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Reviewing guidelines?

seciors

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I've just begun reviewing fan edits, and am am having a hard time since like almost everything I do, I want to take it seriously and do a good job with it.

My problem is twofold; first, I would really like some general guidelines that map numbers (or ranges of numbers) to some sort of meaningful short explanation or example of why/when to choose that rating. For example, when should any of the technical categories (which I assume should be as objective as possible) be rated a 10, as opposed to an 8 or a 6.
Same goes for narrative, which while more subjective, nonetheless does have an objective quality to it since it implies to me that we are evaluating whether the story makes sense. Again, some guidelines would be very helpful. finally, for enjoyment, I know this is purely subjective, but again, I would like some sort of guide about what are generally accepted ways of using this rating.

which leads me to my second problem; what if I watch an edit that I end up not enjoying? What should I do? I really would feel bad giving a low rating to any edit that someone has poured hours and hours of time into. I also don't want to make anyone feel bad, or set myself up for future retribution when people review my own edits. So it kind makes me wary of leaving a review at all.

which brings me back to having some guidelines or a FAQ of sorts that can help reviewers try to use a common approach when rating the various categories. I happen to be someone who probably is a harsher critic than most, since that's how I review real movies as well. It's hard for me to give out 9s and 10s for narrative/entertainment unless I truly feel like I watched something that was outstanding in some way. (I have less problem giving out these numbers for the technical parts).

so I guess I just need some real advice here on how to deal with edits I take the time to watch, but in the end, if I was going to be truthful, would not be rating my enjoyment very high. Can some people who have more experience in this arena chime in with how they approach these situations? Do people end up no posting a review sometimes in order to not hurt feelings and/or come off as being unfair or too harsh to the editor?
 
Hm that's a tough question.

For technical points I usually go from to source. So if I am watching a DVD version I judge it by DVD image standards and do not take points away if it isn't HD. Same goes for audio. The quality should be judged by the source the editor used, not the peak standard - but using HD can't hurt the rating :D

narrative I usually judge the edit if it works on itself. This does not take into account scenes I am missing because I have seen the original (that would go under enjoyment). If there are plotholes that have resulted in the re-editing or if some things just don't work this goes into narrative

enjoyment is the thing as you said where it gets super subjective.
There are some people who let the enjoyment rating depend on how much they enjoyed the original and judge the edit as if someone would serve them this movie.
to make this convoluted sentence more clear here is an example:

if someone was really disappointed with terminator 3 and would give the movie 2/10 stars
then someone comes around and improves some things, which make it flow better.
the person then watches the edit and it is a less painful experience - but had this been the version of terminator 3 he had seen in cinemas he would have still been super disappointed because of the wasted potential. so he can give the edit 4/10 for enjoyment, despite it being an improvement.

sometimes this can really work and for some edits I rated prometheus giftbearer 8/10. it is a superb edit and really improves the original but I still won't be able to fully enjoy this. as long as you state reasons for giving a lower score (like most do when they write that it is an improvement but the fault still lies with the movie, not the editor) most editors will probably respect it.

plus a subjective rating can be pushed if everything else is perfect (again I gave giftbearer 8 for enjoyment but the overall rating is still 8.8 because all the other aspects are great)

then on the other side there can be a moment when you are just blown away by how much an editor made out of a trainwreck and then the enjoyment can be much higher than the original version because you had more fun watchign the new version unfold even though the quality of the story was still subpar...

long story short for a frustrating clichéd answer: i doubt that enjoyment can really be argued. best to be content with your rating and being able to articulate why you came to this conclusion then most people will understadn

as long as you don't give 1 star and say "i didn't like it." you should be good to go
 
I think it's overkill to have an FAQ or guidelines about rating since it's so subjective. One man's definition of 8 may be another man's 6. The only thing I'd stress is be honest and explain your rating, especially if it's lower. How else will an editor improve if they're not given an honest rating and critique?
 
Q2 said:
How else will an editor improve unless they're given an honest rating and critique?

Fixed?
or

Q2 said:
How else will an editor improve if they're given a dishonest rating and critique?

Fixed?
 
for me, IMO, i don't think Enjoyment should be included in the overall score. it falsely skews the Overall rating one way or the other.
enjoyment is inherent in the original film. if i don't care for a movie in the first place, i'm still likely not going to care for it after viewing the edit. how is it fair to the editor to give it a low Enjoyment score just because i didn't like the movie in the first place?
on the other side too, if i love a movie, i might be more willing to look past some little technical issues. how is that then fair to everyone else who is looking for "accurate" information for their future edit viewing?
the whole point to this site is to put out good quality film edits that are near on par with the studio release in technical quality. otherwise we would be flooded with everyone's windows movie maker music video mashup.
there is a review board here and if the film doesn't meet certain technical aspects, it doesn't even get listed.
that is an amazing thing that i completely agree with. it keeps the standards high.
so in the end, each rating really should only be based on video/audio quality (based on source), video editing (jump cuts, transitions), audio editing (fades, blends) and narrative (avoidance of plot holes, cohesive story, yadda.).
then the level of Enjoyment can be addressed in the body of the review.
"the technical aspects were spot on (9/10), but i didn't like Prometheus to begin with, i still don't like it."
"the Matrix had some weird transitions here and there (7/10), but it didn't hurt how much i enjoyed the ride."
"Transformers was a disappointment, this version makes it more watchable. didn't notice a single change made (8/10)."
"while technically spot on (10/10), how could this editor take Star Wars which i love so much and grindhouse it!"
(i was trying to think of specific examples there with tongue-in-cheek references to actual edits.)
 
well i think enjoyment is a very very important aspect in the rating that gets to whether the edit is working for me or not.

sure a lot of times it will have to do with my liking/disliking the original, that can't be switched off
i made an easy fanedit about paranormal activity which on a narrative and technical level had little to no problems - still it was just not an enjoyable ride.
sure this could have been reflected in the narrative segment but I like to distinguish the "cold narrative" if the fanedit works on a plothole level and an emotional level how much i am immersed
 
I've just begun reviewing fan edits, and am am having a hard time since like almost everything I do, I want to take it seriously and do a good job with it.

my advice would be to look at some of the most popular edits but start with the lowest scores first, usually these are more realistic reviews instead of the usual 10/10 reviews that come with only a few lines.

for me personally i don't care about sound or visual appearance i'm not bothered whether it's an avi or blu-ray source,fanedits are disposable and i always delete after viewing. the enjoyment and narrative aspects though are the most important part for me. this is when opinion can become subjective depending what kind of fanedit you enjoy

my reviews follow a pattern of a brief intro, a paragraph or two on the things i enjoyed then the same with things that i perhaps didn't enjoy. then end with a final conclusion. i've only ever given one fanedit a 10/10 for me personally i would rather not see to many perfect scores given out, but that's just me.

which leads me to my second problem; what if I watch an edit that I end up not enjoying? What should I do? I really would feel bad giving a low rating to any edit that someone has poured hours and hours of time into. I also don't want to make anyone feel bad, or set myself up for future retribution when people review my own edits. So it kind makes me wary of leaving a review at all.

my edits don't receive a lot of reviews so i'd take any kind of review :) personally i wouldn't score anyone under 5 as you mention just for the whole process in making a fanedit deserves some recognition. plus there's a standard in which a fanedit most aider to so they won't be too many unwatchable fanedits from a technical point of view. also don't forget to watch a fanedit you most own the original film so you most of enjoyed the original film if your watching a fanedit version of it?

maybe they are a few that give someone a 10/10 because they gave them a 10/10 but for the most part i feel people are generally honest. my system is this 5-6 so so, 7-8 good, 9 very good 10 excellent. go into every fanedit knowing there are going to be errors. for me if a fanedit has maybe 4 or 5 errors then i can live with it any more and i'll get critical with my score

finally take in consideration what you'd score the original film. for example the first transformer movie i'd give that film a 7/10 now if i watched a fanedit version of it i'd ask myself has he improved the edit enough to give it a 8/10. has it made the film worse so i'm gonna have to score it 6/10. or is it a good alternative to the original but doesn't change my original 7/10 score. now i wouldn't give it a 10/10 because the film it self doesn't warrant that score

hope this helps
 
At the end of the day, art is for enjoyment. Hard to remove that from any proper review. In the written part of the review, [MENTION=9578]Neglify[/MENTION] and I also add what our enjoyment rating for the original is. This then provides the reader with very valuable objective information about the edit to see how much the enjoyment rating has changed.

Regarding hurting the creator's feelings, I suppose there is a school-esque type of learning environment in this community where we don't want to hurt feelings or relationships. That's nice, but in the words of an old writing professor of mine, if you can't handle criticism well, either learn how to or don't submit your work. Nobody is forcing you to publicly share. No admin is getting paid for their time to process your submission. No academy member is getting paid for their time to preview your submission. Learning to give and receive criticism openly and constructively is probably the most useful life skill to come from this hobby of ours.
 
Thanks everyone for all the feedback on this issue; there is a lot of good information shared!

I still sort of disagree that some minimal guidelines would be helpful as a way to assist in normalizing people's ratings (seeing reviews that use the same exact number across all categories and only include a very small amount of text just don't seem fair when other reviewers take the time to provide descriptions for each category).

But I guess, life isn't fair either! ;-)

Again, thanks for all the feedback on this. I will really think this over as I work on my reviews.
 
A lot of hard work goes into these creations, and I would be very reluctant to grade harshly.
That said, I have yet to view a truly awful edit, and I feel a lot of credit goes to the vetting process.
Some films are terrible to being with, and even a labor of love overhaul still results in shoddy goods.
I would never give that a 10, but I likely would score an 8 for improvement.
I do not do editing, so am less persnickety about technical aspects unless I notice something glaring.
If I notice something, chances are I will make a comment, but will not whack a score to 5 or 6.
Experienced editors have a sharp eye and ear for errors, and are best for constructive remarks or advice.
I like the system as it encourages participation, and the more who take part, the more who might take the plunge and tackle Predators or Species or Flash Meets Flesh Gordon or Lifeforce.
 
Forgive me for posting again, and also for the length of this post, but this is an important topic to me, and there has been some great sharing going on.

As far as I can gather, our system for reviewing edits is meant to be flexible, and allow each reviewer to decide how to rate an edit based on any system he or she feels is best. I am completely fine with this, and all the different posts in this thread provide fine examples of how people can approach reviewing edits.

For the time being, the following is how I would like to approach my reviews. I am drawing on all the feedback already provided, plus my own personal feelings on the topic. I want to emphasize that these will be my own personal guidelines, and I am not in any way asking others to agree or follow the same approach. However, if something I say here is problematic to those in charge, please point it out and I will gladly change it! (this is mostly why I am posting it.)

Once I have about 10 or so reviews completed, I will revisit this, and eventually I hope to migrate it to my profile (or some other location) so I can provide a reference to it inside all my reviews (again, to allow the editor access to my own personal system of reviewing).


SECIORS APPROACH TO REVIEWING FAN EDITS (DRAFT)

GENERAL PRINCIPLES


  • We are a community of peers with common goals; we try to help each other improve our skills through respectful, constructive feedback.
  • Reviews should be honest, but not harsh; evaluation should take into account that this is a hobby and not a profession for both the editor and reviewer.
  • Reviews should take into account the editor's stated intention and goals.
  • For all categories, a textual description will be provided to explain and support the rating. For lower ratings, the description will be more detailed.
  • For edits that I have created a version of myself, I will enforce an "embargo" period to allow myself to gain enough distance and perspective so as not to unintentionally impose my own personal choices on someone else's vision/work. The length of time is a judgement call. I should never refer to my own edit in these reviews, nor use my own approach as any sort of evaluation criteria. It is especially important in these reviews to use the editor's own stated intention and goals to establish the framework of approaching these reviews.
  • While I will strive not to provide spoilers, in some special cases, I might feel compelled to discuss an editor's narrative choice that might considered a spoiler. In these cases, I plan on stating in ALL CAPS as the first line of my edit that this review contains spoilers, and those who have not yet seen the edit may not want to read the text due to that fact. I will also surround the specific place in the text that contains a spoiler with a similar warning, so the reader can attempt to jump over the text. However, if spoilers should never be included in reviews, please let me know and I will excise this from my approach!

A/V QUALITY

  • Ratings should be based on the quality of the original source material used by the editor.
  • If the editor had a specific intention or goal with regards to A/V quality (such as adding film grain or recoloring) this can be considered when rating this category. Depending on the situation though, it may be more appropriate to reserve this type of evaluation for the technical categories.
  • The choice to use stereo instead of Surround sound can be noted, but will not cause a drop in rating.
  • The choice to use SD instead of HD can be noted, but will not cause a drop in rating.
  • Examples of issues that could affect the rating include: interlacing issues, aspect ratio problems, poorly executed upscaling of SD material within an HD edit, sound levels that are incorrectly balanced throughout the entire edit, or cropping that severely degrades the original picture quality.

RATING KEY

10 - A/V quality matches the source material
9 - One or two minor issues exist.
8 - More than two minor issues exist, or a major issue exists.
7 or lower - More than one major issue exists. I seriously don't expect to ever have to use this rating, but if I do, such ratings will be carefully and fully explained within the text of the review.

VISUAL AND AUDIO EDITING

  • These are purely technical categories, and thus should focus on pure technical issues. By technical, I mean perceived mistakes in the actual editing process. This does not cover artistic choices, though poorly executed editing intended to be artistic can be covered here.
  • If the editor had a specific intention or goal with regards to the technical approach (such as intentional use of jump cuts, freeze frames, vignettes, or silence), this can be considered when rating this category.
  • I have a very keen eye for editing issues, but will be guided by the aforementioned general principles when coming up with ratings for these categories.
  • Examples of issues that could affect the rating include: flash frames, audio drop-outs, abrupt video or audio transitions, or anything else that is purely technical in nature.

RATING KEY

10 - No technical issues detected, or at most one or two very minor issues detected that do not detract from overall enjoyment.
9 - A few minor issues detected that have a slight impact on overall enjoyment.
8 - Enough minor issues or a major issue that does have an impact on overall enjoyment. Again, these must be strictly technical in nature.
7 or lower - More than one major issue exists the have a larger impact on overall enjoyment. I don't expect to need to use this that often. However, such ratings will be carefully and fully explained within the text of the review.

NARRATIVE

  • I pay very close attention to the narrative aspects of all film and TV shows I watch, and I will do the same for fan edits.
  • I expect a fan editor's ultimate goal is to tell a cohesive story that should make sense. Problems that exist in the original story should be addressed, either by editing them out or by using them for a new purpose.
  • When evaluating the narrative of a fan edit, the editor's stated intent and goals will be my guideline for evaluation.
  • My enjoyment of narrative choices will not be factored into this category; rather, this should be an objective evaluation of the quality of the narrative based on its own merits. Thus, I might provide a very high narrative rating, but nonetheless still not enjoy the story (no matter how well it is constructed), which would result in a lower enjoyment rating.
  • Examples of narrative issues include: plot holes, discontinuities, incomplete plot lines, story elements that are not well integrated, lack of an established narrative framework, or inconsistencies with an established narrative framework.
  • In all cases, I will provide detailed explanations regarding the narrative issues that I detected.

RATING KEY
10 - Outstanding - very few works will receive this rating, as it requires that essentially no narrative problems exist. The editor has perfectly achieved his or her previously stated narrative intention and goals.
9 - Excellent - only minor narrative issues detected.
8 - Very Good - multiple minor issues, or perhaps one major issue detected.
7 - Good - more than one major issue detected.
6 - Problematic - This is my lowest planned rating for narrative. It means I had many issues with the narrative.

ENJOYMENT

  • I feel like this is the "real" review category. Thus, I would generally treat the work the same way as I would any regular movie.
  • All of the previous categories can factor into my enjoyment rating.
  • For comparison, I will provide my rating for the original work.
  • I will also provide a detailed explanation as to what I liked and didn't like.

RATING KEY
10 - Outstanding - This is going to be a very rare rating for me.
9 - Excellent
8 - Very Good - This is generally the level where I would recommend an edit, meaning I enjoyed it enough that I'd be willing to watch it again and recommend it to others.
7 - Good - This is not intended to be a bad rating; it means I enjoyed and/or appreciated many aspects of the edit.
6 - I had problems - For whatever reason, I did not enjoy the edit, and of course I would provide details as to why, in the most respectful manner possible. I don't plan on going below a 6 in this category.

OVERALL RATING

  • While overall rating is automatically calculated, before I submit the review, I will take a step back and compare the overall rating against what my feeling is for the edit as a whole.
  • I would never change my rating of the three technical categories in order to change the overall rating, as the technical ratings should be purely objective and based on factual information.
  • In some cases, I might slightly revise my narrative and/or enjoyment rating based on circumstances described below.
  • For narrative, I would only make small changes if I feel I might have been too critical (which is my tendency).
  • For enjoyment, I would only make small changes if I felt there was too big discrepancy between the overall rating and my enjoyment rating. I think this most likely will not happen but I feel that there are situations that might warrant such adjustment. A prime example would be to factor in a fan editor's originality or boldness. To me, these are some of the factors that make fan editing a great hobby -- to take risks and try to be original -- and thus, to be able to recognize these things do contribute to my enjoyment, if only from a cerebral point of view. Plus I feel they deserve encouragement. So this is why I might slightly modify the enjoyment rating, and if I do so, I would include mention in the textual description that I included this as part of my evaluation of the edit.
  • I hope this is an acceptable approach to the powers that be, but if not, please let me know and I will not do it.

RATING KEY
9+ - Excellent/Outstanding
8-9 - Very Good / Excellent
7-8 - Good / Very Good
6-7 - Fair / Good

RECOMMENDATION

  • Generally speaking, if my enjoyment rating was an 8, I will probably recommend the edit. This is not a rule, just a guideline.
  • I might provide caveats within the text if I feel I can only recommend the edit to a specific audience, or only if the viewer is willing to overlook certain aspects of the edit.
  • I do not plan on ever checking off the "No" box. My reviews are meant to be as positive as possible, while of course being honest. My review text might spark someone's interest in the edit based on certain things I said within my review, even if I personally couldn't provide an "official" recommendation. The "No" rating also creates negative connotations that I prefer not to create; as long as I've been honest in my review, I see no need to say I don't recommend an edit.


Well, there you have it. I am again very sorry for the length of this post.

If this post is in any way not appropriate, it was not my intention at all, and would be an honest mistake for which I aplogize. But I wanted to share what I have learned from everyone else that has already posted, as well as state what I think my own approach will be, and get early warning if I am straying down the wrong path.

Thanks again to everyone for your excellent feedback and advice!
 
very rigorous, seciors. now get cracking. more than 700 fanedits await your detailed assessment. ;-)
 
ahh, but do they really want to be subjected to it? ;-)
 
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