completely new to me. I worked this way because it was more important for me to be able to editing the video into a single coherent piece and trying to do that while also juggling six audio channels was something I wanted to avoid at the time). The project is now nearing completion and I need to polish the audio editing, so I am finally upgrading the project using a full quality copy of the source with separate split audio. In terms of the video I'm hoping this wont cause any problems at all, I'm simply swapping a low quality source with a high quality source, however I assume the audio is going to be very problematic. I need to change the project's audio from a single channel to 6 channels, using a completely new source. Currently the single audio track has been cut and rearranged hundreds of times and is generally very messy.

So, does anybody have any experience upgrading a project with very edited single-channel audio and video from a non-demuxed file into multi-audio channels and have any advice for me? Has anybody else found themselves in this situation and worked a way out?

Sorry if my rambling is unclear, feel free to ask questions I will try to elucidate as much as possible.

Thanks,
FF

 

[Avid4D]

I think you're going to find this very difficult. I say difficult, because in my experience alone I would declare it impossible but others might be able to offer a suggestion or solution.

I can succesfully turn 2 channel stereo into 3 channels (left, right and centre) and can crudely up-scale this into 5.1, but a single mono channel offers nothing in the way of audio field of depth to create surround sound from. The only thing I can suggest is to replicate the mono track on all channels and then manually adjust volume and panning levels for every individual scene. Hard work! I purchased a Vocal Eraser filter for Sony Vegas which works great with stereo audio, but I don't think it would work well on a mono track and you would really need it to remove vocals from all but the centre channel.

I don't envy you! :-o

 

[TM2YC]

a single mono channel offers nothing in the way of audio field of depth to create surround sound from

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that's what he is asking.

He wants to know how-to/if you can swap a stereo source for a movie, with a 5.1 source of the same movie, using Son-Vegas's replacement option, in the same way as you can replace an SD video with an HD one after your timeline is completed and have all his audio edits replicated.

I've no idea how to do any of these things though but I supect it would be impossible. Sorry.

My advice would be to just experiment and see what happens. Switch your project to settings to 5.1 and then drop in your new source using the replacement tool. Who knows, Vegas might sort it all out? Or it might delete all but two channels.

Having said that are you using seperate wavs for each channel? If so I really can't see how an automatic replacement is possible (Since you are essentially using multiple sources, not one). So my method in similar circumstances would be to sync up all your seperate channels to an unedited version of the video (In the same timeline as your current project). Then lock the audio to the video and recut the new audio and video to match the timing of the existing edits (If that makes sense). Once those edits are all in place, delete the old source, unlink the audio and begin your crossfading work. It will take time, but not as much as you perhaps fear.

 

[Avid4D]

Oh right... okay I lost that in translation! I kept reading single track source. In that case it's definitely conceivable, but I still don't envy you :-o

 

[RollWave]

I don't think it will fix your problems, but in the prepping your sources stage, instead of converting audio to 6 separate wav files, you can convert to a single w64 file which still separates the audio into the same 6 tracks (which will be grouped into 4 tracks on the timeline since it combines the front and rear stereo onto a single lane).

 

[FoolsFollowing]

Thanks for the replies. Yes TM2YC seems to have comprehended my babble correctly!

Having said that are you using seperate wavs for each channel? If so I really can't see how an automatic replacement is possible (Since you are essentially using multiple sources, not one). So my method in similar circumstances would be to sync up all your seperate channels to an unedited version of the video (In the same timeline as your current project). Then lock the audio to the video and recut the new audio and video to match the timing of the existing edits (If that makes sense). Once those edits are all in place, delete the old source, unlink the audio and begin your crossfading work. It will take time, but not as much as you perhaps fear.

I think this is what I was hoping to do but I don't really understand the process. I wont actually begin the audio editing until next week so this is preliminary reconnaissance. Am I right in thinking it would go something like this:

Step 1) add the 6 audio tracks
Step 2) sync them into a single entity
Step 3) sync them with an unedited copy of the video source file

So now I simply need to match the new, unedited video track (with its 6 synced audio tracks) with the older, edited video track. But is there any automatic way to do this? Or will I have to go through my whole project with a new timeline and try to match the above video with the below video manually?

Is there any way of making my HD copy of the source file also include the multiple audio tracks, so that simply replacing the sources would replicate the audio editing too? (Demuxing then remuxing again or something)

 

[Brumous]

I would try RollWave's idea first. Extract or make a single high quality audio file that has the 6 tracks inside it. Then in Vegas swap the source of the audio track from the low quality muxed file to the high quality combined 5.1 file.

But first save all your work and make copies of your project source files so it's easy to revert back in case that idea doesn't work.

 

[TM2YC]

will I have to go through my whole project with a new timeline and try to match the above video with the below video manually?

Not a new timeline. Just have this new unedited copy on a seperate track(s). Then drag it around and cut it up until it matches the edited track. Hope this makes sense.

 

[FoolsFollowing]

Ok, looks like I managed to sort it out. I will post my steps here in case anybody else finds themselves in a similar situation.


Task: Updating a single unmuxed .mp4 video/audio project into HD, including dividing the single .mp4 audio track into 6 seperate .wav tracks, but not losing any of the editing I had done and keeping the video and audio in sync!

Background: I had available my unmuxed .mp4 file which contained both the original video and audio, as well as an HD .avi of the same source material and the 6 .wav audio files, all of which I attained using ThrowgnCpr's Blu Ray ripping guide on this site.


The steps:
1) Take the original project, containing the edited mp4 audio and video, and Replace Media the .mp4 file with the HD .avi file. This converts the edited video into HD but loses all the audio. Save as a new project ("Avi").
2) Go back and re-use original project again, but this time Replace Media the .mp4 file with first .wav file. This will convert all the audio editing to the first channel, but lose the video. Save as a new project ("C").
3) Select all media files in the project, then ungroup. From the Project Media section of Vegas, delete every file except the new .wav.
4) Re-open the "avi" project in a separate Sony Vegas (the two must be open at the same time), copy all remaining files from the .wav project and paste them onto a new track(s) in the avi project, making sure to paste from the exact point that the audio begins. Label this track(s) after the .wav channel you have just pasted.
5) Repeat Step 4 five more times with every .wav file, always pasting into the same project and labelling the new track appropriately (C, FL, RF, etc).
6) Delete any remaining empty 'audio' files from the .mp4 (they will be blank and white as they no loner refer to an existing source) - don't forget to ungroup them all first.


End result: A single project containing the exact same video and audio editing I began with, except the video is now HD and the audio is separated into 6 different .wav audio channels. The audio will need to be cleaned up a bit, but this is far easier than having to remake the entire project using the original clips as a template.

 

[TM2YC]

^ Nice!

 

[RollWave]

I'm glad it worked, that's probably something that somebody else will find useful in the future.

but I still suspect that if you used a single w64 instead of 6 separate wav's, you could have skipped "step 5) repeat this procedure 5 more times".

 

[FoolsFollowing]

but I still suspect that if you used a single w64 instead of 6 separate wav's, you could have skipped "step 5) repeat this procedure 5 more times".

My concern was that reducing the number of channels from 6 to 4 would limit my audio editing options. Still, I have two more movies to upgrade in the same project so I will try with a w64 for the next audio. What's the best software to use? 'Eac3to More GUI', which I used to create the 6 wav files, is supposed to have w64 as an output option but I cannot find it nor any w64 guides. =/

 

[RollWave]

My concern was that reducing the number of channels from 6 to 4 would limit my audio editing options. Still, I have two more movies to upgrade in the same project so I will try with a w64 for the next audio. What's the best software to use? 'Eac3to More GUI', which I used to create the 6 wav files, is supposed to have w64 as an output option but I cannot find it nor any w64 guides. =/

2 of the channels are stereo, so there's still 6 distinct audio tracks that all play to their own speaker. You don't lose anything, and it generally makes it easier to edit since you can make changes to the rear surround speakers at once as a pair rather than having to edit them individually to matching fades at every transition.

It will look like that - 2 red tracks are the front left and right, but on the same audio track on the timeline. At the bottom, the 2 green tracks are rear left and right surround, again on the same audio track, but still representing their separate audio to each speaker.

 

[FoolsFollowing]

That does look much simpler, what program do you use to create wav64 files? Eac3to is supposed to do it, but .w64 is not one of the output options.

 

[RollWave]

That is described in Gemini's blu-ray prep guide.
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showt...ish-HD-Conversion-Editing-amp-Authoring-Guide

The software is either or both of megui.exe and HdBrStreamExtractor.exe, that has w64 as an output option, I forget which, probably stream extractor.

 

[Captain Khajiit]

Eac3to is supposed to do it, but .w64 is not one of the output options.

eac3to input.whatever output.w64

 

[FoolsFollowing]

Thanks CK, that worked great. You're right Rollwave, the process is much simpler this way. By duplicating the track 4 times then simply altering the channel I managed to redo the entire above process in minutes.