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Is our collective palate too refined?

Fettclone1 said:
I must say, though, regarding "original stories"? There's no such animal.

Joseph Campbell, folks.
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Maybe I should have said original script, or scenario, instead of story then.
The originality of a movie lies in the way you tell and show the story.
You can have a very original movie telling a very basic story.
Pulp Fiction for example is a mix of several almost "whatever" stories but the result was a very original movie.
 
I keep reading this as "Is our collection plate too refined?"
 
This all operates under the assumption that being critical is taking away from the experience rather than adding to it.

Sure sometimes being overly critical can take away from a more macro child-like kind of enjoyment. More often, though, analyzing a movie adds to the experience for me. I have fun thinking about it afterward over a drink and deconstructing it a bit. Its why I fanedit in the first place, because its fun to think about this shit!

The same argument is made all the time about scientists. Does understanding how something works take away from your ability to appreciate it? I have found it to be quite the opposite in nearly all things. Knowledge almost always deepens my appreciation. I am constantly fascinated and in awe of things that others are blind to.

My less critical movie-going friends rarely enjoy the movie experience as much as me, even when I dislike the movie I saw. To put it in sexual terms, they just want to get laid whereas I am looking for a deeper relationship.
 
DominicCobb said:
First of all, the best span of movies was from 1972-1982.
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DominicCobb said:
The thing is, I feel it's such an easy thing to say that film is not as original or as good as it was before (especially considering, yes, the dearth of unoriginal product), but I honestly think there are great films out there, and not just a few, but a lot. And hell, a lot of that unoriginal stuff is great too.
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What I'm saying is that the quality of movies has been declining for the past decade or so. You seem to be saying it's been declining for the last 30+ years, if the best era was 72-82. I won't deny that there are great movies out there, but I think where we disagree is quantity. I think they are few and far between and the ones that are great are, for the most part, just great by comparison to the rest of the current movies. I think there have been very few films in the last 10 years - Moon, Synecdoche NY and Inception come to mind - that can match the quality that came out from 94-04.
 
Apparently you haven't seen Jack and Jill.
 
Adabisi said:
What I'm saying is that the quality of movies has been declining for the past decade or so. You seem to be saying it's been declining for the last 30+ years, if the best era was 72-82. I won't deny that there are great movies out there, but I think where we disagree is quantity. I think they are few and far between and the ones that are great are, for the most part, just great by comparison to the rest of the current movies. I think there have been very few films in the last 10 years - Moon, Synecdoche NY and Inception come to mind - that can match the quality that came out from 94-04.
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I wouldn't say it's been declining. I just think that was the best period for film ever.

As for quantity, maybe you're right. But I find there's enough good stuff out there to keep me happy.
 
geminigod said:
This all operates under the assumption that being critical is taking away from the experience rather than adding to it.

Sure sometimes being overly critical can take away from a more macro child-like kind of enjoyment. More often, though, analyzing a movie adds to the experience for me. I have fun thinking about it afterward over a drink and deconstructing it a bit. Its why I fanedit in the first place, because its fun to think about this shit!

The same argument is made all the time about scientists. Does understanding how something works take away from your ability to appreciate it? I have found it to be quite the opposite in nearly all things. Knowledge almost always deepens my appreciation. I am constantly fascinated and in awe of things that others are blind to.

My less critical movie-going friends rarely enjoy the movie experience as much as me, even when I dislike the movie I saw. To put it in sexual terms, they just want to get laid whereas I am looking for a deeper relationship.
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I think this is the key, for me at least.

Around 10 years ago (not coincidentally, the point at which I went to college, had comparatively more control over my free time along with much greater access to films via film clubs & college video library) I started getting more interested in film and trying to understand what made me like some films and not others.

The ease of communication on the internet does tend to promote a certain "Decide instantaneously: either it rules or it sucks, there is no middle ground!" attitude when discussing things, and I find that doesn't help when trying to dissect a film. It's very rare that I'll see either a film that I consider to be almost flawless or entirely irredeemable - and the key is to retain a mental balance when evaluating what works and doesn't. Rather than let myself get worked up about a film's flaws (Eg the general trend of American films from 2012 to be between 30 and 60 minutes too long) I try to identify what things work well in the film and whether they would've been compromised by changes such as a shorter running time.

I don't think it's fair to say that an understanding of craft and a critical eye destroy your ability to enjoy an artform - it merely changes how you approach it. Some people want to simply watch entertaining films at the cinema and neither know nor care about how they're made. Others want to dig deeper. Neither approach is inherently superior, in my opinion.

(As for the "films have been trending downwards lately" argument...I have heard that made about every decade since the 60s. It's possible that you might be able to substantiate it to a certain extent by picking and choosing what subsections of film you're looking at eg Hollywood big-budget films, but by and large I think if you're willing to look there's always good stuff out there. I generally find it very hard to keep up with all the films I'd like to see, and even if all film production worldwide ceased tomorrow I still doubt that I'd have time to see every film I want to see out of those which have already been made. Cast your search a little wider and you'll likely find more films to your taste.)
 
I have a certain fondness for the 80's era of films. This is likely, because I grew up in that era. I often think, well, they don't make em like they used to(as I fondly recall SW, Goonies, Ghostbusters, Trading Places, Indiana Jones, ET). I do think I see it through rose-tinted glasses. There were plenty of of OTT stupido action flicks. Just as bad as today.

I see the nineties as the beginning of the FX OTT era that really culminated in Transformers. Those films are almost the polar opposite of the 80's films, but I feel many films that are coming out now have started to push away from style over substance - I think the Marvel films of late have been great - as has the Batman stuff and hopefully new DC.

Anyway, to the original poster, no. I think we have a very varied palate on this site - you've only got to look at some of the passionate arguments over say something like Prometheus or the Dark Knight Rises. I think if we have issues with films, we tend to sink into FE mode - how can I improve this? But for me, like others have suggested, I tend to pick carefully what I want to watch and try very hard to avoid stuff I know I will dislike.

I enjoyed these films as they are: I loved Dredd, The Dark Knight Rises, The Hobbit, Avengers, Cloud Atlas, Looper, Zero Dark Thirty, Argo, Moonrise Kingdom....the list goes on as I watched loads of films last year. The key was picking ones I knew I'd like and fortunately with this new fangled interwebs - I can find out what other people think and base my preferences on that :)

I did a BA(Hons) in Media - I used to find it hard to disengage the 'Why they made it this way/shot it that way/lit it that way", but eventually I disengaged that mode.
 
Bad films like bad music have always been made, its just we filter everything down to the good that we often forget about the bad, unless its sooo bad that you can't help to remember it (i.e mac & me.)

I usually if I like a film, its based on the theatrical release, but I get bored or fed up of certain aspects over the course of re-watching said film, my first viewing is purely visceral and for entertainment, its on the second, third or fourth viewing I'm nitpicking and stating how stupid yay scene is.

Maybe i'm on my own here, but it seems the more actioned packed and setpiece heavy a film is, the more it seems to need tweaking, I never watched something like The Perks of Being a wallflower and thought 'this scene doesn't work, they should remove it.' Though I could maybe see how someone would want to put 500 Days of summer in chonological order, not to improve the film, in fact the pacing would probably ruin it, but it might be interesting just to see the end result.
 
Omaru1982 said:
Bad films like bad music have always been made, its just we filter everything down to the good that we often forget about the bad, unless its sooo bad that you can't help to remember it (i.e mac & me.)
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This is a very good observation and definitely true. The human mind is funny like that.
 
Interesting thread!

On the quality of movies then and now... For me, the quality of movies overall has remained intact, but within various genres, there seems to be a discrepancy. Big budget/mainstream movies seem to have suffered the most. A few decades back, these blockbusters were not just conveyor belt factory products aimed at the lowest common denominator. There was more freedom, creativity and ingenuity allowed - Risks were encouraged, and the industry wasn't terrified yet. Mr Plinkett sums up this shift really well in one of his Star Wars prequel reviews... I can't recall which one.

Continuing the music analogy, the music hits of the 60's/70's/80's seemed to have originality and creativity in spades, but for some reason, since the early 90's, pop music got cynical, and has felt like the same old auto tuned drivel with divas wailing that they can't live without their boyfriends. So now you have to look left of centre to find the great songs. Many bands are creating amazing music that draws on the past, but recreates it in really interesting and fresh ways.

So within the movie industry, it seems the same thing has happened. Many of the blockbuster films today feel like that cynical money grab we see in the music industry, but there are still great directors creating fantastic films on the fringes of the mainstream (or even within it). QT, JJ Abrams, Chris Nolan, PT Anderson and Del Toro just to name a few of my favourites. Their films arguably stand up to any films of the past eras.

As for watching the films with a critical eye, I agree that this can sometimes cause a film to be less enjoyable (when others around seem to be lapping it up), but on the whole I'd say, like [MENTION=10512]geminigod[/MENTION], a critical eye enhances the movie experience, good or bad, and makes a film so much more thrilling when all those pieces click into place.

P.S. we still have all the old films too. Nostalgia in 1080p! Good times :)
 
Well, I think that for most of us (me anyway), fanediting is less about fixing bad movies and more about taking films in a different, interesting new direction. Certainly fixing subpar elements to the movies is a large aspect of it, but not 100%. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we have become much more critical than we probably should be, but not in a bad way, we just look at movies from every angle. From the second we walk out of the theater we are cutting the film in our minds. Does it make the movie less enjoyable? I don't think so. I think it makes it more enjoyable. You get to recapture the magic of seeing a movie for the first time every time you see it, because you're always seeing it in new ways.
 
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